Are all Packs like this?

[NewCubDad]

OK, here goes.

 

Last spring my son brought home a flyer for cub scouts. We filled in our information and returned the form to the Pack. No response.

 

Roundup came by and we attended the meeting at night. Apparently there was an expectation that the applications would be filled out completely and dues paid on the spot. Two days later, I received information about where to send the application.

 

Then we find out that there are 'too many' wolves in an existing den and a new den will need to be formed with the boys who signed up at the roundup. None of the new families has been in scouting and we were expected to select a Den Leader, Assistant Den Leader, and someone to track awards. With the threat of dissolving the Den, one family agreed to take on the Assistant Den Leader role as well as the tracking duties. After a couple of informal meetings (the leader was given the Program Helps & proceeded to use the Tiger program), I agreed to take on the Den Leader role and get trained so the program would take on some direction.

 

Since that time, I have had my adult volunteer application lost, been the sole Pack representative at the council roundtable, been to a "Parent Committee Meeting" where no parents showed and several Den Leaders didn't show, noticed that the Pack dues are a) higher than most Packs ($60) and b) not collected from existing members regularly.

 

I've also noticed that the Pack meetings aren't programmed so that each Den has a role, the whole thing is centered around a single Den each month. Since we were formed after the calendar was created, our Den has no roles in any of the Pack meetings this year. (Seems odd to me, looking at the Pack meeting guides & suggestions)

 

Basically, I don't know if this is typical of other Packs.

 

After doing my own research and taking the Leader Training, I feel like the outline for success as a Den/Pack is laid out pretty clearly and it appears that my Pack isn't really on board with the program. I kind of expected the Pack leadership to be more 'On the Ball' and involved with new leader training as well as parent involvement and theme planning. It feels like each Den is operating independently.

 

In short, are my expectations too high?

[Bob White]

First Welcome to Scouting.

 

Second there is a good news/bad news/good news/bad news/good news, to this story.

 

The good news is that many, many packs operate just fine, with lots of families, lots or organization, and lots of fun.

 

The bad news is that as packs change in membership, leadership shifts and not all adults take the needed training to be able to deliver a good program.

 

The good news is the training, resources, and support exist to help any pack have a great Scouting experience.

 

The bad news is the leaders in your pack have obviously not taken advantage of these opportunities.

 

The good news...is you. You have already stepped forward as a volunteer, you have evaluated the the situation and see the hurdles between your cubs and a good program. All you need now is the knowledge to overcome these hurdles and you have taken the first step to a resolution. You have asked for help.

 

Here are my suggestions.

 

Gather the forces. Get as many other adults as you can to follow you to training.

You need to contact your district training chair

and get a New Leader Essentials Training (2hours) and the Cub Leader Job Specific Training (3-hours) for every volunteer in the pack you can get to participate.

 

Focus on your job. Do the best you can do in what your job is. No one can expect more of you.

 

Be supportive. When you see others doing the best they can to do their role in scouting, let them know you recognize that effort.

 

Have fun with the boys. They do not care about the adult problems in your pack. They care about having fun as cub scouts.

 

Hang in their New Dad, you can be a life-long memory in the life of a den of cubs. You can do this!

 

BW

[johndaigler]

Welcome, NewCubDad!!!!!!

 

BW, as usual, has explained it pretty clearly.

 

You are not on your own, though -- even at those moments when it feels like it. This electronic campfire is perfect for you. You'll find more help here, quicker and clearer than anywhere else!!! Ask a question or search these forums for a topic and you'll find opinions and answers from some truly wonderful Scouters. They'll help, advise, offer options, and redirect when you're joyfully, or angrily, sprinting down the wrong path!!

 

The BSA has lots of good resources for you to access through your Pack, Scout Office or on-line --- use them all!!! Sounds like you've seen the Program Helps. There's also the Cub Scout Leader Book, the How-To Book, the Song Book, Guide to Safe Scouting, and of course the boys' Handbooks, and others.

 

It doesn't sound like your Pack is doing much that follows THE Program. That may frustrate you, but for the most part it doesn't have to slow you down much. You can do the right thing with your den and watch as the rest slowly start to get it.

