What Matters to You in Scouting History?

[Miki101]

I have been a student of scouting history for some time and have wondered as to whether any troops tell the stories from the founding of Scouting or of the BSA. I know that I have told many a story to my boys as various topics come up in order to give them an historical perspective as to how the program developed and why it still matters.

 

Are there any particular topics with regard to Erenst Thompson Seton or Dan Beard or James West or William Boyce or the American Boy Scouts or Baden-Powell or of the founding of the BSA/Scouting that are lacking in the print media available to a Scouter, that you would want to know more about?

 

I would be interested in having your feedback as to the type of information that would be interesting to you. I am actucally quite obsessed with expanding my knowledge base and sometimes I need help in determining the direction of my research.

 

YIS,

dave scott

[SemperParatus]

I always thought a serious, in-depth biography of James West is warranted and could make for fascinating reading (at least for scouters).

 

[Kahuna]

As a fellow certified scouting history nut, there are many topics of scouting history that interest me a lot.

 

Baden-Powell has always been a hero figure to me. I realize that he was, like all the rest of us, flawed in some ways, but a hero nonetheless. There's plenty of material out there about his history and I'm not sure we really need any more, but we do need to get some of the stories out to to our Scouts. Years ago, I did an impersonation of B-P, using a combination of material from actual speeches that he made. I had a B-P uniform made up and learned to do basic stage makeup a British accent. I found that the presentation resonated with boys as if they had met the Founder. Adults as well. I also made it a point to tell boys around the campfire the story of Mafeking and some of the other episodes from his life. I would really like to see more of his life related to boys in the form of stories.

 

I also enjoyed the Scouting Magazine series "The Way It Was," that told some stories of the early days of scouting in an interesting way.

As you know, I'm working on a book about (primarily) the early professionals. Some of their stories show an amazing dedication to a brand new movement. They worked incredibly long hours, seven days a week, spent all summer at camp and some had part-time jobs to earn enough money to support their families. During the Great Depression, funding dropped enormously from sources like the Community Chest and yet they soldiered on.

 

I also like to see displays of old Scout uniforms and insignia and find that to be interesting to kids and adults.

[Miki101]

Hi Semper,

 

I think that you have something there. As I have found, there is relatively little known about West and I look forward to making more information about him public.

 

Now Kahuna, I am interested in knowing more about your book. If you would care to contact me offline that would be fine also. I would like to know (the information that you are willing to share at this point in your project) about your research and preliminary findings. My studies do not go into the Scouting Professional in the sense that you have indicated, but I do know have information about them in the West/ National Office sense.

 

 

[SWScouter]

I would like to see more information on people that had a big impact on the BSA and its development besides the four you mention. I'd especially enjoy reading more of William Hillcourt. There's some good info here on scouter.com but it's fairly brief. I would also be interested in tidbits of E. Urner Goodman and Carroll A. Edson, founders of the OA. I guess there are two books available now about Dr. Goodman and the OA, I'll have to take a look.

[Kahuna]

I, too, would like to read more about Bill Hillcourt. Although I knew him, I don't know much more about his history than what Terry has written on this site. I certainly know he had more energy at 87 than most people do when they're fifty! I have a picture of him snorkeling at a spring in Central Florida in the late 1980's after I took him on a canoe trip up the Wekiva River. I have video of him talking with a group of Scouts and leaders at a friends home in Florida, talking about why scouting was such a great program and expressing his loathing for skill awards. He always said (ca. 1987) that we should gather up all the skill awards, put them in boxcars and store them at some remote desert site. Then we would wait 20 years and offer them for sale (Ebay would have been perfect!) to collectors, thereby enriching the BSA. On the same video is a clip of Bill teaching a song to a bunch of Scouts at a meeting.

 

Bill was born in 1900, which he recognized was the last year of the 19th Century. He wondered if he might live long enough to make the 21st and be able to live in 3 centuries. I was betting he would, but he didn't quite get there. He was a great man and only wish I could have had the experience with him that Terry did.

