Personal Locator Beacons

[GernBlansten]

Ok, everyone has heard the story from MT Hood. People and dog get in trouble. The dog had a PLB. The dog saved the day.

 

I've done some research and found REI has these for $450.

http://www.rei.com/category/40002203.htm

Basically, if activated it sends a signal to the international SAR sats and search and rescue is notified, they hone in on your signal. Sailors have been using the same system called EPIRB for years.

 

I've stated previously on this forum that I like to take solo hikes. I like to climb mountains. I like to take scouts into the wilderness. And my son is a type 1 diabetic and we are heading to Philmont this summer.

$450 seems like a bargain considering the risks we take.

 

Anyone else considering getting one of these?

 

BTW, cell phones don't work where we play. SAT phones are really expensive but another practical solution.

[local1400]

Gern, I respect your sound advice in your posts. But I am dismayed at the surge to buy GPS and PLB's for wilderness play. I like to hike and camp the old fashioned way-with knowledge and experience. I think if one plans a trip with a possible rescue in mind, that person doesn't belong in the woods in the first place!

[OldGreyEagle]

I think the idea of a Personal Locator Beacon is fine, but in a program where the cost of a uniform seems to draw the ire of quite a few people, what would a $450 PLB do?

[GernBlansten]

In my twenties, I would never have considered such a device. If I couldn't self rescue, I was determined to become a permanent addition to the wild. It was part of the adventure.

Now as I get older, grayer and have the responsibility of other people's children, my attitude changed.

I would never use a PLB for a sprained ankle or headache, but I would if hopelessly lost or injured to the point requiring evacuation. I can see abuse of them. Crying wolf syndrome.

 

I already have a GPS, was an early adopter. I don't take it on hikes anymore. I've found it useless. I don't take cell phones on hikes. I find them useless too, at least in the wilderness. But PLBs are like avalance peeps. If you need one, it just might save your life. But I'm not advocating PLBs for every scout or unit. Just curious if others are considering them.

 

On a side note, how would you respond to a parent who insisted his scout carry one on your next campout?

[local1400]

I would tell any parent that a Scout who is trained and follws the rules would have no use for one (Stay in one place, use buddy system, etc...). But would not push the issue but remind the parent the consequences of a false alarm. I read a story about a canoeist in NY who got into trouble and used one. Fine. He went back to retrieve his gear, couldn't find it and pulled the hook again! He was fined and billed for the second "rescue". I'm glad you don't use that useless GPS thing anymore. I'm not into gadgets. Heck, I just bought this info box I spend too much time on 6 months ago. Could I live without it? Yes, but I love this forum and the people here. Oooops, gotta go shut off my big screen t.v.- all 13 inches of it!

[SR540Beaver]

No offense intended Gern, but even as much as I enjoy solitude, I find it foolish for people to tempt fate by going into the wilderness alone. Even the most seasoned veteran can get himself in a jam. We all remember the experienced lone hiker who had to amputate his own arm in order to self rescue. He was darned lucky to be able to reach a knife to sever the skin, fat, muscle and tendons and also a rock to crush the bone to seperate it. He was also lucky to not bleed to death. On one hand, I feel badly for him that he had to lose an arm and had to actually cut it off himself. On the other hand, I don't feel sorry for him at all for knowingly doing something so risky. While the individual person might be willing to take that risk, there are loved ones back home who will be affected by the loss. Setting off a PLB after 30 minutes or so of not being able to roll the boulder off of his arm might have saved his arm.

 

For those who insist on going into the wilderness alone, a PLB is a smart choice to avoid the pitfalls of natural selection.

 

Being a type 1 diabetic and heading into the Pecos Wilderness to backpack with a crew this summer has had me looking at renting a sat phone or looking into PLB's. I believe they have their place. Everyone needs to be aware that there are rules for their use. You will pay stiff penalties if you set off your beacon when self rescue is deemed possible. It is a last resort. You don't set one off when you lock your keys in your vehicle at the trailhead and a storm is coming.

 

Had the guys who died and disappeared on Mt. Hood a couple of months ago had a PLB, at least their bodies could have been recovered if not their lives saved since SAR can pinpoint their location.

[SWScouter]

A few years ago there was a solo hiker that got his arm stuck in a rock. He made it out after cutting his arm off to get free. I imagine he could have made good use of a PLB. His two mistakes, being alone and getting his arm stuck. He was experienced and knowledgable.

 

A PLB would be helpful if one was somehow incapacitated. Knowledge and experience are important but sometimes having the means to get someone to come to you is better than you trying to get to them.

 

I have a GPS, I like using it. Mostly I use it to keep track of where I've been. When I get home I overlay my tracks on the TOPO map program I have. It's nice to build a record of all my hikes and be able to easily see where the trail is on a topo map.

 

I have several books that describe lots of hikes near where I live. Most of those hikes are discribed in words and have some hand sketched maps that show the trails. Usually I can transpose the hike unto a topo map without too much trouble but other times it is very difficult. Other times I know where the trail starts and ends, it would be nice to know where the trail goes in between. A database of GPS tracks from people hiking the trails would be very nice.