 

It's been hard for me not to be angry with Pack Leaders (I'm a first year Wolf Leader, also) who don't seem to get it. And it's taken me a few months, but I'm slowly figuring out that if I do the right things with my boys, everything else starts to lose its power to frustrate me. My boys are having a blast, and learning tons! Second graders talk to other 2nd graders and word gets around -- we grew so fast we had to split and we're still too big! All the chaos that exists in the Pack really doesn't seem to matter to the boys -- and so I slowly came to realize it needn't matter so much to me.

 

My Den and I are slowly having an impact on everyone else and the pack is changing and growing more, now that I've stopped hammering with a sledge hammer about the evils of the world and started spending more time celebrating the good things my boys do, and the cautious baby steps I see others taking.

 

Sorry to carry on. Simply, there's tons of support here for you -- experienced Scouters and newbies who are in the exact same boat as you at the exact same time. There's a lot of work in your future -- don't forget to take breathers -- but if you remember to have FUN with a PURPOSE, you'll do great!!

 

We all wish you well!!! Keep in touch!!!

 

jd

 

 

[NewCubDad]

Thanks guys,

 

It sounds like I might have a bit of "Newbie" frustration combined with an apathetic leadership.

 

As far as implementing the program, I have taken steps to make sure we have an adequate meeting place, utilizing Progam Helps, the Leader Handbook, Monthly Roundtables, Baloo's Bugle, etc. for things for the kids to do. The parents are starting to sign off in the Handbooks, the kids are leafing through the handbooks by themselves and we're on our way.

 

I've also requested (a couple of times) a list of those who expressed interest in joining, but didn't join, for whatever reason. I'm also working to co-ordinate with other dens on fieldtrips and offering to have the boys perform songs, skits, etc. at the pack meetings that the other dens are 'hosting.'

 

So (I hope) I'm setting things up for a better experience - not just for our Den - but for others in the Pack.

 

One other thing I've noticed in reviewing the topics posted here is that our Pack doesn't appear to have the leadership structure that is needed. It seems that the only 'committee' around is the 'Parent Committee' that includes the CC, CM, the Treasurer and some DLs. Should I inquire at the council offices whether they are aware of this? or should I just keep plugging away at my Den and hope that things work themselves out?

 

It's tough to sit back when the number of scouts in our area is declining. Poor administration and a lack of planning & excitement at the leadership level doesn't help to attract and keep scouts (in my humble opinion).

 

Thanks again for your input

 

[Bob White]

The Council has little to no authority over the structure other than making sure there are sufficient volunteers registered to fulfill the charter requirements.

 

Where you want to turn is to the Charter Organization head or the Charter Organization representative. The council office can tell you who in your unit holds that office.

 

BW

[EagleInKY]

Keep the faith, Newbie!

 

I would first concentrate on your den. Make sure your guys are having a great time and following the program. Build your strength from within your group.

 

Second, get everyone trained. Drag as many of your fellow den leaders to it, kicking and screaming if you have to. Same goes for your council Pow Wow or University of Scouting. These are usually held during the next few months. They are a great place to learn more about the program from your peers.

 

I came into a pack that sounded even worse than the situation you were in. I led a Tiger den and tried not to interfere too much with the pack organization (or is that dis-organization). My second year, I was asked to take over the CM job. The pack made a great turnaround - not just because of me - but because of a group of leaders that had seen what I did with my den and decided to trust and follow along to make the whole unit better. I'm now gone on to Boy Scouts, but that Pack remains one of the strongest in the Council.

[NewCubDad]

The continuing story.....

 

Last night was the Pack meeting. In the first 5 minutes the CM confirmed what I'd learned this week, no one in the Pack (other than the CM) knew the name of the Charter Organization. He then went on to tell the Pack and rant about the ACLU and their attacks on scouting - pretty inappropriate for a Pack meeting, I think.

 

After a while we got to the awards. What happened to making awards a special event for the kids? The CM called the Dens up, read the names off the cards, handed the awards to the boys, and sent them back to their seats.

 

We finally got to the Bobcat Badge awards and I'd arranged for him to call up the parents as well as the children for the ceremony and (I thought) explained that the awards were to go to the parents to pin them to the boys shirts. You know, to promote that family involvement aspect of scouting.

 

--Aggghhh - the guy muffed his lines and then proceeded to hand the awards directly to the boys without even slowing down for pictures to be taken.

