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"The Honor Society of Scouting"

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Speaking from my own experiences with the cubs program it is not so much it is too long as it is to repetitive. I do not agree with the den leaders following the boys through the ranks as it usually winds up becoming the same old-same old for five years. The boys need to have variety of leadership and even more challenging experiences as they mature. I agree with the idea of more emphasis on outdoor experiences suitable to the age group, and personally I would like to see the Webelos return to a one year program as it was originally created to be.


WWW your point about Venturing/Exploring I think is based solely on your own prejudice, as I know many crews with a solid outdoor program, including my crew. The reality is that by the time a boy turns 15 he is usually burned out by boy scouts, and quits or is searching for something more mature instead of hanging out with 11 & 12 year olds. Venturing gives him those opportunities and is a much better solution than losing him altogether.Personally I think Venturing could become a real asset in breathing some new life and leadership back into the OA. There are many outdoor crews out there who have extensive training and experiences in the outdoors and who could share them with younger scouts.

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BP, you are partly correct in your guess that my opinion is based on my prejudice, yup PARTLY. As an 18yo senior in high school I was a member of an explorer post for business. My reasons were three fold: I needed to be registered to maintain lodge membership (Iwas at the time a Chapter Chief), I was generally interested in business as a career path, One of my fellow explorers happend to be a hot daughter of a very famous Deputy Prosecutor in my city that also happend to attend my HS. Hey it was fun, it was not Scouting, and it was less work than JA (Junior Achievement). When I moved away to college I searched for a Troop that needed an ASM to maintain OA membership, although that also involved a Lodge transfer. I was fairly mature when I first took the Obligation, I was even more so when I became Brotherhood, which i remained for nearly 30 years until last weekend. I took seriously my obligations to not only my service to Scouting and the OA but the welfare of others.


V, V, and E do have their place. They are a way to add opportunities beyond Boy Scouting. Is it wrong to think that they should be stand alone programs? Our record of retention between program steps sure does not give me confidence that they are sustainable if they are not stand alone. That said we need to serve kids with our primary program and the best way to do that is meet their needs. The OA is part of that. This thread is about the misnomer of the description of what the Order is. Cange that to reflect what it should be and it might help spur V&E to come up with their own honor society more fitting with their program. As far as the other V varsity, if it is working in its niche market leave it be.


BP beyond those thoughts I also think that Venturing has a weak oath and sign. Meanwhile the BS Oath is like music and has great meaning IMHO. Add to that that Venturing is also just not producing the numbers despite being coed. It does not seem to be meeting the needs of youth either. Do not misunderstand that I am opposed to it. I think it is a good program and hopefully it will grow.

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Yea it is obvious your "business post" was probably atypical of Exploring in your day. The reason Venturing has had a problem in some areas is because too many advisors are former SM's who run the crew the exact same as they did their troop and that runs contrary to the intent and focus of the program. I think the earlier training of advisors from 1998-2003 were also partly to blame. Where Venturing is done CORRECTLY it is doing well, such as in my council. My crew from the start knew what they wanted their specialization to be, however they did not exclude any activities outside that specialization from their program if the interest was there. Which is why,IMO, our crew has had tremendous success and growth over the years.


As far as the oath is concerned, we don't recite it that often,unlike boy scouts, and I agree some of the wording is ackward. However it has no effect on the quality and fun that our program provides older teens, male and female, who need some focus in their lives and provides it in a fun social setting.

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