Can't take much more, time for action

[cajuncody 10]

How much can one pack endure. Last night was the district awards banquet. Our "former" CM (yeah the lousy one) was given the "District Award of Merit" for all of his years of service and running Day camp for 5 years. He goes up there and our district commish says that "He retired as the CM and is now serving to the committe of pack ___" DOH!!! We don't want him, he was not asked to serve on the committee and I am still putting a temp committee together. Why does this man think he can just name himself to the committee?? Why can't he realize that the CO doesn't want him? Why can't he realize that the pack doesn't want him? Why can't he just go AWAY!!!

So, at our pinewood derby tomorrow I am going to ask every single parent if they want him on the committee (technicality) so that I don't look like it is just me wanting him gone, then I will just tell him that he is no longer needed in the pack and he shouldn't come back. I shouldn't have to do this but it seems to be the only way.

Can anyone suggest a good way to "show him the door"?

Kristi

[SemperParatus 1]

I'm sorry, but please refresh my memory why this man must be removed from a volunteer position with your pack?

 

Did you get the meeting room keys from him? Was the pack equipment that he supposedly bought with pack funds ever identified and resolved?(This message has been edited by SemperParatus)

[cajuncody 10]

I did get the keys. The equipment and money are still MIA. He talks for 30 min at every meeting instead of letting us have den meetings. We don't have "pack meetings", the boys never sing or do skits we learn in dens. Many many other problems. We are now down to 12 boys. 2 left last week because he is still here after retiring. He doesn't respect the church where we meet. He has interupted their meetings out of spite when they use the room we usually do . He has been rude to parents and boys. He is just not what a CM should have been and runs everything himself. No committee in the past because he ran it his way. Now I am forming a committee because he retired and he self proclaims himself Committee chair.

 

Kristi(This message has been edited by cajuncody)

[nldscout 18]

Where is the COR here. They are the one to appoint the CC. If the COR has appointed him the CC then you have lost this battle. Maybe its time to move to another pack or form a new one.

[SemperParatus 1]

I didn't get the impression he was the CC from your first post - I thought a CC had already ben recruited. As nld says, a person cannot proclaim themselves to be CC. He would need to be appointed by the COR, which sounds like they would not be willing to do. Do you have an 'official' CC now? Most of the problems with his performance as CM are in the past, especially now that you are the CM. Is there no hope of reaching out to use the talents that this man has (no matter how seemingly small they appear) in some constructive way to help rebuild your program? It does sound like you need all the help you can get. Granted, he may be a big reason why the program is in the shape it is in today, but surely there is some way he can still help. My suspicion is he didn't really want to retire and he is trying to find his way. Eventually, he will leave on his own as he sees your efforts are making his past 'efforts' look really bad. Any thought on letting time heal rather than descending into an ugly situation?(This message has been edited by SemperParatus)

[cajuncody 10]

Neither the COR or the CO appointed him. We didn't have a committee so I have formed a temp one with the adults we have available who are willing to help. I was hoping by getting a committee we can get on a better footing with the CO and not lose our charter. The former CM is the biggest reason we may lose it. I have asked a parent to fill in as CC until we progress (great parent with 5 children 1 wolf, twin future tigers and a year old boy with a sister thrown in to keep it interesting). He could bring longevity to the position and can get along with anyone. Plus with that many children we know he can mediate disputes. I have been thinking of asking the former CM to be Activities Chair to make the transistion to non leadership easier but I don't think the parents will go for it and neither will the CO.

Kristi

[SemperParatus 1]

Knowing your CO has been uninvolved in the past here is what I would do:

 

1. Arrange a meeting with the COR (and maybe the CO head), yourself and the CC candidate to sit down and discuss the scouting program, the function and duties that the CO has agreed to by virtue of its sponsorship, and some of the great plans you have for rebuilding the pack. Reach out to them. In the past they have been hands off - they may still want to be, but with the change in pack leadership it is a perfect opportunity to re-establish a better relationship.

 

2. Have the CC candidate complete the BSA Adult Application as CC and present it to the COR for signature. This can be done at the meeting with the CO, as part of the building of comfort between the CO and pack leaders. Make sure all background checks are performed and the rules followed and turn in the completed and signed app to the council and you have a CC. Clearly though, if the CO wants someone else to be CC then that must be respected.

 

3. Get the CC trained as soon as possible. The CC should begin building his committee - treasurer, advancement coordinator, etc. and working closely with you to support you CM functions.

