Eamonn 61 Posted July 21, 2003 Share Posted July 21, 2003 A Scout in foster care is left at camp without a ride home. Even though he is aware that he is breaking the rules, a leader gives the Scout a ride home in his car.(More details are in a posting: Twenty Lashes With A Wet Wood Badge.) How do you deal with the Leader? Link to post Share on other sites
Fat Old Guy 11 Posted July 21, 2003 Share Posted July 21, 2003 Kick him out of the Scouting as an example to anyone else who shows compassion and uses common sense and doesn't follow BSA rules. What this leader should have done, is called for another leader from his unit to come meet him at the camp, wait the three hours for the leader to get there parked at least 300 yards down the road from the boy so he could keep an eye on him, drive the Scout home with the second leader and then return to camp so the second leader can retrieve his car. Fortunately, we've never had anything close to this happen in my troop, before we leave camp we know that everyone has a ride. On the other hand, Scouts have been stranded at troop meetings, we just shoot those kids and bury the body in the woods. Link to post Share on other sites
AK-Eagle 19 Posted July 21, 2003 Share Posted July 21, 2003 There was a line used widely in WWII "I was just following orders" There is a fine line between being following the rules and common sense. I woudn't go after the leader that gave the scout a ride but look hard at the leader and unit who left that scout behind without supervision. They are the ones who put you into the situation. We can monday morning quarterback this to death. The outcome of this was good FOG I very nearly took you serious on your response.. must be too late on this sunday evening :-) Phillip Martin AK-Eagle Scoutmaster Troop 21 Juneau, Alaska Link to post Share on other sites
ozemu 10 Posted July 21, 2003 Share Posted July 21, 2003 what is the relevance of his being in foster care? Link to post Share on other sites
Fat Old Guy 11 Posted July 21, 2003 Share Posted July 21, 2003 "what is the relevance of his being in foster care?" Despite what we see on TV (telly?), foster parents don't always give a hoot about their charges. Some do and those are the ones who get the awards, the news stories and the made-for-TV movies. Far too many just want the check that comes with the child and if they have to do any real parenting, fuggetaboutit. "Pick the kid up at camp? Nah, I'm watching the game, let someone else bring him home." Unfortunately, we can also find in type of behavior in natural parents as well. Link to post Share on other sites
Scoutmaster Ron 12 Posted July 21, 2003 Share Posted July 21, 2003 Personally,....I probably would have broken the rules but I would have made sure I told the camp director, my scoutmaster, committe chair with times of when I left and arrived at different citys Link to post Share on other sites
bt01 10 Posted July 21, 2003 Share Posted July 21, 2003 Did not have a ride home???? He was in foster care?? Where where the adults giving foster care?? Are you not telling us something?? Link to post Share on other sites
bt01 10 Posted July 21, 2003 Share Posted July 21, 2003 I am going to open the can of worms. I can from a troop that this would not happen. Everyone had a ride to the event and home from the event, no questions asked. If this Scout had a ride to the event what happen to his ride home. FRom what I am reading into this event the leaders kid did not go to the event in question. If the leaders son was in the car then there was three in the car. If there was a problem getting the scout home then there was a problem for everyone in the troop to go home. I do not call this leader dumb. He had to do what he had to do. The other leaders left him alone to deal with the problem. The other leaders must also take the YP program with him. Link to post Share on other sites
LauraT7 13 Posted July 22, 2003 Share Posted July 22, 2003 hmmm - without all the details - a tough call. Why? because we have a pair of boys, who are good friends of my son's and who live in the apartment complex across the road from us. they are in and out of my house, (along with their older brother who is NOT a scout) many times a week - including overnight. The parents work nights, and these boys are responsible for getting themselves to alot of meetings and events. So - as a 'parent' I give them rides to and from meetings - when I can't, sometimes other parents or leaders have picked them up 'on the way'. When I get to the meeting - i put on my ASM 'hat' and am no longer a 'parent". BUT this is well known and arranged in advance with the full knowledge and consent of the parents and other people in the troop. usually the boys are together - sometimes one has other plans and it's only me, my son and one. As we are good personal friends with the whole family - the boys are often over here, or i have given them rides, even when my son is not around (at his Dad's or Grandma's). With the camp situation - there HAD to be other boys being picked up from camp - why couldn't another set of parents with other boys have given him a ride? even if they had no room for his 'stuff'- the SM could have carried "stuff" to make room for this boy as a passenger in another car with more boys in it. We are lucky to have a troop bus. It is a troop policy that EVERY boy rides the bus to ALL events that we use the bus - even if his parent is driving another vehicle up. (I often pull trailers for the troop - but my son and his friends ALWAYS ride the bus - no exceptions) When we do not use the bus and use personal vehicles, I will admit that we often do NOT have two leaders in each vehicle that carries boys - but we do travel within sight of each other, stop together, eat together, and maintain contact by walkie or cell phones. and it is NEVER 1 leader, 1 boy - always multiple boys in the vehicle together. Pickups carry equipment and never passengers. I also agree with BTP's comments - rides should have been arranged before GOING to camp - But emergencies and miscommunications DO happen - maybe Foster Dad had a flat tire and no cell phone? Also, the other scout leaders should not have left the 1 leader and 1 boy - this should have been discussed and decided as a "what if?" before they were left with no other options. Link to post Share on other sites
ozemu 10 Posted July 22, 2003 Share Posted July 22, 2003 Okay FOG but I dont know anything about the incident that seems to have given rise to the question. The question remains (this was given as a hypothetical) what difference does it matter who or if he has parents? As an SM my actions would be the same. They are ALL in my care. I act in loco parentis and with a duty of care and that boy would not be alone under any circumstances - I dont care who the parents are...or arent. I have and will give rides to Scouts whos parents have forgotten to pick them up. Or otherwise get the Scout home...I pick up hitch hikers too - if they are walking or I think it safer that they dont hitch. Regardless of what rules say I see my moral duty as more important. Besides it is my duty to know each Scouts parents and to establish a relationship of trust and community such that they consider me to be a significant person in the Scouts life. I wont break that trust. My honour - duty to God and to country - help other people - keep Scout laws. Nothing there about (BSA) rules. I keep them but they are not my guiding light in extenuating circumstances.(This message has been edited by ozemu) Link to post Share on other sites
Fat Old Guy 11 Posted July 22, 2003 Share Posted July 22, 2003 "Okay FOG but I dont know anything about the incident that seems to have given rise to the question. The question remains (this was given as a hypothetical) what difference does it matter who or if he has parents?" That's a good question but If you read the original thread (... lashes with a wet Wood Badge), the foster parents in question had no interest in coming to get the Scout. Some might say that they exhibited stereotypical foster parent behavior. I've seen both good and lousy foster parents out there but he bad always overshadow the good. Link to post Share on other sites
SagerScout 10 Posted July 22, 2003 Share Posted July 22, 2003 Well, I met a foster parent this past week, an ASM volunteering at camp. He was a really big guy, not fat exactly (although he complained about his weight) but just BIG and barrel-chested. After several chats about his Downs foster son and the little baby they took in, it became clear that his chest had to be that big to contain his heart. Link to post Share on other sites
scoutldr 732 Posted July 23, 2003 Share Posted July 23, 2003 eamonn, quit beating yourself up. You lucked out...nothing happened. Learn from it and move on. None of us are perfect and we can't follow every rule every time. Link to post Share on other sites
ozemu 10 Posted July 23, 2003 Share Posted July 23, 2003 Eammon I just read the other post - first slow day in a while. Realise I should have posted in the other thread but habitually I only look at this discussion. You confused me. And now Ive got some back reading to do! Link to post Share on other sites
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