Training and J2E: We have to go through training again!

[Eagle92 110]

Fish,

 

I do understand what you are saying. Yes scouting is changing. But there is already a mechanism in place to keep leaders updated and trained to the latest info without going through basic training all over again. Round Tables are those continuing education courses. Also University of Scouting is another way of presenting changes. That's why you need to go to either a UoS or so many RTs to get your training awards. Also RTs do have training codes. Sorry don't have the time to look up UoS.

 

You use the military example. But here's the deal though, when you join you either go through Basic Training, aka Boot Camp, or OCS if you go officer only one time. Once you receive that basic training, you never have to go through it again. Yes you receive advance training and keep up to date with that advanced training, but you never go through basic again. The BSA is now telling us that Although we completed basic training, we now have to redo it all over again.

 

I'll now an example of now untrained leader. A WDL who did YP , Fast Start, New Leader Essentials, TCDL Specific, CSDL Specific, WDL Specific, and BALOO is now considered "Untrained" because he hasn't taken NLE's replacement: This Is Scouting.

[Scoutfish 16]

Nah, he isn't untrained..he just isn't trained enough to meet JTE standards.

 

BSA isn't saying you will be considered untrained, just that you don't meet the requirements to be "topgun" ( for lack of a better name).

 

And taking "This Is Scouting" will only take you 20 minutes tops online. Are we saying people would rather spend days and weeks complaining about a minor distinction than sitting at a computer for 20 minutes?

 

Now, I am not saying I completely agree with BSA's stance in taking an entire course over. I never said I think it's an awesom idea and that I support it completely. I am just saying I understand what they want.

 

Understanding their side and agreeing with the entire exact details of it are not the same. Just because I am not taking the side of the majority in here does not mean I do not understand what is going on.

 

They are not saying anybody will be untrained ot dropped from a recharter for not taking an extra class.

 

That is just a knee jerk reation.

 

All they are saying is : In order to maintain JTE status, you must have the latest up to date training. If not, you will still be a leader, will still do the spanking awesome job you always did...you just can't wear the patch.

 

And that is what this is all about....a patch!

 

I do think BSA should have a continuous training system in place by way of RT or even having a 3 hour a month setting where any and all pertinant info, ideas or changes can be passed to any and all unit.

 

This would keep everybody up to date, and leave all training to be given to those who are starting out fresh.

 

 

But for someone or a group of leaders to say they would quit and drop a unit over not getting a patch?

 

WOW!

 

Maybe that's exactly the people who do need to re-train, because my understanding is that it is all about mentoring the boys, giving great guidance for life, building character, and coming out with an overall well prepared young adult..........

 

not having a fit over wearing a patch on our sleeve.

 

Again, I do not necessarily agree the WAY BSA wants to do it, but the reasoning WHY is sound.

[Eagle92 110]

Not so much the trained patch or J2E patches, although for a few I bet it is. Rather it is the feeling that for all the work they have done to get the training to provide a quality program for the scouts for all these years, they are now being told that it is for nothing if they want their unit to be recognized as a quality unit, or to be considered trained. For some it feels as if they have been slapped in the face by national. I hope I am not around when the PTC staffer in my district finds out about the update, 'cause I know what his reaction was when I told him that according to the district training report, he was not trained. Luckily he was in good company 'cause SCOUTNET did not have me listed as trained either, and I was training chair at the time

 

I admit I was somewhat angry at this update. Grant you I'm involved somewhat with training, so some of the courses I will be teaching at some point in the future when I am asked and I can. So to a lesser degree I am not really affected. But I have a lot of friends who will be affected. I know of excellent units that I would recommend in a heartbeat to someone, but with this new requirement, they would not be recognized as excellent. And I have dealt with similar situation already.

 

[Scoutfish 16]

Back when I was a volunteer firefighter I was at our local community college during a training weekend. Best way I could escribe it would be "University of Scouting- Firefighter Edition"

 

This involved paid, volunteer, Federal, airport, forestry services, and ammunition depo guys from Camp Lejune. There were a few water rescue units there also.

 

So, during discussion in one of the classes, I was called upon to answer a question. After I gave it, one of the atendees who was also a paid firefighter at the local airports asks with dripping sarcasm and an ugly sneer: "So, are you a professional or volunteer firemen?"

 

Before I could answer...and I WAS going to answer him.....the instructor says: "Yes, yes he is. He is a volunteer and a professional. too bad you are not!"