 

4. You and the old CM have obvious issues. You can try and kick him out or look for ways to work with him. Personally, I would sit down with him in a nice quiet place and have a nice long chat with him about the future. Completely avoid the past. Share with him your concerns about 'disrupting' announcements (e.g., PWD announcement) and his continuing in the role of quasi-CM as he sees fit. Discuss how he envisions his continuation with the pack and how you envision where he may be of the most help. From the District Night announcement, it sounds like he is talking about committee work. Treasurer is out, I assume. Activities Chair may be a little too close for comfort for you - he may take that as being in charge of all activities. I would suggest putting his Day Camp experience to work and ask him if he would consider being the Pack's Day Camp Coordinator/Leader.

 

5. While it may be that many of the parents would like to see him go, you walking around at the PWD asking for each parent to cast a vote of 'no-confidence' on this man would IMO be inappropriate (personally satisfying maybe, but not very scout-like). From your posts, I think you are a very committed scouter with the boys best interests at heart - keep this positive, the boys are watching you too.

 

Best of luck.

[Bob White 20]

Cajun

 

Consider either getting comeone with the authority to make these decisions (the CC or CR) to deal this the cubmaster. Or get the charter organization institution head to make you the CR or the CC. Otherwise this really is out of your hands. A Wolf Den Leader has no business telling anyone they are not wanted in the unit no matter how many people may or may not fee that way.

 

I applaud your efforts to get things back on course but if you are not the CR or CC on the charter then you are way beyond your authority to take the actions you are suggesting.

[Eamonn 61]

Hi Kristi,

Much as it pains me to have to say it. You are out of order.

There is no such animal in the BSA as a temp committee.

Before you waste your time polling Parents and stirring them up, you need to see the unit Charter. While District Commissioners have been known to be wrong and at times talk through their hats, I find it odd that one of the people in the District that has a lot to do with charters would stand up and state something which you say is wrong. Please take my word for it there is a pack committee, if there wasn't there would be no pack. I of course don't know when the pack recharters? If the charter has just gone in the changes may have been made and he could be a member of the pack committee, or the Pack Committee Chairman.

As a Den Leader your job is leading the Den, getting caught up in what is happening with the Pack Committee and fighting with this man, is not serving the boys in your den.

If you feel that there has been some mistake or that the Charter has been allowed to go through without the correct signatures, the Council Registrar needs to be notified either by the COR or the Executive Officer. The same thing is true if a change of position went through, it would have required a new application with the correct signatures.

Reading the very large print between the lines, it does seem that you don't like this man very much. However it does seem that there are others who do not share this. In order to be awarded the District Award of Merit, which is the highest award a District can present to a individual, he had to be nominated and then the committee that selects those who will receive the award have to select him. I find it odd that he was asked to Direct Day Camp for five years if he is as bad as you have painted him?

While I'm sure that you feel what you are doing is in the best interests of the boys. I strongly suggest that you slow down. Take a long hard look at the Scout Oath and Law, double check that everything that you are doing and want to do falls within the boundaries of the Oath and Law and then check again!! While it is not in black and white there is in Scouting floating around an idea that if we can't say something good about someone the best thing to do is say nothing. Save your conversation with the parents, no matter how you go about it, there is no way it is covered by the Oath and Law.

You might ask the CO if they could check on the Unit Charter and see who is down as doing what. While you are talking with the CO you might want to suggest that it is time to think about forming a Nominating Committee you could offer to serve on the Nominating Committee. Once this committee has met and selected people that could serve you again could offer to one of the asking team. This is when you meet with people face to face, not to bring someone down but in the hope of building something which is good and worth while up.

Eamonn.

 

[cajuncody 10]

Ok, maybe I was a little vague. I am not a den leader any more. I am on our pack charter as the CM. The former CM is no where on our charter. The committee members listed on the charter left 3 years ago with their boys. The former CM has been doing everything. He retired, passed the pack to me at our blue and gold. THe DE told me that the merit award was for his work with Day camp, that was even stated at the award ceremony. This is no great and fine leader. We have pack money missing. We have adults who wittnessed him spending pack money by a pack check on personal items. He has nearly cost us our charter. I am losing families because they aren't interested in listening to him talk for half the meeting time every time we meet. He won't pass on financial records he says he just knows whether or not we have money, no bank statements. The CO doesn't want him around but doesn't want the responsibility of telling him to go away as the pastor is new. I have 25 boys whose parents have said will rejoin when he is gone.

