Leader refuses to use immediate recognition beeds

[Scoutfish 16]

First thing we have to do is this:

 

Make sure we understand the difference between our OPINIONS and the Cub Scouts OPINIONS!

 

As an adult: the beads are not a big deal. They are just beads. Tiny evil things that will end up in the CO's vacuum cleaner, in mom or dads floorboards, mom or dad's vacuum cleaner or somewhere outside.

 

If we are very, very lucky, some of them will actually last until they get to be replaced by the rank badge.

 

As a Cub Scout: WOW! COOL! GREAT! I want to earn the next one. I can't wait to tie this on my IR badge to show how far I have progressed.

 

Thing is, you always have at least 2 Tiger Cubs and possibly 1 Wolf who don't really know what the beads mean.May be that they weren't paying attention, or that they just forgot.

 

But in the 3 years I have been involved in scouting, I can tell you one thing for sure:

When those boys line up in front of everybody at the pack meetings...thier eyes light up when they get the beads.

They love being recognized for doing what they do.

 

And lets be honest: At their age ( not ours , mind you) even a whoile month to get a Bobcat badge seems like forever.

Now lets talk about an average time to earn your Tiger badge.... 5 months? The entire year perhaps? Anywhere in between?

At that age mentality....those beads are the "Atta Boy! Keep it up, you are getting closer!" that the Cubs NEED to hear!

 

So, not sure of your position..but explain to the DL that - wether "they alredy recieve enough awards" is his personal opinomn, his personal perception, and just like a favorite color...everybody has their own.

 

Maybe he thinks dessert isn't necessary. FIne, tell him not to eat it, But everybody else has their own thoughts, feelings and opinions about it.

 

If he doesn't give them the beads, he is taking a big chunck of THIER fun and excitement away from them.

 

If he just looks at you blankly, ask him this: What if his boss said that there would be no more year end/ Christmas bonuses or perks/ benefits anymore because the employees get enough money already! What if the bos just refused to do it? How would that DL feel?

[clemlaw 55]

>>>>Why be part of a group when you don't care to use the program they offer and don't care to take pride in the history of the group.

[83Eagle 11]

According to the Tiger Handbook, after a boy learns the motto, sign, and salute, "he is awarded the Tiger Cub Immediate Recognition Emblem," not "he may be." It also lumps the recognition emblem and track beads among the "recognition items" that "will be presented to them at a simple ceremony at a pack or den meeting."

 

It goes on to say that "A boy receives totem beads as he completes each part."

 

Sounds pretty clear to me, so if the TDL is not doing this he is not following the program and is cheating the boys. He should be told to do so by the CM, or the CM or the advancement coordinator should do it.

 

Besides the fact it is a program rule, what is important is not what the TDL wants as it relates to this issue, it is what the boys want. And I guarantee you the vast majority, if not all, of them will want the recognition.(This message has been edited by 83eagle)

[Scoutfish 16]

Clem,

 

>>>>Why be part of a group when you don't care to use the program they offer AND( emphasis mine) don't care to take pride in the history of the group.

[clemlaw 55]

Well, I just don't think that "refusing to teach" history is the same as being "ashamed of the history".

 

In my years as a Cub Scout back in the historical days, I don't recall ever once being "taught" history at a Den Meeting. In fact, I don't recall it ever once being mentioned.

 

That's not to say that it's a bad thing to do so. In fact, as I mentioned above, I had an old Cub Scout from the 1940's come in and talk to my Den. But that was never done when I was a Cub Scout. So the mere fact that I was talking about history was, in itself, a break from historical tradition.

 

Of course, when I was a Cub Scout, we didn't have any history yet.

 

And I still think that not handing out the beads is a pretty minor transgression, especially at the higher ranks. I guess that every Tiger I've seen has the beads, but unless the kids consistently leave them at home, in my Council, the "Advancement Toward Rank" totems are definitely not used by every pack, although it does indeed appear that "officially" they are supposed to be using them. The original poster never said what level this den was. If it's Tigers, then there's a stronger case for handing out the beads. But even then, I would ignore it if everything else is being run well. At the higher ranks, then it's even less of an issue.

 

The original poster asked "what should be done". My advice still stands--if the den leader is otherwise running a good program, then nothing should be done. If the original poster feels strongly that a history lesson should be included in the program, and if he can do it so that it's fun, then my advice is that he should do like I did and do it himself.

 

If the den leader in question is actually communicating to the members of his den that he holds the BSA's history in disdain, then something should be done. But merely refusing to "teach" history at den meetings is a non-issue. And so far, that's all he's been accused of. And "teaching" history lessons about the BSA is nowhere to be found in the Tiger program.

[CHLees3rd 10]

When I was a Cub Scout in the late 70's/early 80's, packs used the totem and beads and we Cubs loved them. We were awarded our Bobcat, Wolf, Bear at the next pack meeting once all requirements were met. The beads were the way we monitored how far ahead or behind you were with your friends. Plus, back then you could start working on your Bear as soon as you made Wolf, so wearing the red beads for completing Bear achievements made you stand out in the dens.

