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Expanding the Scouting philosophy!

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It is nice to see the scouting philosophies spreading peace, democracy, and good-will of Gods grace to every corner of the globe. It sometimes comes under the attack of many, but our organization will survive and flourish around the world to those places even in the third world. It may be the key to global peace, if only a friendship or trust in another is built that is good enough for me!

 

Rob

Connecticut, USA

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Trevorum,

Trick question there, or maybe a trick answer... If you use the two charts from your link, you will see that Indonesia is listed as having more members that the US. However, the US entry is for the BSA while the Indonesia number is for both "Boy Scouts and Girl Guides Movement". If you were to add the GSA to the BSA I'm sure the USA would take the lead.

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I at times have to stand in awe of Scouting. I think of all the kids world wide that Scouting has touched. The millions upon millions of hours that volunteers put into Scouting.

Before getting married I spent a fair amount of time traveling a lot it because of and to do with Scouting, of course everyone thinks that their "Brand" of Scouting is the best in the world.

My little sister has just taken a new job for an Australian Law firm, she will be a partner based in their Hong Kong office. OJ and little old me can't wait to pop over for a visit and see how Scouting in Hong Kong works.

Here is my trivia question:

We all know that Scouting started in England. Which country was next?

Eamonn.

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BZZZZZZ

 

South Africa, Australia, and New Zealand were all in 1908 and I believe in that order. They were the first to follow the United Kingdom.

 

I'll take what's behind curtain #3.

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Chile started their program in 1909. Keep in mind Baden-Powell's S.Africa connection, I am 99.9% sure South Africa was second in early 1908.

 

We may need to go to a higher authority. Another poster has told me that he has extensive scouting training, including international training, perhaps he will be able to clarify this. ;)

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Indonesia-Gerakan Pramuka (Boy Scouts and Girl Guides Movement)

 

They have 8,909,435 members...wow.

 

I can't imagine any other organization that is in so many countries other then the Boy Scout Movement.

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I have posted this link before, and doubtless will again, but I am not sure it will ever be as appropriate check out

 

http://www.chsscout.net/rescenter/video/index.shtml#section4

 

Select the 4th choice, Address to Public

 

at the 2:40 mark of the speech by B-P, he talks about his hope that the world wide scouting movement would establish a bond amoung all men and boys as to make war impossible. Its nice to know our youth and founder have the same aspirations(This message has been edited by OldGreyEagle)

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VentureScoutNY please make that the Scout movement. Just because BSA is behind the times is no need to ignore the fact that there are lots of Scouting countries as well as some that lag behind and try and keep our boys and girls apart. Actually I prefer young men and women as terms.

 

Anyway that is enough stirring from down here. (Its an old discussion I know but Im feeling mischevious).

 

Indonesias Scouting seems, on the face of it to be more military in deportment than others. I think that Scouting is in some way compulsory there. According to WOSM though I thought that being voluntary was one of the requirments of a national Scouting organisation. Could well be wrong. Often am.

 

 

As well as WOSM members there are a few countries trying to get membership. I think Vanuatu is one. When over there they had Scout Troops run by the UK and France I think that were on other islands. I was on Efate and they were trying to get their three Groups to be a national organisation but were having all sorts of organisational trouble. Still the message is there even if the adults cant get things right.

 

That makes over 153 countries.

 

Is democracy really part of the Scouting philosophy? Does Gods grace include Buddhists, Muslims, Hare Krishnas for instance.

 

Heck I realy am stirring the pot.

 

Just had an earnest discussion on wage rates with co-workers. Must be getting me edgy. Sorry everyone. I will take a pill.

 

 

 

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As one from a country who still has separate programs, allow me to respond using the material from the FAQ page of www.bsalegal.org

 

Q. Why cant girls participate in Cub and Boy Scouting?

 

A. The Cub Scout and Boy Scout programs were designed to meet the emotional, psychological, physical and other needs of boys at various stages of their development. Boys in this age range seek out and enjoy group activities with other boys. These programs were developed after careful professional consideration. The Girl Scouts of the U.S.A. and other female youth organizations have developed programs designed to meet the needs of young girls. The Boy Scouts of America is a private organization, and as such, determines its own membership standards.

 

 

Q. Is the Boy Scouts of America discriminating against girls?

 

A. Of course not. Older girls may join Venturing. In the Cub Scout and Boy Scout programs, Boy Scouts of America is simply providing a program designed for young boys, just as the Girl Scout program is designed for young girls.

