Philmont - new Patrol readiness - skills vs teamwork

[ps56k 10]

snip'd from a newsgroup thread -

--

We have a group going to Philmont in 2005....

They are the older scouts that have mostly split from the Troop, setup a Crew - but don't really attend to those meetings & events either...

We are concerned about their lack of acquired camping skills, along with not working together as a team.

 

Anyway - wonder if it makes any sense to form a "Philmont Patrol" and have those Scouts start doing things as a special group

vs just being part of the normal Troop - on weekend outings -(if they attend)

ie - have to plan & backpack their food, cooking, maybe even tents vs having other items avail - coolers, car trunk, trailer, etc

 

Just wondering what others have done for first timers ? We have had various hikes from 5 to 10 miles and they were supposed to bring a backpack with 20lbs...

Have not heard yet who has showed up or how it went, but not much in the camping area as a team, just a hike on a crushed gravel path.

 

-----------

It was a long time ago - 1976 to be precise...

 

An other adult and I took 10 scouts - 2 were my sons and 2 were his - all older and most were Eagles. We did no training at all. My oldest son was elected Crew Chief.

 

We went in a Winnebago and took 3 full weeks. We got AAA tour books and our planning consisted of what we wanted to see and where we

wanted to stop. We stopped at 6 Flags and the Indian Village in OK then turned south thru TX to Albuquerque. It's 5,000 feet and I thought we should get acclimated to the altitude. We spent the night in Cimmaron to wash clothes, swim, etc., before we went to Philmont.

 

No blisters, no scratches and all except the adults could have jogged the trails.

 

My grandsons went separately 22 and 24 years later. The troop they were in trained by walking up and down stairs with 40# packs. The

leaders decided only one boy couldn't make the trip. One grandson was Crew Chief, the other was not. They had pack inspection at least twice before the trip. They were quick out and quick back.

 

I think your answer depends on the caliber of boys making the trip. If you have well-conditioned senior boys, just make sure they know how to read topo maps and build a fire and set up camp in the rain. If they are not I think you should have concentrated training.

 

As far as a separate patrol, my sons troop put senior boys in a separate patrol as far back as 1970. They usually had separate campouts but a few always went with the troop also. All the participants with our group were in the senior patrol except for 2 scouts from other towns who knew through OA that we were going and asked to be included.

----------------

 

Gee, that sounds a lot like what a Crew should be planning and doing.

----------------

 

Having returned from Philmont as advisor for a Council trek in July, I have a question. Did you unit get a trek reservation or are you part

of a Council contingent?

 

If you are part of a contingent, the trek leader - crew advisor should have a plan for preparation already in place. If this is a unit trek, much of the information you would find useful is on the Website below.

 

http://www.lns.cornell.edu/~seb/philmont.html

 

One resource that consolidates this information is the "Philmont Advisor's Guide" by Coop Wright and Wally Feurtado. Coop is and has been crew advisor for a number of years.

 

Quoted from the above site:

 

"The "Philmont Advisor's Guide" published by Cooper Wright and Wally Feurtado is an independent publication containing some of the

information in the "official" guides, and a lot of information gleaned from years (literally) of experience taking crews to Philmont by the authors with ideas and updates from other Philmont advisors. It might be compared to one of the "... for Dummies" guides you see for computer software because it goes behind the "Users Manual" and gives

you alot of what works and why information about Philmont. This guide is available for around $10 by contacting CoopWri...@aol.com. Sales of the guide help fund the high adventure activities of the Venturing

Crew Coop is the advisor for."

 

As for forming a "Philmont Patrol", I don't know. As a council trek, we had Scouts from the troops represented (who were not going on the trek) join us on our prep hikes and backpackers. My own opinion is that, if this is a unit trek, isn't this what Scouts should be doing anyway? In my own troop, I have Scouts who can't stand backpacking. We make sure that they are not excluded from Troop activities. Of course, the PLC does this through the planning process when the year is

planned out. Some outings end up being added as "extras" for those interested in ackacking, etc.

--------------------------

 

[Eagle69 46]

I have never been to Philmont, but ran a High Adventure Backpacking troop for a number of years and for 6 years we took a 7-10 day backpacking trip every summer. Based on this I would say it is highly adviseable to get them out so they get used to using their gear, get in shape and get used to working together. The trip will be much more enjoyable for all if you do this. As far as making them a separate patrol so they can get this experience: if your troop doesn't do this type of activity on a regular basis then it wouldn't hurt to go this route.

