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Venturing publications

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I firmly believe that the monsterous Ventuing Leader Manual is too big and hard to understand. I think that Venturing should publish an

Advisors and Crew Committee Handbook, Continue with the Venturing Handbook and Ranger Handbook for youth. Maybe publish

Venturing program guides for Outdoor, Arts and Hobbies, Sports, and Religious

Life clusters. Sea Scouts should consider a pamphlet for ships that

do not follow the traditional ship program. Venturing should publish a distinctive dress identity question and answer guide. Crew Officer

Program guide

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Correct me if I am wrong, but if Venturing was being conistent between its program and its literature the "leader" manual would be targeted at the youth leadership, since the adults are supposed to advise and support the youth.


Perhaps 3 manuals relating to crew operations would be appropriate:

Advisor's Manual

Crew Committee Guide

Youth Leader Handbook


Your idea of literature to support each program emphasis and each bronze award is also logical.


However, I don't think there needs to be a traditional and non-traditional form of Sea Scouting. There is Sea Scouting, and then there is the rest of Venturing. If a crew wants to take on a nautical interest without really be a Sea Scout Ship that is fine, but there is no need for some sort of extra material to support that. After all, they could quite easily take the Sea Scouting materials and the Venturing materials and figure out how to mix and match the parts to create their own program.


Now all you need to do is figure out what the contents of these various publications should be (just a very short outline of critical information) and start letting the various BSA people responsible for this know about your ideas. (I would imagine there are both professional staff and volunteer committee people who would be good targets for some well crafted letters setting out your ideas.)


Good luck to you.

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Since the Venturing Leaders Manual is in the form of a loose leaf pages drilled for three ring binders, if you find the manual to big why not just separate the sections you mentioned and put them in their own binder?


As far as difficult to understan... perhaps you could quote a passage that you find confusing, just as an example.


Sea Scouts should consider a pamphlet for ships that do not follow the traditional ship program.


I haven't the faintest idea what that means or why you would want a manual that isn't related to the actual program.Perhaps you could be more specific.



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I do not know if you Bob or Proud Eagle are involved with Venturing but from your sarcasm of Dana I think not. As a Venturing advisor for many years now the program can be confusing to new leaders because the leaders manual is an all encompassing shell of generalities rather than a set program of methodology like in Boy Scouts and Cub Scouts. We leaders are to create the detailed program based on the interests of the crew. National is still deciding what direction they want Venturing to go, it is not supposed to be like the old Explorer program. There are no uniform requirements, the crew can select and design their own or have none at all. A crew can be an high adventure crew or a chess club crew. Most crews are coed and work on the same advancement awards but they are not required or even an essential part of the program, according to Venture leader training. I have taken training on this program locally and at Philmont and these points come from those trainings. Unfortunately because of the largely self creative part of this program many new crews rarely last more than one or two years. Many of the unsuccessful units fail because advisors either try to make the unit an older boy scout troop or they lack the creative ability to design a program to appeal to the interests of older teens, especially a coed group.


So in a nutshell Venturing manuals will never be in the same specific detail as in other scouting programs by design, it is the nature of the beast.

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Nowhere was Proud Eagle or I sarcastic. Proud eagle agreed with dana and offered options as did I. I also asked him to clarify commenbts that were not specific.


I am familiar with the program and have lead the training for Venturing leaders as well. I do not find the leaders handbook difficult to navigate. It is well marked and easy to read. Unlike some other handbooks its size is easily managable by dividing the book by sections into separate notebooks.


Do you know what Dana means by "Sea Scouts should consider a pamphlet for ships that do not follow the traditional ship program." Baden?


The most common reason that I have seen for crews failing is that they were started for the wrong reason with the wrong goals. Not because of the size or readability of the manual.


If a unit that is having problems with older scouts staying in because of a weak program, expect to put them in a different uniform or none at all under the same poor leadership and their problems will be solved, find out fairly quickly how wrong they were. Scouts will leave a boring program no matter if it is called a troop or a crew.




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I certainly did not have sarcasm in mind.


I really do stand by a literal reading of everything I had posted above.


While I have never attempted to start a new Crew, I can easily see the point about many failing. Many troops and packs fail in a similar amount of time, usually because COs start units without knowing what they are getting into and unit leaders don't use the program and instead do something else that doesn't work as well. As to weather or not it is a good thing for Venturing to be an open ended program, I don't really know. Maybe it would do better with set program, maybe that would only make it worse. I don't know.