 

 

Q. Why did the Boy Scouts of America open all of the volunteer ranks to women?

 

A. Women have been an essential aspect of Boy Scouts leadership for many years. In order to provide male role models for boys, Scoutmaster and Assistant Scoutmaster positions had been limited to men, but in 1988 those volunteer positions were opened to women as well. Today over 400,000 women serve as registered volunteers in all levels of Scouting.

 

I personally support co-ed programs like Venturing. However, boys and girls are different (in case anyone here hadn't noticed) As someone who works with 11-18 year olds every day, I believe that particularly the 11-14 year old boys think and act very differently than their female counterparts. Having separate programs at this age is a very good thing.

 

The disservice that we have done is to not promote the achievements of our Girl Scouts. Many know that earning your Eagle is a difficult thing, but how many know what the Gold Award takes? It is only in the past year or so, that I found out. I recently visited the Astronaut Hall of Fame in Florida. An entire display spoke about astornauts in Scouts. It listed every astronaut who had ever been a Cub Scout or Boy Scout. Of course it made special mention of the Eagle Scouts. But it only spoke of Boy Scouts. I don't know if any of the female astronauts were in Girl Scouts and that's not right.

 

Think of it this way, I don't try to wear my wife's pants. They are not shaped for me. She doesn't wear my shirts, but she does occasionally borrow my tube socks. We both select clothes that fit us in all the right ways.

 

The important thing is not that we have the same program, but that our programs meet our needs and that we recognize achievement where and when it happens. As they grow older, things like Venturing and Sea Scouts open the doors to a gender shared experience.

 

Having said that, I believe that perhaps we should open up the opportunties for advancement to Eagle Scout or Quartermaster Award, to the girls who particiapte in those programs.

 

I'll hit the democracy issue in another posting.

 

Well, ozemu, when the pill wears off, I'll look forward to your reply.

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"Is democracy really part of the Scouting philosophy? Does Gods (sic) grace include Buddhists, Muslims, Hare Krishnas for instance.

 

Again I'll refer to the Nepal Scouts as my example. Below I have posted the Promise and Law of the Nepal Scouts.

 

Point 7 "A Scout obeys the orders of his King, parents, Patrol Leaders, Scoutmasters without question," certainly does not promote democracy, but point 4 is more telling.

 

"A Scout is a friend to all and a brother to every other Scout no matter to what country,

class or creed the other may belong." In a country where the class system is still a very strong part of their social fabric, it shows the positive and democratic influence.

 

The question about God's grace is primarily a theological one, that I will refrain from answering, but notice the reference to God in their promise. To pursue this further it would help to look at the Scout Laws and Promises from countries around the world.

 

Promise:

On my honour I promise that I will do my best:

To do my duty to God/Dharma, my Country and

the King, To help other people at all times. To

obey the Scout Law.

Law:

1. A Scout's honour is to be trusted.

2. A Scout is loyal to his country.

3. A Scout's duty is to be useful and to help others.

4. A Scout is a friend to all and a brother to every other Scout no matter to what country,

class or creed the other may belong.

5. A Scout is courteous.

6. A Scout is a friend to animals.

7. A Scout obeys the orders of his King, parents, Patrol Leaders, Scoutmasters without

question.

8. A Scout smiles and whistles under all difficulties.

9. A Scout is thrifty.

10. A Scout is clean in thought, word and deed.

 

My fingers are tired and I'm going to bed. It's 2:30 in the afternoon in Nepal. (That makes it 1:45 in the morning here.)

 

Yours in democratic, God's grace spreading, and sometimes gender separating Scouting, ;-)

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I had the good fortune to get to know many Scouts and Scouters in the Korean Scouting movement when I lived there. They, too, are co-ed, from the youngest to the oldest. Their units are mainly organized in their school classrooms, and their teachers are also their Scout leaders, as an additional duty. When they camp, it's also co-ed, and also includes the youngest to the oldest. The one thing our lads were most surprised about is that at no time when we camped with Korean Scouts, did they do their own cooking...they brought moms who were detailed to do all the cooking. Needless to say, they considered our patrol cooking as near extraterrestrial behavior, and were even more surprised when they found out that what we cooked was actually edible.

 

For all the differences, we seemed to have much more in common. One retired SM who owned a Scout campground we used near a fishing reservoir was a Wood Badger, wore his beads proudly, and if you gave him a second, would show you his pictures from the 1991 World Jamboree in Korea, for which he was one of the key volunteer organizers.

 

Same thing in Japan, although my experience with SAJ is limited to my Wood Badge class in Okinawa with two SAJ Scouters. I got the impression talking and working with them, that our programs have more similarities than differences...

 

KS

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