Denner Manual

[DLChris71 10]

So this year, starting in December I started rotating the boys in my den through the Denner and Assistant Denner. Mainly their roles were to hold the flags during our opening ceremony and to come up with a den yell. For a few weeks now, while I had time I started putting together a Denner Manual and it's in the early stages of development. I wanted to get some feed back on it.

 

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1TamnASiLyFloBxgBRBFwBM6UXZ9TVSHbSoaZWkn0StU/edit

[ScoutNut 147]

Lots of work done with it. However, I feel it is way over the top. Especially for 2nd grade Wolf Cubs.

 

A Denner is not a Boy Scout Patrol Leader, not even close.

 

Almost 3 hours of training, really? For every boy in the den?

[ScoutNut 147]

I think that The Cub Scout Leader Book sums up the Denner/Asst Denner positions well enough -

 

"In Wolf, Bear, and Webelos Scout dens, the den leader works with an assistant den leader (another

adult) and, potentially, a den chief (a Boy Scout). The den may also elect a denner and an assistant

denner, boy members of the den, to work with the den leader and den chief."

 

"The denner is a den member selected to be a boy leader for a short period of timeanywhere from

one week to several months. It is a good practice for the den leader to rotate the position of denner

throughout the den so that all boys have the opportunity to experience the leadership position. The den

leader and den chief determine his responsibilities, which might include helping to set up and clean up

the den meeting place; helping with games, ceremonies, tricks, and puzzles; leading a song; or acting

as den cheerleader. The denner should be given meaningful responsibilities and recognition to help

him learn how to be a leader. The denner wears a shoulder cord on the left shoulder. Some dens also

have assistant denners who assist the denner and may move up to the denner position after his rotation."

 

Why is more information than this needed?

 

[DLChris71 10]

Denner not a patrol leader- yes I think I spent some time going over that fact.

 

3 hours- It doesn't have to be 3 hours, it could certainly be less. It doesn't have to be 3 consecutive hours, could as easily be 3 den meetings. In my experience just telling a boy that he's a denner and stand here with the flag and lead the pledge, etc. is about useless and does a disservice to the boy. It throws them on the spot without understanding what the purpose is, sink or swim. I think we owe it to someone stepping into a leadership position an investment in time.

 

If you compare it to other extracurricular awards 3 hours is not much time...

 

BSA Family: 5-20 hours

Outdoor Activity: 24+ hours

World Conservation: 12+ hours

Leave No Trace: 6+ hours

 

for every boy in the den- Again in my experience I don't think it would be necessary to have training for every boy. I would limit it to those who are interested in being a Denner, but certainly offered to all. I would rotate the boys that do not want to do extra training through the Assistant Denner position. I would also only offer a training session maybe once a quarter or bi-annually.

 

Why is more information needed- because the Den Leader manual lacks any details and is very vague.(This message has been edited by dlchris71)

[Eagle92 110]

glanced at link. WAY too much overkill.

[shortridge 184]

I appreciate your enthusiasm, but no Cub Scout is going to get all that. Way WAY too much overkill. Do your kids a favor and dump it.

[DLChris71 10]

Yes...I think perhaps it's written more BALOO trainer manual than elementary school guide.

 

I cut it down, and focused it on Bears...so version 2:

 

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1_6b9Q585jKHM4pZeAWvQBcvSvbnukv4oDlAHLZ0Mbfo/edit

 

Let me know if the length is better. The reading level also drops from about 8.0 to 5.0, at least according to my spell checker.

[dg98adams 18]

Only other thing I did when I was CM and worked to get DC for the dens, was also show the DC the Award form if they choose to pursue it beyond the Boy Scout tenure for the Cub Scout year, so they would be aware of what I needed.

 

I also chatted each DC up a couple times during his tenure and gave feedback back to his SM/SPL.

 

 

 

[Fehler 118]

For Bears, include the Achievements met by being a Denner.

 

Don't include things that are expected of all scouts in the den, such as "Keep your word" and "Ask for help".

[Eagle92 110]

DL,

 

Still think it's overkill as the denner is not a POR in the sense that the Den chief and Patrol leader are in a den and patrol respectively.

