kairos 10 Posted October 12, 2004 Share Posted October 12, 2004 My pack at a private school has run into a major problem. The President of the school feels that SACS accredidation policies indicate that the school should control all funds raised by students. All of our cub scouts are students. We meet on campus and the school is our Charter Organization. Our District contacted BSA and got the response of "We don't know of any CO controlling pack funds." SACS has been slow in answering this and we are still waiting. I can't believe this is even an issue. Anyone have any experience here??? Link to post Share on other sites
FScouter 24 Posted October 12, 2004 Share Posted October 12, 2004 Something got lost in the tranlation. The chartered organization owns the Pack. They would have control of "Pack Funds", unless they delegated that responsibility to Pack people. Link to post Share on other sites
kairos 10 Posted October 12, 2004 Author Share Posted October 12, 2004 All of the packs in our area maintain their own checking accounts. Our District officials seem to agree. I'm getting confused here? Link to post Share on other sites
FScouter 24 Posted October 12, 2004 Share Posted October 12, 2004 There is nothing wrong with having a checking account. Most units have them. Just remember that all the money and all the equipment belongs to the chartered org. I think many chartered orgs are happy to let Pack people keep the books and maintain a checking account. If your school president wants more control, you really don't have much to say about it. Keep your books clean and send him a copy of the treasurer's report every month. Maybe he just wants a little more visibility. You may be a bit confused, maybe not. Heres a simple view. Keep in mind that Scouting is a program that your school uses to further its aims. Its one of their programs for youth. The Pack is not its own entity. The Pack belongs to the school. The Pack leaders are approved by the school. The Scouting program belongs to BSA. The annual charter agreement is between BSA and the school. BSA provides a program, assistance, insurance, etc. and the school provides a meeting place, leaders, etc. The Pack is what results when BSA and the school work together. It is the implementation of the agreement. Link to post Share on other sites
kairos 10 Posted October 13, 2004 Author Share Posted October 13, 2004 Well, I guess the bottom line is that most schools who are the Charter Organization allow boys from other schools in the pack and don't care who handles the funds. Since the school also insists of limiting our fundraising time, we have decided, with the District's blessing, to change Charter Orgs. With "a group of concerned citizens" as our CO, we hope to be free to fundraise our way to a successful pack. Any comments? Link to post Share on other sites
Bob White 20 Posted October 13, 2004 Share Posted October 13, 2004 You cannot "change" COs. The School is the cartered partner with the council not the pack. You can all quit and go start another unit. But the school is free to retain its charter, and the pack number, and select new leaders who will abide by its rules, unusual though they may be. But it is not your charter to take and go elsewhere with. This and other info on the structure of scouting can be learned at New Leader essential training. Call your local District professional for times and dates. BW Link to post Share on other sites
littlek 10 Posted October 13, 2004 Share Posted October 13, 2004 After checking with national, all that is needed to change CO is a letter releasing ties and pack number. Thereby allowing a group of 'concerned parents' to charter the group. Let us know how it goes Link to post Share on other sites
Bob White 20 Posted October 13, 2004 Share Posted October 13, 2004 Correct you need the CO to void their contract with the BSA. Notice that littlek said the letter needed to be from the CO not the unit. That is because the charter does not belong to the unit. Link to post Share on other sites
FScouter 24 Posted October 13, 2004 Share Posted October 13, 2004 If the chartered org was planning a fundraising dinner on Saturday, they would not want the Pack planning a fundraising dinner on Friday. Or if you plan a rummage sale two weeks before they have another rummage sale planned. It would seem to be a whole lot easier to work out a fundraising plan with the CO than to pull out and go elsewhere. Our council will no longer charter "parents of" units because without exception they flounder and fail. Conflicts with the chartered organization is probably the worst reason to set up a "parents of" unit. Conflicts are with people, not institutions, and "parents of" is just a group of people. Please don't be fooled. "Parents of" groups create a whole new set of problems. Link to post Share on other sites
EagleInKY 14 Posted October 13, 2004 Share Posted October 13, 2004 Kairos - Back to your original question. Perhaps there is a solution that meets both needs. If the school can feel confident that the pack is spending and controlling money properly, then they can probably meet the SACS requirement. I would suggest having a meeting with the Committee Chairman and Pack Treasurer with the Principal and School Treasurer. At that meeting, I'd agree upon the following: - Budgeting process - Expenditure approval and check signing processes - Reporting requirements (types of reports and timing) Put the procedures in place, provide the reports to the appropriate people. This should meet SACS requirements and help the pack put better controls in place. It's a win-win. Link to post Share on other sites
Bob White 20 Posted October 13, 2004 Share Posted October 13, 2004 That would seem to be an appropriate course of action. Link to post Share on other sites
fotoscout 15 Posted October 13, 2004 Share Posted October 13, 2004 On the flip side, it would be very nice to have the CO step forward and ask for control of our money. Thats one less committee position that we would have to fill, AND, its a great way to get the CO involved with your pack. Link to post Share on other sites
evmori 11 Posted October 13, 2004 Share Posted October 13, 2004 Bob White, Can the BSA void the contract with the CO? Ed Mori Troop 1 1 Peter 4:10 Link to post Share on other sites
kairos 10 Posted October 14, 2004 Author Share Posted October 14, 2004 New Update: First, the problem was the CO limiting our fundraising due to school policy (2 weeks for popcorn sales and 2 days for selling Chik-Fil-A calendars{approved by Council}). Next, a very senior SACS official reversed the opinion of the first SACS official and said that the CO (a private school) should not concern itself with BSA pack fundraising. So now we are back in negotiations with CO on compromising on fundraising. Per our Council officials, we were encouraged to adopt a new CO with the present CO's permission and BSA review. There are several "group of concerned citizens" COs in our council. Fortunately this may be avoided if our CO will follow the lead of the rest of the nation and not insist of control of our funds and fundraising. We think we have made progress. This forum has helped me by illustrating that different people have different opinions and one should persistently ask questions. Thanks to all. Any further comments are welcome and appreciated. Link to post Share on other sites
Bob White 20 Posted October 14, 2004 Share Posted October 14, 2004 "Can the BSA void the contract with the CO?" Yes. The BSA can nullify the charter if; The CO violates the policies of the BSA. The CO refuses to adhere to the policies of the BSA. The CO fails to fulfill their portion of the "shared agreement". None of these conditions exist from what has been shared by kairos thus far. Link to post Share on other sites
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