What should Pack pay for, for families in need?

[backpack 10]

We have three families that the pack is supporting, and are in desperate need of what we should pay for. We of course recognize that dues, rechartering, awards, and pinewood derby car kits. What we can't agree on is campouts, activities, WRC and Day Camps. The cubs can get camperships for WRC and Day Camp. We are also not paying for books, uniforms (council has a used uniform program) and equipment.

 

Does anyone have any definitive guidelines they use for determining need and what to pay for?

[SctDad 10]

Here is my personal opinion. I think that the books are something that should be paid for. This has the requirements that the parent needs to know so that the Cub can earn his next rank.

 

The other stuff that you pay for I can understand.

 

When you do fund raisers, how do you tell which boys benefit from the money. Look at it that way. IF a boy who comes from a needful family shows up at a yard sale with his parent and helps out all day, when others only come for half the day, he should be one to benefit from the proceeds. But if they are a needful family and tey do nothing to work for the funding, then that is something to consider when it comes time to wonder 'Do we pay the $25 for their trip to the day camp?' This is of course on a case by case basis.

 

I know it can be hard for some of the kids, they are trying and they can only help as much as the parents want to help. You really need to look at the effort the families are putting in. I have one family that is financially stable. The father is medically retired, but he is out collecting donations from collegues and business owners that he is friends with. His efforts paid for our Christmas party and Awards.

 

There are parents out there who do ot have a lick of money to their aname, but they are at every fund raiser and function, they are the ones that, not only should they benefit from the fundraisers, but you may want to look at them for your future leaders, they are showing potential leadership.

[backpack 10]

Thanks. I'm of that opinion also. Two of the boys are from one family, they participate in the activities, as does grandma (she takes care of 4 kids). They each have earned their rank, and participate in the fundraisers. I have no problem supporting them. The third, doesn't participate in the fundraising, hasn't earned his rank, and the parent won't even drop the kid off, we have to pick him up. We've had conversations similar to the participation, and told her that we won't sponsor him, if they don't step up.

 

Here's the next problem, some of the committee members want this in writing of what we'll pay and not pay. We'd go over with each parent, receiving help, as a sort of contract. We do expect participation, you may not be able to contribute financially, but you should be able to participate in volunteering.

 

What do you think of the writing document, and any further suggestions?

 

Thanks again!

[Pack212Scouter 10]

Our pack provides scholarship funds on an as needed basis. We had a very generous contribution a couple of years ago and the fun has always seemed to stay replenished. That said, we do look at who gets them. Their need, if they participate in fundraisers (help themselves), and if the parents or guardians help the pack in leadership or other ways. Our committee decided to handle it a little differently for confidentiality reasons. The decision and names are kept between the Committee Chair, the Cubmaster, and the Treasurer.

[Lisabob 13]

This is one of those places where I think having a written policy doesn't make sense. Too many variables that might enter into the picture from one family to another. It is seldom a good idea to write policy based on one experience as, once written, these types of things tend to take on a life of their own.

 

 

[msnowman 10]

Our pack has a couple of boys that are "scholarshipped" to varying degrees. We don't have a specific "need" policy. Rather we go on what we know or the parent tells us and go from there. We do take in to account how willing the parents and the boy are to help themselves. If they participate in fundraisers, etc they will get more help than those who don't bother to try to help themselves.

 

We have also had pretty good luck getting "sponsors" for boys in need. A few past leaders from the Pack, as well as some leaders in the Troop are willing to sponsor a boy's registration/rechartering fee to keep the child in Scouts. Some even sponsor for books, outings, etc - as works for the sponsor.

 

Regardless - we never turn a boy away simply because of money - they are usually the ones that need it the most. We have one of those boys right now. He is almost 100% scholarshipped, even to the extent of needing a ride to and from meetings. BUT - Mom does her best to help him with advancement, popcorn sales, baking for bake sales, helping in the kitchen if she can, etc. When the Pack committee is planning for an extra activity with costs involved we all pretty much do what it takes to get this boy where he needs to be.

 

Good luck and remember you are making a difference in their lives.

 

YiS

Michelle

[Oak Tree 15]

Unless you are dealing in high volumes of this, where you want to ensure fair treatment and have multiple people making decisions, then I don't think that you really want a policy written down in too much detail. I'd agree with treating each case individually.

 

Our policy is also that no boy should be denied an opportunity to participate due to finances.