 

Nowadays, I see packs that wait until the Blue & Gold celebration to award all badges so I guess that the beads are not as popular as all Cubs are basically at the same point. Is it right? I do not think so. The beads are part of the program and are used to should how far along a Cub is towards his next badge and badges should be awarded once a Cub has earned his four beads. Since not all Cubs advance at the same pace as some miss meetings and/or activities, those Cubs who do the work should be getting the recognition immediately.

 

As far as the Den Leader not using them because the Cubs "already receive enough awards" is just wrong in my book. Seriously, who is he or she to say what is enough? Maybe there are a few Cubs who want them. And as for it being "a pain for leaders to keep track of them and hand the out," I really can't see why. What exactly is the problem? My Den Mother (that's what they were back then) use the the Advancement Chart and we as a den colored in out paw prints of our completed achievements. When we colored in three paw prints, we got a bead and we added it to the thong by untying and tying it. When we checked off ten arrowheads, we got them at the next pack meeting.

 

My mother solved the problem of taking the totem off of my shirt before washing it by making me do it. I clearly remember her telling me that she did care if the hanging thingy was on my pocket or not, my shirt was going in the wash. So as a young Cub, I took my totem off before putting my uniform in the wash. Never do for a Scout what he can do for himself!

 

Chazz Lees

[83Eagle 11]

This is not that hard. The book says the scout will get the totem and beads, period.

[clemlaw 55]

Yep, since there's a blatant refusal, there's only one solution to the problem. The den leader needs to be relieved of his position. If nobody else is willing to take the position, then the Tiger den should be disbanded.

 

If a pack is going to run a Tiger program, then it looks like they're required to hand out the beads. But there's no requirement to run the Tiger program in the first place.

 

So that should make everyone happy.

[83Eagle 11]

-sigh-

 

If you'll read my earlier response, I said:

 

"He should be told to do so by the CM, or the CM or the advancement coordinator should do it."

 

I don't know how this equates to being relieved of his position, but if you want to read it that way just to argue I'm not going to play along.(This message has been edited by 83eagle)

[clemlaw 55]

Well, it said that he had refused to do it, so I assume that he had already been asked.

 

But yes, the request should come from the Pack leadership. But if he still refuses, I don't see any other solution. (Apparently, it's not possible to hand out the beads at Pack meetings.)

 

Personally, I would just overlook it as a very minor offense. But apparently the original poster views it as being much more serious.

[Basementdweller 608]

Whose decision is it to use or not use Awards????? In my book it should be a pack committee decision and not something a single den leader should make on their own.

 

The immediate recognition totems is a waste, we hand them out and more than half the time that is the last time we will see them.

 

Of course how many activity patches have you handed out for them to simpley end up in the trash. Cleaning up after a pack meeting I usually collect 5 or more patches and pins from the floor, I hang on to them and if the boy comes looking for them I will give them to them. Of course we recycle them.

[Oak Tree 15]

The program is complicated. If the leader does some things to simplify it, good for him. Some years we used the beads, some years we didn't. The boys did not seem to care. They paid a lot more attention to belt loops. They do want to get their rank, but they didn't seem to pay much attention to the progress toward it.

 

This is a pretty minor issue. If you're going to war over this, you're undoubtedly going to find lots of other things to complain about as well.

 

Have you asked the den leader if you could help him out and take care of this part of the program? If you did, and he said no, then I'd just accept that he's not going to use that part of the program.

 

As for the history of Scouting, I'd say, "What?" There's no requirement to cover that. Let the Cubmaster do it, or do it at home, or don't worry about it.

[Jeffrey H 25]

A Den Leader should follow the Cub Scout program as closely as possible as given in the Handbooks. Further, they should be following the guidance of their Cubmaster and Pack Committee when delivering the program their Den.

 

Granted, we Cub Leaders may perceive some things in the Handbook as "silly", but what we consider "silly" is very enjoyable for a 7 to 8 year old. My Tigers enjoy enjoy getting the beads.

[clemlaw 55]

>>>>>>A Den Leader should follow the Cub Scout program as closely as possible as given

[CHLees3rd 10]

"If that's the only thing he's doing wrong, then I would do nothing."

 

I disagree. Things like this need to be addressed immediately because they tend to snowball into bigger issues if nothing is done. It has been my experience that when Scouters do not follow the program due to their own issues, it is very rare that they do everything else properly but just the one thing. Chances are they take liberties whenever they feel that they know what is best. We know the current issue is that the Den Leader is against the totem and beads. If nothing is done to change this practice, the Den Leader may decide against pins and only do belt loops. Does the pack approach then or it's not too big of a deal? What if the Den Leader decides that certain badge requirements are not really needed in today's world and just signs the off? Cubs are awarded badges they did not earn. Does the pack approach then or it's just not too big of a deal? Parents and Cubs from other dens may not like the practices of this particular Den Leader and may complain about unfair treatment and favoritism. Does the pack approach then? What if Cubs start to leave the pack? Does the pack say something then? When does it stop? Most of us would not allow our Scouts to make such decisions about their positions and jobs, so why should we allow this adult?

 

Chazz Lees