Camps first week how much slack do you give

[ASM59 10]

Hello,

 

We just finished up at our local council camp. It was one of the worst camps from an organizational stand-point that I've ever been a part of.

For example:

- At check in, they were making all boys and adults take their temperature. They were not using probe covers on the thermometers that they used. They were wiping with an alcohol pad and rinsing with water. When it was my turn, I confronted them and was told that BSA National was mandating that temps be taken if youd had flu symptoms in the last 2 weeks. Other Troop leaders were very angry as they had been told they must take a temp or be sent home.

- There was only one lifeguard at the water front to teach Swimming Merit Badge. She ended up with 15 boys in the first year program (about equally split in three different swim ability groups) and 3 other scouts that signed up for Swimming MB. She was expected to instruct the Non-swimmers and Beginners in instructional swim and teach the Swimming MB to this group of 18 boys in a one hour period. All of the other lifeguards (except the one in the tower) had been given other duties or MB's to teach and could not help. It was a disaster for the boys taking the MB and very stressful on Staff.

- This lifeguard ended up going home on Wednesday evening with blood poisoning (from a cut on the foot and mud at the waterfront). The first year Scouts ended up with all their Swimming MB requirements signed off on Thursday, by the Staff that took over. My Scouts that were in that program tell me that they only did about 1/3 of the remaining requirements, not all the ones that were signed off on their blue cards.

- On Friday, the first year Scouts did their 5 mile hike (this is why all their Swim requirements had to be finished Thursday, no one informed the Swim MB counselor that these scouts would miss swimming on Friday). On the hike 8 boys and 2 staff got lost. The main group returned to the first year program area, but the lost ones did not. Staff sat for an hour and did not notify anyone. There was no trek plan filed. When the lost ones found their way back, they did not go to the program area as they were supposed to, so a count of Scouts and Adults was never taken. There could have been missing Scouts and we wouldn't have known till a Scoutmaster missed one at dinner 3 hours later. Fortunately, all Scouts did come back.

- On Friday, the camp ran out of ammunition for the rifle range. Boys taking the rifle MB were unable to finish qualifying.

- On Family night two of our families were told they couldn't purchase meal tickets because all available meals had been sold. These were families with small children who had come out to visit their son and who had pre-registered so meals would be available. Apparently there was nothing in place to track who was pre-registered and who was not. So, many families were turned away that night and either had to go without dinner, or had to go off-site for their dinner. After the fact, we found out that 50 meals went un-sold, even though families were turned away.

- We spoke to several staff members who were worried about getting fired as a result of not getting their paperwork (MB cards and such) done on time. They worked on the paperwork during meals as they had no down time otherwise. There was no time to interact with campers and get to know them. The staff seemed to be quite stressed.

 

I could go on, but these are some of the major problems. It was like the Program Director and Camp Director had never put together a week of camp before. I know this is not the case as both are returning this year. I cannot explain why there was one problem right after another.

 

I guess my question is; can all of this be chalked up to it being the first week of camp? Should we give them some slack? How much slack do you give?

 

Thanks,

ASM59

 

[dg98adams 18]

I manage the Aquatic skills for our Troop as well as Swim Defense and Safety Afloat for the council.

 

A life guard functioning as the sole lifeguard and a swim instructor is not safe. Qualified look outs and other help would be needed, especially at the water front where visibility is an issue.

 

At the Y, I can have 25 swimmers, but I am NOT in the water running a class.

 

Instructing non-swimmers AND swimmers at the same time does not sound like a safe way to manage the class. The Lifeguard that went home and the replacement not knowing what was completed....ok, just skipping it, bad.

 

Friday's at our camp is a "make-up" day for most MB's (Scouts aren't encouraged to skip earlier MB sessions to depend on Friday to catch up - rain, supplies, etc) , so running out of ammo on Friday would not really be a big deal. I would have hoped those taking the MB or needing to qualify had priority.

 

5 Mile hike for new Scouts...should not have been run by Scouts not having a course laid out. This is a definite Staffing problem for the camp director/program.

 

The Family night dinners, especially if pre-paid is a definite issue for the camp director/program.

 

I would address all your issues in writing to the SE (cc the Camping Director).

 

He knows Troops choose next years camp, based on this years camp.

 

(This message has been edited by dg98adams)

[shortridge 184]

Running a summer camp is like running a small city, from top to bottom. So you're going to have some problems, especially in the first week ... supply shortages, burnt food, scheduling snafus. That just comes with the territory.

 

The real question is how the staff handles those problems.

 

- Short-staffed at the waterfront? The camp commissioner, program director or camp director comes down and helps out until they've found another staffer to fill in. That's a safety issue.

