ASM or Committee

[OneHour 11]

Just as LauraT, I can't decide which sandbox to play in. My oldest just crossover about two weeks ago. He chose a troop that I didn't care for (namely because of the adult leadership ... not the boys), but I respect his decision. This troop has a political battle going on between the CC and the SM. The CC is trying to control the troop (I'm not sure of his m.o. but from past dealings with him in Cub Scout, I simply don't trust the man). The SM has always gathered all the power and the CC is trying to decentralize him.

 

The CC did try to form a new troop a couple of years ago but wasn't successful. He went out of his way to pit two local troops against each other and last year he tried to performed a coup-de-tete and get both troops combined. It didn't work.

 

The SM, on the other hand, has always done everything by himself. The Committee and the program side were run by him. The patrol method existed only on paper.

 

Now, that my son chose this troop, I am ready to roll up my sleeves to help. I can't decide which side. I am trained in both ASM and Committee. I preferred the program side since I was a CM and love to teach the kids, but the Committee side needs help (namely to keep the CC in check). So what do you folks think? ASM or Committee?

[NJCubScouter 1389]

It sounds to me like both "sides" need "help," probably including a CR (or if "absent," a commissioner) to knock the CC's and SM's heads together and get them to play nice. The problems with the CC are obvious, but from the SM side, you say the patrol method exists only on paper. How are the boys getting the full benefit of the program if the patrol method exists only on paper? How does a boy learn leadership other than by being a PL, SPL or other position, and not just on paper?

 

I speak not from a wealth of personal experience, other than what I remember from my own youth. My only son also has just chosen a troop and will cross over on March 21. Fortunately there does not seem to be any political intrigue in this troop, in fact there was just a "peaceful" transition from one SM to the next with the old one becoming CC. When we went to visit a meeting, things seemed pretty chaotic. One of the ASM's explained to me that they had had a camping trip planned to start the following evening but it was cancelled due to an expected snowstorm (which turned out to be the big recent East Coast snowstorm.) Therefore the program was kind of "up in the air." That didn't sound so good to me. I did see 2 ASM's working with individual boys on advancement, so SOMETHING productive was going on. The ASM also told me that the SPL is brand new, 14 years old, and is still learning how to get things under control. Well, that actually sounded a bit better -- like they know the goal is "boy run," but the boy still needs a couple meetings to tie things together. I could tell that the SM and ASM's were making a studied effort NOT to get the boys under control, apparently figuring that the new SPL would get the message.

 

OK, I think I can live with that. But enough about me. One Hour (ha ha on the name), if I were you I probably would be an ASM so I could keep an eye on what kind of program the boys are getting, and whether there is any way you can nudge things toward the patrol method and boy-run. But I would keep the addresses of the other local troops handy in case that does not work.

 

(By the way, the reason my son chose this troop was NOT the chaos -- THAT I would have a problem with. The main reason is that last year's Webelos 2 den, including a few boys that he had become friends with, joined this troop en masse, so this is where he knows other boys and has friends.)

[Bob White 20]

Follow your joy!

[OneHour 11]

Well ... believe it or not, the CC was (is?) the Unit Commissioner. When I say "on paper," what I meant was the SM ran the troop, not the SPL and his assistants. Don't get me wrong the SM is very good with the boys and he is a great guy, but I don't think that he has grown out of the CM mode after he transitioned into scouting couple of years ago. The SM is not what I'm worried about, it's the CC and his hidden agenda (there is a long story behind that). Let's just say that I was warned about the CC from another District officer! As I put it to one of the other Webelos parents, this troop is destined for greatness or it will fall miserably with this CC.

 

My son chose this troop because he thinks that they have more fun than the other and that's important!

(This message has been edited by OneHour)

[LauraT7 13]

having been there and done that - I do NOT envy you.

 

however - the reason i stayed on the committee for two years is that i supported the interim SM and new SM who wanted to bring back boy-lead programming. In order to support the boys and the boy lead program - there needed to be adults ON THE COMMITTEE that were trained and voting in their best interests.

 

Being on the committee does not mean that you can't participate in activities and teach the boys. But is does mean that you are not supposed to sign off on their advancements - because you might have to sit that same boys board of review.

 

If you CC is power hungry, the troop might need some people to hold him in check. But if there are no others who feel the way you do about the program - it can be a lonely road.

 

if you think you can effect a change - esp if the you think the SM could go for more boy lead if he had committee support - go for the committee. If you are alone and figure you just have to make the best of things the way they are - be an ASM and see if you can get the boys to 'take back' their own program bit by bit.

 

Good luck!

 

lauraT

[mk9750 11]

Laura,

 

I think this is the 2nd or 3rd time I have seen a reference to a committee member not signing off an advancement because that committee member could be on a Scout's BOR. I've been an Advancment Chair for 7 years, and think I am pretty well versed in advancement policy. I can't think of anything I have ever heard or read that prohibits this.

 

My personal belief is that knowledgable boys should be signing off most requirements. However, if that doesn't happen, I think any KNOWLEDGABLE adult can and should be able to test a boy and sign the requirement. I think it is bad practice to allow a parent to sign off their own child, especially if it becomes a large percentage of the requirements. But to preclude a potential BOR member from evaluating a boy's skill doesn't seem right to me. Doing so logically leads to prohibiting a Committee Member from being a MB councelor for a boy in his own Troop for the same reason.

 

I've been wrong before (and I can prove it!!!), so if you know of some regulation I've missed, let me know. But I think you might be a bit off base on this one.

 

But on the topic...

 

OneHour - first, I love your handle. Wish I had thought of it!

 

I thought you were talking about a unit and a CC I know. As I read on, I realized you weren't, but man there are a lot of similarities. From my view, I'd stay on the committee. As you might note from my point above, I see little that a Commiteee Member can't do (they can camp, they can teach, they can test, they can influence, etc.), but in your particular case, you can also help shape the role of the committee by being on it. As I'm sure you know, the committee's job is to support the Troop program. If you believe the SM has the right attitide and will work on being more boy led, then let him grow into a SM teaching boys to run the Troop. Concentrate on using your influence to meet the requirements of the committee.

 

And lastly, I would question someone with council or district authority about your Unit Commissioner having an interest in your unit. I guess I can see where it might have to happen for lack of volunteers, but it really is a bad idea.

 

Good luck!

 

Mark

[OneHour 11]

Thanks for the advices. I will let them decide where they want me. I gave the SM my app, leaving the position blank, and asked him to get with the CC to see where they need help. You are all correct, both sides need help! I can influence from either side. I can always be on the opposite side later since I have three boys ... I'll be in it for a long time!

 

I guess that I will get post another request for advices on how to deal with the situation later on. I have more than just my sons at stake in squashing the political tides, many in my Pack are interested going where I am at. So ... that's the 10 who join with us this time and over 30+ boys for the next 3 years. It's going to be interesting to say the least! Thanks.

 

1hour(This message has been edited by OneHour)