 

The Denner is the scout who helps you out and leads the den in doing things, i.e ceremonies and what not.

 

relax and go with the flow.

[Scoutfish 16]

Well, you know your boys better than any of us could ever think to, but I also feel like it's too much.

 

It is almost like a POR which Boy Scouts choose to go after .

 

Our denner's duties basically consisted of collecting den dues and helping with the attendance roster.

 

That was enough to make them feel important, feel proud and keep the other boys coming each month because they knew they would get a turn too.

 

I do think you copuld adapt it to Webelos though. At that rank, it's not too much of a stretch. But I would make them sought out goals, not requirements for the position.

 

I personally wouldn't have a training. You should be able to simplify things enough to just say: "This is what your 'duites' are."

 

And I'd drop all the Boy Scout and patrol references, The cubs will zone out before reading that far. For Webelos, a slightly condensed version explaining patrol and Boy Scouts should be okay.

 

Depending on how many boys are in your den,and a new denner each month, they will get ..what? ...3 meetings as a denner. I wouldn't hold a traing for that short a time in that position.

 

[SeattlePioneer 144]

I've never gotten around to using Denners in my den programs, but you've got me thinking.

 

 

I just formed a new "Bobcat Den" out of three Kindergarten and three First grade boys I'm hoping will join the pack (only two have at present). We formed the Bobcat Den last night, which will last until our Overnight Camp June 2-3 when they should have earned their Bobcat badges and be ready to form their regular dens for the next year.

 

I'm thinking about cutting and sanding a section from a tree branch and putting a Bobcat sticker of some kind on it as a Badge of Office for the Denner I appoint for a meeting.

 

The Badge of Office would be on a lanyard of some kind, perhaps a boot lace from hiking boots which have traveled over many miles of trails.

 

The Denner will be asked to help with activities like putting up a self supporting tent which I have planned for the next meeting.

 

I'll have to look for some positive quality which will allow me to choose a boy for that office at the next meeting ---- a boy who is ON TIME for the meeting, for example. (Tardiness was an issue.)

 

At the end of the meeting I would get the Denner Badge back and be ready to award it to another deserving Bobcat at the next meeting.

[ScoutNut 147]

Yep, again, overkill. I do not see a need for a printed out Denner Manual at all, much less Denner Training.

 

 

All that is needed is to -

 

1) Explain - simply, and concisely - what a denner is/does to the entire den.

 

2) Have the den vote for a denner.

 

3) Have a simple denner ceremony and present the elected denner his denner cord.

 

4) Explain to the denner what you want him to do.

 

5) Every month, repeat #2-4, taking the names of any old denners out of contention for the election, and having the previous denner transfer his denner cord to the new denner.

 

 

[DLChris71 10]

SP- I really like your idea of a different "badge of office". The Denner Cords never seem to fit the boys right and a lot of times they fall apart during games. I've taken to carrying spare pins in my den box. I think something more mobile and smaller is called for and I wish that they still had the old denner patches and pins. Fortunately the old symbol is not hard to copy. You could get a button maker to make it or possibly paint it on a plastic top and make your own pin.

 

In my time with using a Denner and Assistant Denner the boys like the denner position, or should I say that they like holding the flag during the opening ceremony. I think giving them a few more minutes of responsibility would be helpful. However helping set up the room or the games would require the boys to show up a few minutes early and that would require the parents to get them there on time.

 

So what is the purpose of the guide and manual? Who does it address? The target audience is the same as with the Rank Manual. Either the rank manual is overkill because it's written to boys who can't possibly understand it, or it's written to the parents and scouters.I think that I can expect a little more from my den and from the parents in my den. So I think a two page guide (or a few more), outlining what a denner does, the expectations and being a training outline is not overkill. Especially if it keeps the Den Leader and parents straight on what they expect out of the position.

 

So yeah I could wing telling the boys what the expectations are every month, or I could save time and do it once or twice per year as part of an outing or in the den meeting.

 

et al- Your vote of overkill is noted in the ether of the e-verse and your contribution will forever be celebrated in the misty vale, you have SAVED US ALL.