[EagleBeaver 10]

Our troop is sending a crew to Philmont in 2005. Being in flatland Minnesota, the elevation will be the challenge. To prepare, the crew is scheduling hikes separate from the troop so yes they are working as a separate patrol.

The crew members will be earning the Hiking merit badge through their prep work for Philmont and the actual trek.

This crew will have 5 scouts that are just over the age requirements, so its a young crew. But, 2 re(This message has been edited by mn_scout)

[EagleBeaver 10]

But, 2 repeat Philmonters are on the crew also.

 

Paul

 

[Double Eagle 128]

I'm all for a philmont crew. The second time I went we had one. Many of us were from the first time and knew each other outside philmont. We had a great time. The seasoned crew can be used to share their experience with inexperienced crews. If they give resistance, compromise by keeping the patrol for their aid with the other crews.

[johndaigler 10]

Granted, it was 75 and 76 when I went, but . . .

The actual treks at Philmont varied greatly. one year it was 56 miles - moderate. The other year was something like 106 miles - strenuous.

So, I guess my question would be: What are you getting yourself into?

 

Working as a team is vital. Teenagers is decent shape is important, but as I recall they're pretty resilient. If you're going strenuous though, you probably need to prepare or just be taking senior scouts. The younger boys could w

[ps56k 10]

Just wondering as a comparison, getting a group ready for a trip north to BWCA vs getting ready for a trip out west to Philmont. I don't recall any special readiness for the BWCA trip, they just showed up.

 

[Mike F 10]

I was contingent leader for 2 crews in Boundary Waters in 2003 and 3 crews at Philmont in 2004.

Learned lots of lessons.

Biggest one is the importance of working as crews prior to trip. We form crews that function much like patrols during the build-up before the trip. Guys elect a Crew Leader. In many ways, he functions as a PL, but all members of the crews maintain their current status in the troop and regular troop leadership positions, too. Gotta be clear - first priority is supporting the troop. We also made an issue out of only allowing active members of the troop to participate in the troop's high-adventure activities. If you want to take part in the very best opportunities our troop has to offer, then you need to be active in the troop in order to earn the privilege to participate.

It's really important for the crews to spend time together bonding as a crew - learning to work efficiently together. This should include some camping as a crew, but there's a lot to be gained by doing some other fun stuff, like going out for pizza, going to a movie, going bowling, etc. Include the adult advisors - they are part of the crew, too.

 

Based on my recent experience, I would say Philmont is more physically (and mentally) challenging. You're on the go all the time, legs churning and lungs hurting for oxygen. The effort to get in top shape will pay off big time. Aerobic training (jogging, biking, etc.) is the best - gets the cardiovascular system tuned up. Strength training for those leg muscles is a close second. Training hikes with 40-45 pound packs get the whole system used to the load. If you're going out for a weekend, be sure and get a good hike in on Sunday before you head home. It's not too bad to grind out 10 miles on Saturday. Saddling up and doing another 5 or more two days in a row when the legs are hurting is more like the real deal. Strongly consider spending a couple of days/nights at high altitude before you get to Philmont. Last summer we spent two nights in Colorado Springs with a strenuous day hike to 9500' and we hit the ground running when we got to Philmont (coming from sea level home). Another skill that you might want to work on is map/compass. If the guys aren't already good at it, invest some time to make sure they understand the basics very well and get them on some trails where they really need to depend on their skills. Finally, get the Philmont Advisors Guide from CoopWright@aol.com - it's worth it!

 

For BWCA, more emphasis on upper body strength. Think about paddling into the wind for an hour, then loading everything onto your shoulders to hump a portage. Having said that, you'll gain strength and endurance fast on the water. Rather than having everyone report to the gym, I'd spend more time working on teamwork and efficiency. Get the gear organized for efficient portages. (I've seen crews that jumped out of the canoes, loaded everything up, and completed the portage in one trip. Other crews left stuff behind and had to make 2 - or 3 trips. Huge time sink.) During shakedown campouts, practice efficient camping skills. When you hit camp, everyone has a job and camp is set up in a jiffy. (Same true for Philmont.) Before we went in 2003, we did 2 day-long canoe trips and 1 overnighter. I think the day trips were of marginal utility, except to hone some dull canoing skills.

 

Happy hiking!

 

-mike