 

Then he goes to explain that professional is an attitude, a state of mind and a lever of preparedness and readyness as well as how you execute your plans.

 

Wether you are paid or not has absolutely nothing to do with being professional.

 

Now, I'm pretty sure that this rings true with quite a many scouters: Being paid has no direct connection to how professional we are or how well we do our job.

 

So, back to that point..I too love wearing my QUA patch, And right now, we will definantly get our JTE patch too.

 

But I do not , nor do the parents or my DE need for me or my leaders or any of our scouts to wear that patch to know what kind of job we do.

 

Especially the scouts...as. long as the are happy and getting something from it..the patch be damned.

 

 

My question and - not directed at any one person in particular - is this: If this was a Uniform Award Knot...would anybody be this upset?

 

If this was for a CM, SM , or scouter key award knot..would anybody even raise an eyebrow?

[Basementdweller 608]

Scout fish the JTE has been discussed here before.

 

 

I think it is a waste of marketing

 

Advancement: Increase the percentage of Cub Scouts earning rank advancements.

Retention: Improve retention rate.

Building Cub Scouting: Have an increase in membership or be larger than the average size pack.

Outdoor activities: The pack has activities in the outdoors.

 

Trained leadership: Have a trained and engaged pack committee.

Have a Cubmaster and a committee with at least three members. All dens have leaders. The entire committee has completed This Is Scouting, Fast Start training, and Youth Protection training or, if new, complete within three months of joining. Den or pack meetings have started by October 31.

Bronze level, plus all must have completed Leader-Specific Training or, if new, complete within six months of joining.

Silver level, plus pack participates in BALOO training and in OWLS training.

50

100

200

6

Day/resident camp: The pack participates in Cub Scout day camp or Cub Scout resident camp.

The pack participates in Cub Scout day camp or Cub Scout resident camp.

 

Service projects: The pack participates in service projects, with one benefitting your chartering organization. The projects and hours are entered on the Journey to Excellence website.

 

Leadership planning: Next year's leaders are identified early.

By May 31, the pack committee recruits/confirms pack and den leadership for the next year.

Earn the Bronze level, plus the pack holds its fall recruitment by September 30.

Earn the Bronze and Silver levels, plus every leadership position is filled by October 15.

 

Webelos-to-Scout transition: Have a Webelos-to-Scout transition plan with a troop or troops.

With a troop, hold two joint activities, one of which is a parent orientation and camp promotion meeting.

 

Budget: The pack has a budget that is continually reviewed by the committee and follows BSA policies relating to fundraising and fiscal management.

Have a written budget reviewed at committee meetings and that follows BSA policies.

Earn the Bronze level, plus Cub Scouts' ideas are used in the budget planning process.

Earn the Bronze and Silver levels, plus budget is completed by August 31 for the next program year.

 

Pack and den meetings: Packs and dens have regular meetings.

Hold nine pack meetings a year, with one meeting reviewing program plans and asking for parental involvement. Dens meet twice a month.

Meet the Bronze level plus, pack committee meets at least six times a year.

Meet the Bronze level plus, pack committee meets at least ten times a year.

 

Reregister on-time

Complete reregistration, obtain all signatures, and submit paperwork to the council office prior to the expiration of your charter.

 

Annual assessment: Completion of this form.

Conduct an annual pack assessment using this form, and submit it completed and signed with the charter renewal forms.

 

 

 

Now honestly Training is one line and you can get the gold level without trained leadership.....but you cannot recharter with out all direct contact leaders being fully trained.....

[Lisabob 13]

Scoutfish, I think what people are responding to is the ham-handed way that BSA tries to do things (like this new JTE requirement), without seeming to have really thought through how it will work, how it will impact existing leaders, and how and when it should be communicated. Given the BSA's woeful history of poor quality training and awful record keeping related to training, this comes as no surprise, I guess, but I still would have expected better.

 

People just get irritated when they feel that their time is being wasted or when they're treated like imbeciles.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[SeattlePioneer 144]

I turned in my rechartering packet last year explicitly NOT qualifying for the award last year, but I notice I was credited with it anyway.

 

With the new, more complicated requirements, I imagine it will be just as easy to qualify for the JTE as last year, and ever higher standards will give the illusion that my pack is doing great.

[desertrat77 1144]

I concur with Lisabob, well said.

 

I'm all for CE...but I'm against dull, uninspired, lengthy, repetitive, square-filling training. So are alot of volunteers. Why National can't comprehend this is beyond me.