 

- Lost Scouts? Yeah, Scouts are going to get lost at camp - nothing new about that. But the fact that the staff didn't file a trip plan and didn't follow proper procedures for a lost camper is very troubling. That should be drilled in during staff week so it's second nature.

 

- Ammo shortage? The shooting sports staff should be well aware of this in advance. You can tell how much you're running through in a given day and then add it up. And .22 ammunition is easy to get - a staff member could have been dispatched to the local Wal-Mart on Thursday night or Friday morning, solving the problem.

 

- I've never seen families turned away because all meals were sold. That's incredibly poor customer service. If 30 extra people show up without notice, yes, it might be a problem, particularly in seating. But if a family shows up that pre-registered, the camp director should have been all over that situation making sure they were fed.

 

- The only paperwork that most staff should have to deal with are attendance sheets and blue cards or their equivalent. It takes perhaps 10-15 minutes a day if you stay on top of it during the week. They may be stressed, but paperwork shouldn't be the cause.

[Lisabob 13]

That sounds awful, and inexcusable, even for a first week. I hope you had a chat with the program director and whoever supervises staff. (Those might be two separate people, depending on how the camp is set up).

 

I've run summer camps. First-week problems happen. But not like what you are describing, unless the camp is severely under-staffed, the staff has not been trained and showed up like the day before camp opened, and/or the folks at the top are not listening to their staffers' concerns.

 

I am willing to bet that things will not improve dramatically as the summer goes on. Probably several staffers will quit in disgust, leaving the remaining staff spread still more thinly across the camp. While it is likely that next year, someone else will be running the show, I think it is also likely that attendance will be down considerably, as a result of what you are describing. I know I wouldn't take my troop back to a camp like that.

 

 

[mikecummings157 10]

We attend summer camp the 1st week every year and have never seen this kind of chaos. All minor issues and the staff always goes above and beyond to make things right immediately. We like the 1st week because the staff is fresh and enthusiastic.

 

BTW- we just got back from summer camp yestersay and we didn't have our temperatures taken. We just had to confirm that nobody had flu-like symptoms in the last few weeks and we were good to go.

 

If the same Camp Director is going to be at your camp next year, it might be time to find a new camp.

[John-in-KC 311]

Here are the things I would do:

 

1) Have your IH/COR write a business letter to the SE and the Council President. The tone of the letter should remind them that their side of the Charter Agreement is to deliver program, including LT camping opportunities. Cite specific issues, including the re-use of disposable medical supplies, the lack of staff at Aquatics, and the lack of meals for guests.

 

2) Bring this to your PLC. Ask them if they want to return to Camp Runamuck in 2010. If not, while summer is still going, have them research the neighboring Council Camps.

 

BTW, here are the specific words for the Council, from the BSA Charter Agreement:

 

- Provide year-round training, service, and program resources to the organization and its unit(s).

 

- Provide camping facilities, a service center, and a full-time professional staff to assist the organization in every way possible.

[Lisabob 13]

ASM59, roughly where are you located? Maybe folks can offer you some nearby alternatives to check out for next summer. John's advice (see them in operation now!) is really good.

[OldGreyEagle 5]

A rhetorical quesiton if I may,

 

How much slack will you cut the First Year Scout who has a knot signed off and can't tie it?

 

How much slack do you cut a scout who is supposed to know the signs of a heart attack and can only come up with pain in the chest?

 

[scoutldr 732]

There are two rules of Nature...never buy v1.0 of anything and never go to Week 1 of camp :-)We always expect Week 1 to be a little bumpy...new staff who need to work out the wrinkles, menu adjustments, supply issues, etc.. But what you described is a nightmare and people who were clearly out of their league. It might be more effective if dissatisfied parents wrote the letters to the SE, mentioning the word "refund" (yeah, good luck with that). I agree with the comment...it's how the challenges were handled that is disturbing. Not running the "lost scout" drill and having an unsafe waterfront program is inexcusable...better to shut it down until adequate trained staff can be hired. At our camp, we pre-register for MB months in advance...that way there's no excuse for not having enough staff. Be Prepared!

[raisinemright 13]

We just got back a week ago. Sure, there were a few first week jitters. There was only one thing that was above and beyond though. The speedboat was broken and in the shop. They still ran the waterskiing and motorboating MB's but had no boat. Every scout wasted time and money and were not able to complete their badge.

 

I would assume that the money was to be refunded.

 

Beyond that, camp was very good.

 

[Hal_Crawford 15]

Our troop always goes to week one and while there are always bumps we have never experienced anything remotely like what ASM59 has described.

