Volunteer Agenda V DE Agenda

[Eamonn 61]

For the most part I like to think of us volunteers working hand in hand with the DE. A partnership that when it works well, make the magic of Scouting come to life.

Having said that.

There have been times when I was a unit volunteer, when I have been willing to put the wants and needs of the unit before everything else and push ahead with only the well being of the unit in sight.

This was especially true when the Ship was just starting and I was trying to get things set up in such a way as to ensure that the health and future of the Ship would be safe-guarded.

I enlisted a lot of help from people who in the past I'd recruited and enlisted to help with the District.

Without wishing to come off sounding egotistical, these people did what they did because I'd asked them to do it and when I moved from serving at the District level to the unit level they kinda came along with me.

There have been times as a volunteer serving at the District level that I refused to participate or be part of something which I seen as being wrong.

At times this put the DE between a rock and a hard place as on one hand she had her boss telling her what needed to be done and on the other hand she had the District Chairman saying "Over my dead body". This was especially true when it came to signing up an entire HS class as Venturers with the DE being listed as the Adviser.

 

Over the years I have worked along side DE's that I have liked a lot and some that I didn't.

To be honest I do believe that volunteers know far more about the program than most if not all the DE's I have ever met.

I believe that we the volunteers really have the good of the kids in the communities where we live a lot more at heart than the DE who is going to be around for a few years and if things work out will look to be promoted and move on elsewhere.

Eamonn.

[BadenP 93]

And that Eamonn is exactly why DE vs Volunteer will always be a quasi adversarial one. The DE is trained first and foremost to become entrenched in his district and hit up the big money people, next is to create as many new units as possible, exsisting units needs and desires take a back seat they are not top priorities. National figures after about three years the DE has pretty much reached his peek and probably drained the economic resources of a district so they are transferred to another council and a new DE is appointed to start the process all over again, they figure a district will respond better to a new face. That is the process of professional scouting, you give the volunteer only minimally, the DE's are there to raise money and create new units.

[Hal_Crawford 15]

BadenP is spot on about the differing agendas of the council and the volunteers. It should also be noted that DE is an entry level position. DEs are often in their first job out of college and find themselves squeezed between the SE and the volunteers in ways they never imagined. Some have no scouting experience while others were scouts as youth but they quickly learn that their job bears no resemblance to scouting as they knew it. The council is all about numbers, scouts, units, FOS$. The volunteers are all about the program though sometimes it is all about preserving their image of the program as it existed in the 50's, 60's, 70's or whenever they were scouts. Scouters are generally very dedicated but they can also be stubborn, curmudgeonly, egotistical and not above threatening to reduce their FOS donations if they aren't getting their way. Too often we forget the scout law when we are dealing with district/council pros. (I've observed all of this from the volunteer side, I have never been a pro though I was a UC for long enough to know that I didn't want to be anything but a unit scouter, no grey loops for me).

 

It is tough for the young DE to sort out who he serves and how to serve them. Coupled with the challenges, the young DE quickly learns that the salary doesn't go very far, at least not in the DC area. Sadly, many don't last long. Scouters bemoan the difficulty getting and keeping a good DE but never acknowledge that to some degree the problem is us. If you get a DE that shows even a glimmer of talent for the job, be kind, nurture him/her as he/she might be the best your ever going to get.

 

Just my 2 cents.

Hal

[Eamonn 61]

While I might be 100% of base?

I couldn't help feel that the new leader in the original thread was not getting a fair shake from the DE.

I feel bad for him.

Not only did it seem from what was posted that he wasn't getting the support that he needed, but was also been led up the garden path by the DE.

Maybe the DE just didn't know any better? Or maybe he had his own agenda?

 

We have a new DE.

I like him. He really seems to want to do a good job.

He has just started year two of being on the job.

He came on board about a month before the new SE came on board. So both of them are kinda still finding their feet.

To be honest both the new DE and the SE seem a little "Up-tight" to my way of thinking!

I don't think I have ever seen them without a suit and tie, unless they are in uniform. While this might be the BSA dress code? In this area meeting with someone for a drink wearing a opened neck shirt and a pair of casual pants, seems to put people more at ease.