[Eamonn]

At one time in the UK knowledge of early Scouting history was a requirement for advancement.Most of the information that was put out by the Scout Association to help Scouts meet the requirement dealt with Baden Powell.

There are a lot of Scout Groups in England that claim to be the first or one of the first Troops, but no one is really sure who was first.

When I was a young Scout our District Chairman was a little old man. A super nice man Frank Colebert JP OBE. He was old when I was a Scout and was still active when I left England 20 years ago. Frank had photos of himself with Baden Powell. When he died he left everything to the District, he left his house and his collection of books, many were first editions. The amount he left was a very tidy sum.

Frank like a good number of people his age made Scouting their lives work. A lot of these guys never married and seemed happy to devote themselves to Scouting. Maybe they were kinder times, but I know that I never seen anything odd about this and there was never a word about them being homosexual or different. In fact we all seemed to think more of them for their devotion to Scouting.

Frank and a lot of people like him were the pioneers of real Scouting in England. Many were from the upper classes.I of course have no idea what their motivation was for doing what they did, but these guys were very respectable people who gave freely of their time and their money to Scouting. They also gave their name to Scouting, which seemed in some way at that time to add a certain amount of respectability to Scouting.

While BP was the media superstar for Scouting and he did bring a lot of his wealthy and titled friends into the movement, it is a shame that we didn't do a better job of recording what was really happening back home in the Counties and Districts, while BP was out and about promoting Scouting.

Even on this side of the pond, we have people who did a lot and gave a lot to Scouting, but as time passes they seem to just be forgotten.

Outside of our Council Service Center we have a statue of a Boy Scout, if you look really closely you will find a small plaque that tells you that the statue and a lot of the money that was donated to build the service center came from a General Scott. I was talking to our Scout Executive about people donating to Scouting and I asked if General Scott had any family. He had no idea who General Scott was. I took him outside to look at the statue. He said that he has walked past it everyday and paid no attention to it.

We really need to look for some way of recording the history of our Districts and Councils for the future. Many units do this but sadly once the unit folds the history gets left in the meeting hall and in time someone does a cleaning job and the history ends up in the landfill.

Eamonn.

[Fuzzy Bear]

Over the years, I have wavered on the validity of some of the Scouting histories I have read. Some stories are slanted to appear seamless and without incident. Most of the time the stories are shortened to make a point just to elevate Scouting. I feel that it is important to let Scouts know that their history was made up of men in a new movement that struggled for its' very existence. People made mistakes and good decisions and came up with a program that needs little make-up. Scouting became bigger than life and better than most of what was written about it. It is that short-coming that drives people to search for more. Many feel that there has to be some secret or person or incident that made it so magical. Somehow, Scouting took on a life of its' own. The stories are more of a backdrop to the actual experience itself. It is as if Scouting is alive and the people that were here are still here, around the campfire sitting with us in the night with the stars.

 

It is important that Scouts know that it was men that did this and that there were struggles. They need to know because they will one day take over and it will be their turn to struggle but it is those ideals of Scouting that keep people focused so they can keep the fire burning for those that come after and we will be watching.

 

FB

[Kahuna]

I've often wondered why it is that people are so willing to assume that heroes are without flaw and to dump them when they find out they are not. I think it's only normal that an organization like the BSA tries to cull it's history and remember the heroic and forget the petty squabbling and personal animosities. We all wish it could be different in any organization, but we are all human and we all have our reasons for doing what we do. The magic of scouting is, I think, in the fact that it started itself, as B-P said "unseen." It has continued to attract volunteers and boys in members that are wonderous. It also attracts people like many of us, who have stayed active long after their kids were grown up.

 

Most of the bickering and squabbling and infighting of the early days of scouting has no real relevance to the basic history, but I see no reason that kids shouldn't be allowed to understand that not everything is perfect and that we have to look at the world with that understanding.