 

I know how to use a map and compass. I know how to orient the map, look at my surroundings and figure out where I'm located. It can be very difficult if not close to impossible at times if there are no distinguishing geographical features near by. Is that mesa two miles away or twenty? Where do I go to get out of this dark timber so I can see anything? This plateau is pretty flat for several miles around me, what now? Pulling out the GPS and getting my current coordinates really is helpful.

 

We all know the scout motto, "be prepared." There are times and places where a PLB and/or a GPS will certainly help us be prepared.

 

SWScouter

[GernBlansten]

Like riding harleys without a brain bucket or sky diving or skiing faster than 10 MPH, solo hiking also holds its allure even though it is not the wisest thing to do. But we deviate.

 

Local1400, your advise is wise. Be prepared, follow the guidelines. If lost, stay put. If hurt, send your buddy for help. But in either of those situations, SAR will be dispatched. The PLB will allow them to locate you much quicker with fewer personnel. You actually reduce the burden on them.

 

Now if its your intention to skip common sense and use the PLB as the "easy" button, then I agree, don't venture out. But if used as a tool in a worst case scenario, just like carrying a space blanket or whistle, if you have the resources, why not?

 

We had a debate at our committee meeting regarding scouts and cell phones. Our SM, a purist, wanted to ban them from campouts. Although I agree with his intent, a cell phone is a very powerful tool for a lost/injured scout.

 

Several years ago, before my time in the troop and before cell phones were synonymous with teenagers, our unit lost a scout on a campout. He didn't follow the buddy system, he didn't stay put. SAR was called out, the news trucks showed up, helicopters hovered, dogs barked, the scout leadership didn't sleep, the scout was found safe by the next morning. Had he had a cell phone or (PLB), the situation would have been much different. We decided in committee that we would not ban the cell phone, but require the scout leave it off if he brings it.

 

Now, if that situation had been today, and we had a troop policy that banned cell phones on campouts, what angle do you think the media would gravitate? Can you imagine explaining to the bubble headed news blonde that you force your charges to not use technology available to them? In today's world, "Be Prepared" means having your cell phone.

[kenk]

I purchased a PLB w/ internal GPS at the end of last year. The purchase had absolutely nothing to do with Scouting. My scouts will not be put in a situation where a PLB might be needed. If I had a venture crew things might be different.

 

My family likes to travel to areas that are not covered by cell phones and we tend to like to drive on the side roads where traffic is not very heavy and hike back a ways off the roads. After the James Kim tragedy my wife & I decided the price for a PLB was reasonable insurance for safety.

 

I don't buy the idea that PLB's are simply gadgets - they save lives. I don't buy the idea that PLB's encourage risk-taking. A PLB with an internal GPS can bring help to you very fast. A satellite phone wouldn't have helped James Kim much since he didn't really know where he was, though he might have been able to give an approximate location. The real problem with satellite phones is their very high cost.

 

If you do buy one, please spend the extra for the one with an internal GPS. To understand why, read this VERY good independent review of PLB's:

 

http://www.equipped.org/406_beacon_test2_toc.htm

 

Even if you get one, don't forget you'll need to be equipped to be able to survive until help arrives (first aid, knife, shelter, warmth, fire, water), AND you'll want signalling gear to help them find you (whistle, bright flashlight/headlamp, signal mirror, fire)

[local1400]

OK Gern, I see your point. You and I are both in the hills and like here I'm sure you have plenty of rescues there of people who don't have the skills to be doing what they are trying to do. Even some rescuers have died here when the rescuee was found safe. The mountains are unforgiving. Sometimes you gotta know your limits and when to turn around instead of forging ahead. And your mountains are twice as big as mine!

[scoutingagain]

"I think the idea of a Personal Locator Beacon is fine, but in a program where the cost of a uniform seems to draw the ire of quite a few people, what would a $450 PLB do? "

 

True, but where a typical high adventure trip to a BSA High adventure base might cost more than $1000 per person, (Our council contingent's cost pp to Philmont this summer is in excess of $1800.) $450 for a PLB for a small unit planning their own high adventure trek outside the organized confines of a BSA base seems like a wise investment.

 

While on my own I might subscribe to local1400's philosophy, however, as an adult leader who might consider taking a group of other peoples' offspring into the wilderness...well I don't think I'd leave home without one.

 

SA

 

[Trevorum]

The decision to invest in a PLB comes down to ones sense of risk management. How likely are you to be in a situation where the device would save lives?

 

Personally, I'd rather invest in an Automatic External Defbrillator (AED). I think that investment would have a MUCH greater chance of saving lives. Of course, the troop sees me as one of the "old guys", so I may be biased.

 

[GernBlansten]

Nah, Trev. I learned in Wilderness First Aid that all you need for a AED is two wet coconut halfs, a glass rod and a wool sweater. "OK Johnny, I'll hold the coconuts on his chest, you rub the rod real fast with the sweater then touch my left ear with it. READY? CLEAR!"

[SR540Beaver]

Trev: "How likely are you to be in a situation where the device would save lives?"

 

Let's keep in mind that the castaways on Gilligan's Island were only going on a 3 hour cruise! Be prepared!

 

Gern, are you related to the Professor?

[Trevorum]

Beav, I really hate to break this to you, but - brace yourself - Gilligan's Island was not real. I know, I know, it seemed so authentic, but that was merely exeptionally good scripting and superlative acting.