The Council also has some very strong minded people on the Board who have been around for a long time and are fairly well known in Scouting circles?? These guys tend to see what is happening (At least on paper!) in "Their Council" as some kind of a reflection of what they are doing for Scouts and Scouting. These guys want to look good and demand results! They have in the past put pressure on one SE to move and fired another!! Add to this they know all the tricks and short cuts. Which at times can undermine the authority of the SE or force him into pushing his staff into doing things that might not be 100% right.

Sometimes it's not always the professionals who are at fault.

Sad thing about some of these guys is that they are not as young as they used to be! They really don't know how much things have changed and are locked into doing things the way they used to be done.

Eamonn.

[skeptic 999]

Over the years I have watched almost every young DE that had a good youth scouting background resign. Why? Because, as noted, it is not what they signed up for. Fortunately, many of them have then become volunteers as their time allowed. The second factor in our area is simply the cost of living; what I would have considered a good salary at their age is no where nearly enough to sustain them unless they have other income sources. I just sent a letter to Mr. Mazzuca this past week with some concerns and thoughts; and this was one of them. It seems to me that National really needs to recognize that there are areas in which some sort of additional "cost of living" pay needs to be considered.

 

The other thing noted already is how often the numbers are the most important thing for pro's. Too often in our district, with its turnstile pro's, I have seen too many older, established units run into problems and sort of die on the vine while across the district they spend resources on starting or trying to start new units which fail at an alarming rate. One would hope that long time, stable units would be the first priority, but of course they usually are not.

 

JMTCW

[Eagle92 110]

Being a a former pro, I can tell you it is a very fine line between what the SE and the vols. want, especially if you are a former district vol and you know why the vols want XYZ and how in the long term, that will be better for Scouting. As stated previously some pros, especially SEs and DFSs only look to the short-term, b/c they will be leaving in 3-5 years. They feel that someone else can fix the problems.

 

Yep the demands are extremely stressful, and yes alot of us "youngins" leave. For a variety of reasons. While some do leave because it is not as they envisioned the job, another factor is the money. I can tell you that I had coworkers and friends leave the profession and double, and in one case triple, their salary.But the NUMBER 1 reason I've seen pros leave, both young ones and experienced ones, was the stress the job places on the family. I know my wife threatened to divorce me with in 3 mos of being married b/c of the schedule; nightly meetings, approx 2 weekend/month camping, conferences, and her favorite the phone calls at 9:50PM and 7:01AM (all my volunteers signed a card stating they will not call us after 10PM ort before 7AM as their wedding gift).

 

If you have a De who is doing their job, taking care of the units and makign the program go, please, PLEASE be kind and take care of them. They are truly worht their weight in gold.

[Beavah 205]

Yah, my problem is that the DE (and often da SE) has an impossible job.

 

It's set up as an enormous conflict of interest. Their legal and moral duty is to the council corporation and its directors and members (the unit sponsors). But they're evaluated base on their national numbers, and their upward mobility is similarly based on their loyalty to da national system. Heck, it's da textbook definition of conflict of interest!

 

Add to that, these guys are put into fundraisin' roles with near zero training and support. If they came from out of the area, they also have no contacts. The fundraisin' is primarily to pay their salaries and make their own evaluation numbers, and often ain't tied to serving kids or units or Scouting - yet another conflict.

 

Da system is an ethical morass and a complete mess. We take young folks who care about service and scouting and chew through 'em like raw meat. Maybe I'm old fashioned, but when I hire an entry level person my intention is to mentor 'em and have a growth path in mind for 'em. They're both an investment and a moral obligation, eh?

 

Saddest thing is that this dysfunctional system is tough even for a competent, responsible council board to break. Takes a lot of chudzpah and a willingness to leave some bodies on da floor, as Eamonn suggests.

 

That's not the way it should be.