[ScoutNut 147]

We pay for as much as possible for all of our boys. We do not want to lose a family because they can not afford Scouting and are to proud to ask for help.

 

Our families, on the whole, do a great job on our popcorn sale (our only fundraiser). We pay for all handbooks, neckers, slides, den numbers, red vests, council patches, Webelos tri-colors, beads, awards of all kinds, participation patches of all kinds, PWD kits, the Scouts cost for all Pack events, and we totaly subsidize our Pack family overnighters.

 

Our CO pays for all re-chartering/registration costs. They also maintain a fund to purchase uniforms if needed.

[Scouting Mom 10]

Our pack decides things like this on a case by case basis. Our CO pays for nothing...not one single dime. All of our money comes from our parents and fundraisers. Some years are leaner than others and some years we can afford to give all the boys much more in the way of benefits.

 

It is the general feeling of the current committee as well as most of the parents that I talk to, that if money is preventing participation by a scout, we (leaders and parents) need to do something about it. When I was collecting money for the last recharter, I had two different parents from two different dens come to me and ask if I knew of any family who needed financial help to recharter, since they were prepared to cover for them.

 

But one factor that comes into consideration is participation by the boy and his family. For example, we had one family in dire straits a few years ago. His parent became an ADL. The boy and his parents actively participated in most things. When it came to day camp, we told the family about camperships and also that day camp staff members got a boy in for free. The parents opted to work for it, knowing that lots of others who were much better off financially were doing the same.

 

When this family's situation changed, they stopped participating. Other parents offered to pick the boy up when his parents couldn't make it to meetings and events. The parent no longer fulfilled the ADL duties, despite encouragement from other leaders and offers of assistance. There was much more to their situation and money wasn't going to fix it. It eventually became pointless to cover their expenses...why pay to recharter a boy if he's not going to show up anyway?

[Lisabob 13]

About the participation, again I think it depends a lot on individual circumstances. We have had a few families where parents were not at all active and it can be easy to suppose that this is due to a lack of interest or a desire to get a hand-out or something like that. And in some cases it might even be true. On the other hand, maybe they have a heavy burden of family obligations, are working two or three jobs to make ends meet, or don't have a car (or can't afford the gas these days!). People who are struggling to get by also don't always want to share the details and sometimes retreat, rather than have to set aside their pride and tell all.

 

So sure, participation in fundraisers, etc., might be a worthy consideration, but on the other hand, don't assume you know for sure what people's attitudes about scouting are and don't judge them based on that criteria alone. Scouting should be an option for every boy, not just for those from comfortable and stable middle class/upper middle class backgrounds (not saying anybody here said that! Just pointing it out is all)

[Beavah 205]

Yah, I agree with Lisa'bob completely.

 

The only way to make these kinds of calls is to know the people well, not lock somethin' into policy. At the point when a family is overwhelmed financially they're often overwhelmed in other ways. They might need more of our support than just helpin' with finances. We've got a few National Guard folks whose breadwinners have been on deployment overseas; it's not just the finances, it's all the other pressures on the remaining parent. The best units are there for kids' families and show the spirit of Scouting in their everyday life.

 

I was at an EBOR for a lad at the end of last summer who was one of the best candidates I've seen in at least a few years. Not a typical high-achiever, but a boy who achieved highly if yeh get my drift. I know from bein' involved with the unit that they pretty much paid his way all 12 years of his career, right through high adventure outings and World Jambo. Deadbeat dad, mom who was tryin' to hold 2 jobs plus work on a degree just to get by. Grandma would send a small monthly amount out of her Social Security. He was clearly one of those cases where Scouting changed his life deeply, fundamentally, and forever. He's now goin' to be the first in his family to go to college, and the college is more than willin' to support him.

 

I don't think we ever want to miss those opportunities to fundamentally change a lad's life because we're trippin' over a written policy or quibblin' over nickles.

 

Beavah

 

[Gold Winger 9]

My son's troop always had a Scoutmaster fund that could be used to help out a Scout in need. Being a well heeled community, there weren't any Scouts in need.

 

Not quite true, there was a single mom who didn't make much but she never asked for financial assistance and wouldn't accept it if offered. Her sons were in uniform, at every meeting and went on every campout including summer camp. Never a whimper about cost.

 

The whiners about the cost of Scouting were the lawyers, doctors, and the macho guys who drove the big off-road trucks that never got dirty.