 

I'm a little frustrated because I've got 5 boys new to scouting and I'm trying to generate some excitement with them & their parents. I feel like I need to apologize now...

 

I think I answered my earlier question - Yes, my expectations are too high for this group.

[OneHour]

NewCubDad, been in your shoes before ... seven years ago. I got the "newbie" frustration which resulted in my becoming the Den Leader, Cubmaster, Committee Chair, Webelos Den Leader and now an Assistant Scoutmaster. I learned the BSA ways as much as I can. I got me some help from the parents in the den & I implemented what I learned and what I think is fun at the Den level first. After I learned the rope, I took on the making a difference at the Pack level. When it comes to volunteering, there will always be challenges. As long as you stay your course, others will jump on the bandwagon. If you're not careful, you might get hooked, too!

 

Hang tight and have fun (with your son and his four new friends).

 

1Hour(This message has been edited by OneHour)

[johndaigler]

OneHour's career path seems familiar -- I'll bet it's pretty accurate for a big chunk of us!! If you care enough to get frustrated by a faulty local program, you can bet you're just about to VOLUNTEER for some heavy lifting!!!

 

NewCubDad, just because your story is too common, don't get the wrong idea. There are tens of Thousands of Cubs and Boy Scouts in every state in this country. It just takes a caring adult like yourself to bring a local Pack closer to the many quality programs that exist all around us.

 

You're primed to do great things! Remember to celebrate all the good you're doing for each boy that comes into contact with you. It's hard but don't spend time fretting over the boys whom you aren't impacting . . . yet. Cubs and Parents recognize quality effort and quality caring. Be patient and keep working, and sooner than you'd guess the whole Pack will be turning toward you and the Quality Program you've set as a goal for yourself. Of course, you'll be running the show (CM, CC?!), so it'll be a lot easier AND at that point, you can blame yourself for whatever good/bad is happening for all those boys you aren't reaching today!!

 

As far as your Bobcat Ceremony, I don't think you need to apologize for anything. Your Cub parents aren't dumb, they get what happenend, and who's responsible for what. The real question is how are you going to make today better than yesterday.

 

 

My Bobcats went through a slightly better (just barely)fiasco of a ceremony the other night. I felt exactly the same angst you did. Instead of ranting (which I would have done a few weeks ago), I chose a different approach. Here's a piece of an email I sent to all our pack Leaders:

 

"Thanks, *****, for the Bobcat ceremony. It was a highlight for all my boys -- and for my son Jamie, without hesitation, the favorite part. I know the ceremony didn't come off exactly as planned, but that shows one of the things that I love about Scouting. None of it is about military precision or correct details -- it's about celebrating the boys, and having fun. "Do your best" isn't just something we help the boys memorize, but it's something we truly believe and honor. All those boys, and we as a Pack are better today than we were yesterday because of last night, and all its parts, and all its people."

 

And here's one leaders response:

 

I agree with John, last night was a successful meeting and I must also say that **** did a great job with the Bobcat Cermony! I feel strongly that the Pack Meetings are a time to really recognize the accomplishments of the boys and the value of the ceremony was obvious as we could see the boys and how proud they were! (In fact, Den 2's 4th-year veterans commented "Wow, they're lucky to have a cool ceremony, we didn't have one like that") Great job to ****!

 

It wasn't about faking it either, my email was truthful and sincere. It's just about looking at things a little differently. All you have to do is start rolling the snowball down the hill . . .

 

"Yesterday's gone -- Let's start thinkin' about Tomorrow."

 

Chin Up, Good Luck,

 

jd

 

 

[ScoutNut]

Hey, if you have a Cubmaster and Committee Chair who are 2 different people, from 2 different families, you are a step ahead of a lot of Packs! Seriously, a Committee of a CC, CM, Treas, & DL's is not to awful. That is basicly who we have attend most of our Committee meetings. Our COR stops by occasionaly, usually when he has some news of interest. We have a standing invite for any parent to attend, our meeting dates are listed in our calendar, but none ever come.

 

At your next Committee meeting you need to bring the CM to task for his rant on the ACLU. You are right, the Pack meeting was not the place for this. Bring up your concerns with how the Pack meeting went. This is the place to get any problems straightened out for next month's Pack meeting.