I do know that Venturing is a terribly misunderstood program. Of coarse all of BSAs programs with names starting with "V" are misunderstood. Such is life.

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What I am referring to in that Sea Scouts should publish a pamphlet to ships that want a more non-traditional form of Sea Scouting maybe just a Seamanship Interest Crew or a Scuba Crew but the youth in these two crews may not be interested in the Venturing Recognition

System like a B option. Also simplify the Venturing publications

create Programs helps for the clusters 1 for Religious Life 1 for

Outdoors and 1 for Sports and 1 for Arts and Hobbies it seems like Venturing is just concerned with the outdoor program and does not care if the rest of the program does well or not. And I am aware of the popularity of Outdoor Adventure Venturing. Also a crew committee

manual and a advisor's manual as well. Simplify Venturing.

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The Venturing Leaders Manual is a step by step written for YOUTH primarily and adults secondarily. Almost all materials from the Venturing division are written for teens first.


Most Venturing units do not have the resources to purchase several copies of manuals, handbooks, etc. They spend their money on program.


The Sea Scout manual does not serve to provide all the answers and support material for the program. It's a small fortune for a skipper (like me!) to own and keep the resources necessary to support my ship! I rely on professional mariners and avid boaters to assist in program support. Much like a boy would find a merit badge counselor to support his race to Eagle, we use consultants to achieve the end results.


Venturing is about variety and purpose centered on what the chartered organization can provide and what members want as well as are willing to gather to support their goals.


If you grew up in Scouting, you'll be looking for a package of deliverables that has been refined and honed to a precise result.


Venturing could not possibly meet that need. The nature of the program is that one scuba crew in the Pacific Northwest would not have the same needs as one in Maine or one in the Gulf of Mexico. However, they have one thing in common: arts and hobbies or sports bronze can be adapted to fit their program in a heartbeat. Even a sea scout bronze could be earned (if they're a sea scout unit).


One group of hunters in the mid-west would not look the same as avid backpackers in Alaska. They apply the people, program resources, and opportunities with very different outcomes.


It's a wonderful program for anyone with the patience and vision to adapt. (Yep, that's meant as a challenge!)

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Sea Scouting is a traditional program.


If you want some sort of non-traditional maritime Venturing Crew (not a Sea Scout Ship), and you want literature for it, look to Venturing itself not the Sea Scouting program (which is a subdivision of Venturing) to create such literature.


If you want traditional Sea Scouting, be a Ship. If you want something else, do like everyone else in Venturing and be a Crew that figures it out for themselves. (This isn't to say a Ship must be completely traditional, but rather it makes no sense to provide support for two different types of Sea Scouting, particularly when Venturing already exists as a create your own program system.)


Listen, I personally am not looking for anything at all out of Venturing. That is because I don't do Venturing. Maybe at some point I will, but at the moment I can't do it. I don't have the time, and even if I did I have no desire. I like serving Scouting. I do it reasonably well. When I need to advocate to someone outside BSA I stick up for Venturing as well as anyone does, but when sitting around the campfire I am going to advocate for Scouting.


Oh, as for needing a lot of literature, I think I completely understand. I have a small library of things just in my personal collection. And like so many others I wear more than one hat and so need more than one set of literature... then there is the camping equipment, uniforms, gas, oil, wear and tear on the car (darn flat tire!)...(This message has been edited by Proud Eagle)

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Gentlemen please let me clarify my recent ravings, first of all I am in Venturing as a unit commissioner. I am not outside the scouting movement. I am a person who enjoys Venturing, Sea Scouting and Exploring. About the publications this is what I mean. Crew Program Guides, Non-Traditional Ship Planning or Program Guide. the 5 clusters of Venturing would publish seperate program guides for each of the five clusters. The only

difference would be Sea Scouting which has it's own manual.

Then there would be a Venturing Handbook and the Ranger Handbook

also an Advisor and Committee Manual which could also have a section included for Sea Scout Leaders. Venturing Handbook would have all the general information concerning the program and the Crew Program Guides would be for each of the other clusters and Sea Scouts or Aquatic Interest Venturing could use the Non-Traditional Ship Planning or Program Guide .

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