 

Funny thing about that. We asked one dad who had the giant 4x4 truck with trailer package to drag the troop trailer for a campout. "No way, it will get dirty" was the response. LOL!

[SctDad 10]

Effort plays a big part in my mind.

 

I have one parent who is one that I could see being one of the families that needs camperships and things like that. THe only thing that I am having a problem with is the fact that since our CHristmas Party on the 20th of December, I have been able to make contact with her 2 times. And those were only because I was passing her house on the way home, and I stopped in to drop off some materials for her. She E-mailed me one time ni reference to a campout that we were trying to go on. The e-mail was dates 00:30 on my e-mail. This is when she thought it appropriate to tell me they wouldn't be going camping. Even if the campout had still been on we would not have made plans for her, because she would not return calls.

 

Anyway, onto the topic. The uniform that her son wears, was purchased by another parent for her. No questions asked, just the understanding that if they left scouting, that she returned it to the pack for a uniform bank.

 

If she were participate, I would bet that there would be several parents that would help out for them to go camping and provide help in other ways.

 

That is why I think that every funding assistance should be on a case by case basis.

[Lisabob 13]

The problem with camp out, as was mentioned by people in another thread, could be resolved in the future by having a firm deadline so you aren't chasing people around for money (which is never fun).

 

OK so the real question is, why isn't she more active? This is a hard one to answer if you don't know her very well.

 

One option might be that she really isn't all that interested in the program, and given that she doesn't return phone calls, etc., as you have described elsewhere, this may very well be the case. Some people don't want to tell you to your face that they aren't very committed but instead will simply be unavailable.

 

Another option is that she is struggling to stay afloat and doesn't have a lot of spare resources (time, energy, concentration - not just cash) to devote to scouts. You mention elsewhere she has several kids and I think I remember that perhaps "dad" isn't a big part of the picture. Maybe she's barely above water and simply doesn't have anything else to devote to this endeavor. OR imagining further, maybe she has such a hard time committing time to the pack because other people in her life make shifting demands on her time. Again, not saying this IS the case for her, but I have known women who felt they could not commit to anything outside the home without their husband/boyfriend's explicit approval, which was then granted/withdrawn/granted/withdrawn as a power game. The result was that these women seemed to be ungrateful and uninterested in the effect their lack of communication and commitment was having on others, and yet what was really going on was they were trying to navigate the maze of an abusive relationship under very difficult conditions. So sometimes it is really hard to tell, from the outside, what is motivating people to behave in the ways they do and it can be easy to assume they are just rude or uninterested.

 

Of course it is impossible to make these kinds of judgments over the internet and sometimes almost as hard to make them (correctly, anyway) in a "live" setting, unless you know the person pretty well. But I can imagine situations where any of the above might be true and so I guess I'm advocating for people in general (not just you SctDad in this specific case) to take a step back before making that judgment based on participation.

 

But at the end of the day, someone who the parent reacts well to needs to ask them if they are planning to keep their child in scouting next year, and to mention that the pack would really like to help make that happen. If the parent says yes then personally I'd do whatever was needed to make it happen. If the parent says no or never responds then there's little you can do no matter what the reason for lack of response.

 

 

[Scouting Mom 10]

Don't get me wrong...we didn't stop the free ride for this boy just for lack of participation. We did a lot to encourage them to continue. I don't want to go into their personal business here, but as I said, money wasn't going to fix their problems anymore, so it became pointless to give them the funds to continue scouting if that was no longer going to happen regardless of how much money we threw at the problem or how much desire the boy had to continue. We weren't going to keep paying his membership fees to keep him in the pack on paper on the off chance that one day things would get better and he'd be back...if he were working at home on his rank, maybe, but that wasn't the case. The boy wanted scouts, his parents wanted scouts, but no amount of money was going to overcome the wide variety of issues they were facing. Does this boy NEED scouts...absolutely! But it was beyond our power to get him back.

 

My point in my original post was...1. They have to want to be in scouts. 2. They have to be willing to work with us in some way, to help make it happen and 3. Money has to be the answer...

 

What if a parent is down on scouts...doesn't really want the boy there, doesn't WANT to pay for it, regardless of if they can afford it, won't let the boy go to meetings, even when he's offered a ride or if neither the boy or his family have a desire to "help the pack go" whatever that means to you and to them? Will the "Cub Scout grow" if he can't or won't participate? Is it a wise investment to fund them or would that money be better used to support another family who can and wants to participate and for whom money WILL solve the problem?