 

One suggestion, ask if you can do the awards for your Den at the Pack meetings. Then find a fun way to present them to your boys that will have everyone wanting more the next month! Pratice a Den cheer with your boys, something with a LOUD wolf howl would be nice! Then at the end of their awards have the boys give their Den cheer REAL LOUD! That might wake up some of the other dens!

 

Getting past the baggie & handshake can be hard if it is ingrained in the Pack. Do what you can to change it for your Den at least and others might see how much fun it is and try different things for themselves.

 

BTW - flubs happen. Last June I had this great color changing ceremony I put together for all of the dens for their graduation. Water changed to a different color for each den to signify that they were ready to move up a level. Worked great, looked spify. I gave the ceremony to the Asst CM (my hubby) to run while I and some of the other DL's changed scarves, slides, and books. At one point I looked up and noticed that not only were the boys all gathered around the FRONT of the table watching the colors change, but that my rather large ACM guy was pouring the water while standing in FRONT of the table as well. Hissing, waving and even having my son, a Den Chief, tug him back, made no difference. When the next den came up he would be back in front pouring away and the boys would be right there with him, ooooh'ng & ahhhhh'ng. Of course no one else had a clue what was going on because they could not see it!!

 

 

[SWScouter]

I second ScoutNut's suggestion that you do the awards for your den. Just do it. When the den goes up, thank the CM for the floor and get going. Don't give him time to "forget" that you're going to do the presentation.

 

SWScouter

[NewCubDad]

First of all, my rants are limited to this forum as I am in no mood to undermine my own efforts with my den, my Pack, and my son.

I've already started looking ahead & had considered asking to do my Den awards in the future. The advice received here is further confirmation that I'm heading in the right direction.

I also understand that we're not looking for military precision and things will not always (ever?) go as planned. But I think the "Make It Fun" part needs to at least be in the planning.

And yes, I did send an apology to the parents. I called each of them the night before and let them know that part of scouting 'Tradition' is to have the parents award the badges to their boys. I felt it was a bit of a letdown when they just stood there....And I made a promise that the same thing WILL NOT HAPPEN at the wolf ceremony.

Anyway, a new day has dawned!

 

I'm getting to know the other leaders & I'm bouncing program ideas, fieldtrip plans, and Pack meeting roles off them and getting helpful, if not enthused, involvement from most of them.

The CC actually found my application form and got it in the hands of the COR!!

I took some Univ. of Scouting brochures to the Pack meeting and someone actually took one!

So it's not all about the rant, but cripes, you gotta blow off steam sometime.

[NewCubDad]

It's been brought to my attention that my last post may have been a bit out of line.

 

I apologize, my comments were a bit too direct and not cloaked in the flowery prose of an experienced correspondant.

 

I meant no offense or ill will towards any of you who took the time to respond to my questions and I'm certainly not offended or upset by anything that's been posted in response to my questions.

 

Again, thank you very much for your advice.

[ScoutNut]

Hey, everyone is entitled to a rant now and then. As a matter of fact, some of us carry our soap boxes in our back pocket the easier to pull out at a moments notice! LOL !

 

I also understand that you do not want to "undermine" your position with your Pack. However, a part of every committee meeting is (or should be) going over what worked and what didn't at the last Pack meeting. Politics, either pertaining to the BSA or not, has no place in a meeting that should have, as it's main purpose, the recognition of the boys. I am very suprised that nobody brought that up at your next Committee meeting. Of course, if everyone is just used to the CM doing this ALL the time, than that's a horse of a different color (& not a very pretty color!).

 

OK - I'm off my box now!

 

Good Luck & Remember - KISMIF !!!!!

 

[NewCubDad]

thanks ScoutNut

 

The committee meeting isn't until 12/7, so I'll get a chance to address the CM's comment at that meeting. Hopefully in a diplomatic manner.

 

I'm not too concerned so much about undermining my position in the Pack. Being so new, I don't have much to lose. It's the attitude of the boys in the Pack, Den & family that I don't want to undermine. Ranting to them while trying to build enthusiasm seems pretty counter-productive.

 

Venting/ranting/complaining is done (for now). I'm focusing my energies on Den Meetings and plans for a guerrilla-style silliness attack on the Pack Meeting in December - with escalation to full-out silliness war in January....spread the news.