 

As a service to the other units in your council you should put all of this in an e-mail to your SE, the head of the council camping committee, the council president and anyone else you think appropriate. The solution needs to start at 0800 tomorrow! I say that because yesterday is not an option. Truly, the SE should be in his car now, heading to camp to find and fix the problem.

 

Others have pointed out the obvious safety concerns. I am also concerned about the "I might get fired" atmosphere among the staff. That is a serious red flag as to the health of the organization. People choose to work at camp because it is fun; it isn't for the money or prestige. No one should be in fear of there job because of paperwork. On the other hand, the CD and PD and possibly the Aquatics director should be deeply concerned about their continued employment. The issues here are safety and management style.

 

Seriously, get in touch with the SE now.

Hal

[Eamonn 61]

I have been at camp when things are going as well as they should.

While I may well have had other plans, most times someone has asked me to come and lend a hand.

Of course if I was a nicer person, I should have volunteered before I was asked and maybe not have had a little moan and groan as I was helping.

We have all made an oath that has something about helping other in it.

For the good of all the Scouts in camp I would hope that many of the adults in camp might have seen what was going on and stepped up to the plate.

At our camp the SM's and SPL's have an opportunity to meet with the Camp Director and Program Director before they leave to go over the good and not so things. "Feedback is a gift".

At this meeting I would not cut anyone any slack! But when things were not going well I hope I would have done my part to help fix the problem.

Eamonn

[ASM59 10]

Regarding the reporting of these issues; we (adult members of our Troop) definitely made our voices heard during the camp week. All of the problems that I listed in my original post have been taken to the Program Director and Camp Director. It is well known that the Camp Director plans not to be back next year. The Program Director was hired from out of our Council last year and is back this year. In a candid moment with him, he shared that he is frustrated because the Council will not give him what he needs to run a better program. He apparently has ideas, but no backing from the Council. He said that because of this, he would not be back next year.

 

Three years ago we went to this, our local Council camp, and had many problems; although not as bad as this year. As a result of the problems, the adults and Scouts made the decision to go out of Council. We did that for the last two years. We had a great time and did not see any of these types of problems at the out of Council camp. About mid-week this year, the boys started asking if we could go back to the out of Council camp next year. Even our first year boys who had only heard stories about that camp were asking to go there next year. I think the PLC and the Adults have already decided that it will be an out of Council camp again next year.

 

With regard to helping out: When I told the lifeguard that I was a Swimming MB counselor and that I could help, I basically became a member of the waterfront staff from Monday to Wednesday, helping with Swimming MB and instructional swim. When I learned of the lifeguard going home, I called her mother and found out it was blood poisoning due to getting her foot cut at the waterfront and the deep mud (18 inches deep in places) that must have been teaming with bacteria. Since I had cuts on my feet, I decided to stay out of the mud on Thursday & Friday to let them heal. Thursday & Friday I helped with knots instruction and flag etiquette in the first year program area. One of our other adults, helped out with the Canoe MB. Like was said, hopefully there were others helping out around camp.

 

Well, it seems the consensus is that this is too much to just overlook. I think Ill mention the option to contact the SE and/or the Camping Committee regarding the problems that we experienced.

 

Thanks for your thoughts,

ASM59

[ASM59 10]

With regard to where we are located, I hate to finger our camp by name, so I will just say be wary of a Camp in northern Illinois that is only running 3 weeks of camp with the third week having only 3 Troops on camp. Other neighboring camps are running 4 to 5 weeks and their weeks are mostly full.

 

I already have a list of all the camps within a 4 hour drive, along with a summary of what each camp offers and their 2009 camp prices. We'll be sharing that list with the PLC, but more than likely we'll be back at the same camp we went to the last 2 years.

 

Thanks again for your comments,

ASM59

(This message has been edited by ASM59)

[John-in-KC 311]

OGE,

 

Dried apples and beef jerky, my friend.

 

The young Scout is the object of the program. We expect him to learn by making mistakes.

 

Scout Camp should be the program event of the Council's program year. We hire, train (NCS), and evaluate staff. We procure resources. Lots of us spend our summers, falls, and winters helping make the camp ready for the next season.

 

BTW, from what various Professional Service members have told me, Scout Camp is supposed to at least pay for itself. It's not to be a loss leader.

 

Customer service matters. Since I've served as a camp commish, if asked to assist, heck yes, I will. That said, assisting does not cover the matter of not having enough disposable protective covers for the thermometer. Assisting does not cover the kitchen not having any meals in reserve.

 

From what the OP wrote, I think it would have been a grand thing had the Region Camp Visitation team shown up on opening day. Might have made for exciting times on this camps 2009 accreditation.