 

Beavah

 

[scoutldr 732]

Once, a long time ago, I looked at reinventing myself and becoming a Pro. Being a reasonably astute human with excellent critical thinking skills, I realized it was a no-win job. Lots of responsibility, but no authority. Job success depends on the good will and cooperation of the volunteers, the economy, and the good heartedness of donors. None of which the Pro has any control over. I have always been friendly and helpful when working with my DE(s)...but I know lots of scouters who won't give them the time of day. We have had a couple of "model scouts", (Eagle, Vigil, Lodge Chief, Camp Program Director, etc) graduate from college and come back as a DE. They didn't last more than a year. Being a pro is not "scouting"...it's an outside sales job, and you live or die by your numbers. Add to that all the program jobs you have to do if the vols won't do it. No, thanks.

[OldGreyEagle 5]

I am not sure why any District would want a bright energetic talented and charismatic DE, if they have all those traits they will be gone to bigger and better things so fast all you have is memories.

 

In 12 years our Distrct has had 10 DE's and the latest one is closing in on 9 months and the pool is whether she will last 9 months more. We all see bigger and better things for her ahead.

[OldGreyEagle 5]

I am not sure why any District would want a bright energetic talented and charismatic DE, if they have all those traits they will be gone to bigger and better things so fast all you have is memories.

 

In 12 years our Distrct has had 10 DE's and the latest one is closing in on 9 months and the pool is whether she will last 9 months more. We all see bigger and better things for her ahead.

[Eagle92 110]

I can tell you why I stayeda s long as I did, and at times regret stepping down as a pro. The comraderie I had with my volunteers was awesome, as they would do just about anythign I asked. One example was that I was short one unit, but knew a pack that was about to graduate some webelos and wanted to start a new troop. I was able to get them to complete the paperwork completed and turned in because of the relationship I had with the vols.

 

I also loved workign with the district committee and seeing them develope some great programs for our youth. I always loved going to an activity, walking around and talkign to scouts, parents, and leaders.

 

If it wasn't for the council leadership at the time, I would have stayed around. Heck I did the 6 month rule and went on to work in supply, b/c I loved scouting and wanted to make a difference.

[DenZero 10]

While reading the thread titled DE Performance, this thought hit me, and I think it belongs in this thread instead.

 

Why is it that District Execs are under such pressure to start new units, while established units are left to die on the vine?

 

In the area served by the district my pack is in, there are probably 2/3 as many units as there were 40 years ago, just as there are about 2/3 as many schools in the area. Long ago it was 3 districts that combined to form one, but other than by combining districts, there has never been a real increase in the number of units. The demographics really dont justify adding more units. If anything, based on my lack of success with recruiting boys and parents into a long-established pack, there are probably still too many units in the district.

 

Still, the district expends a lot of resources trying to start new units where there is no demand. For example, they spent the past 3 years trying to start a new pack 1/2 mile from our dying pack because they had found a willing chartered org., but the unit hasnt gone far without any boys or parent volunteers.

 

Unless an area is actually underserved by units, wouldnt it make more sense for the DE to be evaluated by how well the established units are supported, and not just by wasting time trying to start unwanted units?

 

 

[NealOnWheels 73]

DenZero,

 

The reason I started the "DE Performance" thread was there seems to be a lot of complaining about District Executives focusing on fundraising and starting new units but not supporting existing units. I wanted to see what unit leaders expected from their District Executive. I got very few specific expecations.

 

You say your Pack is dying. Would your Pack be better off if you had more support from your District Executive? If so exactly what would you like him or her to do?

[DenZero 10]

What could our DE do for our unit?

 

At this point, its probably too late. The only thing that the district could do to save packs like ours would be to establish territories for each pack so that large packs cant so easily expand their recruiting range, squashing smaller nearby packs. But this would involve stepping on the toes of the largest pack in the district, and coincidentally the pack with the largest FOS contributions.

 

The futile effort to start new unneeded units took not only a lot of work from the DE, but also from the few commissioners in the district. If it werent for this, it might have been possible, while the pack was still big enough to be sustainable, for somebody to visit the pack and make a review of its organization and planning, or lack thereof. An improvement plan could have been put in place, and the pack might not have imploded due to poor organization.