As for Day Camp, our district day camp is a joke. Out of all scouts in our area (these numbers were read at roundtable) 4% attend our day camp. Everyone else goes somewhere else. Last daycamp I was bumming wood kits from Lowes because he failed to have a back up plan and the shooting sports guy didn't show up. District and Council are paying to send me to Day Camp School so that I can replace him in the directors chair.

This isn't the personal quest of mine that it sounds like. I want my son and all the boys to have a good experience in scouts and he didn't provide it then he retired. You can't run the pack if you aren't a member, which he isn't.

I have spoken with the CO to get a new COR so that we may properly form a committee but I need something functioning until then. We are broke so we need a treasurer and fundraising chair. Other than a recruitment chair that is all I have done so far. CO wants recomendations for CC as they know nothing about us as people. I may be out of line but it is only to get us back in sight of the line.

Kristi

[johndaigler 10]

Kristi, you've moved into the CM role, right? Even that, still wouldn't give you the "authority" to do what you would like in this case.

 

-Can this ol' cm serve the Pack as Troop Liaison?

-Pack Trainer?

-Seeker-Outer of guest Speakers?

-The District guys seem to like him, maybe there's a Commissioner role or something for him? Sounds like the guy you want to promote out of the Pack's immediate environment. If he does Day Camp, for the Council, does he also do Webelos Woods and other Outdoor activities?

-District Trainer?? (BALOO??)

 

 

 

Do you use the suggested Pack Meeting agenda in the Leaders Book? Maybe you could organize the meetings without (and to eliminate) his participation?

 

Good Luck,

 

jd

 

[Torveaux 10]

I recommend this course of action....

 

You are the official CM, right? Do you have an official CC? If not, coordinate with the COR and get your charter information updated so the 'temp' CC becomes the official CC. (ditto any other committee positions)

 

Next, move the meeting place and/or time. If this guy is not on the committee and does not have a child in your program, I see little he can do to force himself into your home for a meeting.

 

Once you have a couple of meetings without him and get your new Pack leadership comfortable with their positions, move your meetings back to the old location and time. Before the first of this set of meetings, talk to the DE about finding this guy a role as a District volunteer. If that will not work, have him be the FOS coordinator or some other position that is not really part of your meetings (to avoid disruptions). It sounds as though he identifies himself with Scouting so much that he cannot let go of the Pack. Perhaps if he is otherwise occupied, he may not be so interested in trying to get into your businesses running a quality unit.

 

I hope whomever is the new CC has enough gumption to control a meeting.

 

I am praying for your success. We are scheduled to have our first 'new' committee meeting this weekend and it should be interesting. The new CM thinks he runs the whole show because the last CM functioned as CC as well. Now we have a highly qualified CC (Eagle with District and higher experience...Philmont, WB, OA, etc.). Both are motivated in the right way, but the CM thinks that everyone answers to him. It may take a few months for them to stake out territory. I am the new AC as well as DL. I just want to have a good program for the kids and avoid the fireworks, if any.

[cajuncody 10]

I agree, he could do some good somewhere else. However, here in our pack and community he is not well received. He is very controlling. He serves as a camp site host at our council summer camps and does very well with boy scouts since it is boy run. He is an Eagle Scout so he knows how the program is supposed to runbut just doesn't do it that way with cubs.

With money missing though it has soured alot of people. Add on top of that the constant interuption of our meetings and the fact that he said "Since I am no longer CM that makes me CC right?" to a group of parents at the last meeting. They are the ones who left.

If he would just move on and let us recover.

Kristi

[Bob White 20]

While you may be totally correct in your evaluation of the personand the problem, you have no more authority in the matter than you had as a Den leader. As the CM you are responsible for the program. You have no authority in the disposition of this person or any persons role in the pack.

 

Please consider what Eamonn and I have shared with you. Unless you get the CC and CR to make this decision you are well out of the boundaries in your role with the pack.

 

Sorry to see you have such a problem in the pack.

 

BW

 

 

[cajuncody 10]

But that is the problem. We don't have a CC and the COR just found out he was COR when I called him with the info on the charter. The CC listed on the Charter moved out of the area. The COR and the CO don't know what their responsibilities are. I am working with the DE to educate them but I really need some support from other members of the pack. I can't do it all my self, nor would I want too plus as you all have pointed out it isn't my problem. If we don't get a committee quick and get rid of this guy we may not be able to pull out of this downward spiral. Of course I could go back to being den leader. The shame is that is about all that is left now. The den has stayed with me.

Kristi(This message has been edited by cajuncody)