THIS MEANS WAR!:The culture war is real and BSA is its Pork Chop Hill

[Beavah 205]

Yah, sorry BobWhite. Not new math, just old fumblin' fingers.

 

Schools is just a bit over 200 students, which is how yeh get to the 100 boys that I mentioned. Takin' the time to think about what one class per grade means also would have made my typo obvious, eh?

 

So the 20% or so is right, and I reckon Pappy's doin' OK in terms of TAY. Without a decision to open up active recruitment to public school kids or non-Catholics (clearly not the goal since they're runnin' things in part as an after school program), I expect he's not goin' to grow too much on average.

 

It's a good illustration how easy it is to misread or inadvertently come to the wrong conclusion if we start out with a prejudice that somebody else is a lousy scouter. Better I reckon to assume he is a friend and colleague faced with different conditions and challenges.

 

Beavah

(This message has been edited by Beavah)

[FScouter 24]

Neither the number of boys registered nor the percentage of those boys available has anything to do with whether they are participating in a Scouting program. Even signing up the whole school says nothing about what they're getting.

[Beavah 205]

Neither the number of boys registered nor the percentage of those boys available has anything to do with whether they are participating in a Scouting program. Even signing up the whole school says nothing about what they're getting.

 

Yah, from your lips to other folks ears, eh?

 

Nonetheless, for the moment those remain the BSA's principal evaluation rubrics. So I think BobWhite was bein' fair in raising those numbers as an issue. I confess I had the same reaction as he did until I thought about what a typical small rural town Catholic school looks like, eh?

 

To be honest, the more I think about it, the more running as a consolidated troop/pack makes sense, and probably matches the CO's mission where older 6-7-8 youth are school leaders and mentors to the younger kids. With only about 36 boys in those grades, gettin' 9 boys or so as boy scouts would be about all I'd expect most of the time. Yeh could see in this kind of environment where eventually a high school Venturing Crew might fit - more available youth, service to the pack/troop, without disrupting the tight tie between the school and the pack/troop.

 

It's a tough challenge, and I reckon Pappy is at least thinkin' creatively about it.

 

Beavah

 

[Bob White 20]

Beavah,

No predjudice. Predjudice means pre-judging and Pappy has certainly shared ample information on his personal methods and beliefs. I have never suggested he was a lousy scouter, if you recall, I am unconvinced he is a scouter at all, [non-sequiter] But that is another topic.

 

My point related to the topic here is that Pappy's energies and concerns in fighting a cultural war he cannot win might be better applied to improving his home unit program that he says is losing members steadily, despite the fact that he is using his own program and not the scouting program. When in fact by using the scouting program he might make headway in both the cultural war and in the battle to improve unit membership and deliver on the Aims of Scouting. It would seem to be a win win situation for him and the Souts.

 

 

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[Beavah 205]

But I freely admitted my error in public, and offered a very public apology to Pappy on the forums, eh? I reckon that's what honorable folks do when they make a mistake. Don't you agree that's what honorable folks should do? Even though mine was a private error rather than a public accusation, and as you mentioned I quickly corrected the error myself, I still thought it important to offer a public apology.

 

Seems like Pappy is once again bein' honest that for his circumstances and his area, his is a moderately successful unit. What he's actually said is that his unit has had a membership that's fluctuated between 20 and 40, not that it's losing members steadily... at least not any more than is typical in other scouting programs, especially at webelos/scouts transition.

 

If we have specific ideas that can help him improve membership given his circumstances, then I reckon he'd be happy to hear 'em, eh? And that's what friendly and helpful people do for fellow Scouters, isn't it?

 

Beavah

(This message has been edited by Beavah) (This message has been edited by a staff member.)

[Bob White 20]

[snappy comeback not needed here]

My question to Pappy, was would it not be more effective to worry less about a percieved "cultural war" that he cannot end, and focus on ways to alter a program he controls that he says is not attracting or retaining scouts?

 

It would not appear that the cultural war is what is effecting his community, when you compare the growth of scouting in the other districts around him. Pappy himself has suggested that the cultural war was effecting his unit, yet other units are growing, even flourishing. He suggests that the merger of his council 15 years ago has effect his unit adversely, yet other districts and units that were part of that same merger are growing.

 

He suggests that the BSA program is ineffective although he admits to never using it, yet the program he leads he says in losing youth membership.

 

I am simple suggesting that the energies and thought he gives to the ambiguous "cultural War" might be better placed in delevering a more effective unit program. That would make an effect on both the culture and the unit membership.

(This message has been edited by Bob White) (This message has been edited by a staff member.)

[BadenP 93]

F-Scouter please do not edit this post with your usual hatchet style because it is the gospel truth.

Seeing as how the post adds nothing but off-topic negativity. Chop-chop.

(This message has been edited by a staff member.)

[Bob White 20]

[Defensive retort no longer needed] (This message has been edited by a staff member.)

[acco40 95]

Guys, take it outside. Nobody needs to be lectured on what is or what is not courteous, kind, cheerful, etc.

 

If you find certain forum members not to your liking, I suggest you ignore them.

[Hiromi 9]

Hi Bob,

 

I said that I don't blame the culture war or any one else for my failures at retention and recruitment. I blame myself. In fact- you might be glad to hear that I have been moviing my two units which have been unconventional and consolidated into a more conventional bifuracted BSA state. I will manitain an advanced Denner leadership experience because I believe this has been a very good experience for the boys.

 

I fully plan on recieveing my woodbadge and cope training. I have not rejected BSA. I have merely allowed my own judgement and taste to guide me in my efforts of forming a unit for my CO. (One of the pitfalls of being a visual artist is that your romance and superfiscialty sometimes gets the best of you!I was very enamored of the paintings of Norman Rockwell and many of my early efforts was to get my unit looking and acting like those pictures.)

 

I readily admit that I have never been a very good team player. I have a lot of my own ideas about things, and this may or may not be a good skill set for the ideal scout leader. But as I have grown in this roile, I have come to see the logic and beauty of much of what BSA does.

 

And I am not trying to create a movement or sell anyone on what I have been doing with my unit.

 

And the school that is my CO has 8 grades to pull from (we have tigers), and from those 8 grades of 200 children there are about 100 boys. So when in my hay day we had 42 scouts we had a significat portion of the male student body. With that number came excrutiating difficulty for me in many respects. I wasn't prepared for that kind of growth. Not keeping that number and losing one clique of 5th grade boys in particular was one of the most difficult experinces I had as a scouter. It was very hard.

 

But we built up a new corps group from the ashes, with parents who "got" what we were tring to do- as imperfect as it was. ANd now I have parents and kids who seem more solid and our unit is friendlier and more communicative. I don't know if this makes sense.

 

ANyways- We are in the process of bifurcating and allowing the Boy Scouts to form a boy run patrol and have separated meetings, elections, and everything else entailed in a traditional Scout unit. But in addition to being Boy Scouts proper, they will be Denners.

 

 

Pappy(This message has been edited by Pappy)

[Bob White 20]

Do you mean Den Chiefs which is a Boy Scout positioon of responsibility? Because Denner is Cub Scout position in a Den....held by cub scout aged boys.

[Hiromi 9]

Bob,

 

Yes, both, precisely.