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gcnphkr

NYLT Patch

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I dropped my son off for his summer at camp. While waiting in line to get him all checked in I noticed a large number of scouts with their NYLT participation patch above the right pocket. There was one with in on the right pocket. I asked his dad what was up with the patches. He said that everyone was putting it above the pocket because that is where the NYLT Staff wore it, but that he knew that was incorrect.

 

At the troop meeting last night the scout that attended last week's NYLT had me sign off on his "goals". He gave me an envelope with his NYLT patch with a letter from the Course Director explaining that the scout should be given the patch when he completes his goals and that he should wear it about the right pocket.

 

grrrr...

 

Permutations of this have been going around for years. A few summers ago my son went to NAYLE and was told that the patch goes above the pocket because it is a national event. On that occasion I sent an email to Irving to get clarification and just as the Insignia Guide states that position is reserved for Jamboree.

 

Now, I don't care about the youth. I am glad they went to NYLT and would never tell them to change it. But COURSE DIRECTORS should know better.

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For whatever reason, a lot of folks think the NYLT, and it's predecessor JLTC patches go in the jambo spot in my neck of the woods. When I was a uniform inspection judge at a district camporee, I had to inform a lot of scouts, and adults as well, that it was being worn in the incorrect spot. Had some complaints, but when you show them the Insignia Guide, they really can be ticked off at you since you are now giving them the correct information.

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>

 

 

Wow! An actual Uniform Policeman! I didn't think you guys actually existed!

 

I'm guessing this earned you a lot of grief?

 

 

 

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Yep I got a lot of grief, both at the event itself, and about 12 years later when discussing this on myscouting.org. Long story short I was drafted to do the uniform inspections at camporee, which is an event the patrols get points for and is usually what breaks any ties, b/c A) I was the DE and had no favorite units and B) I worked PT for supply while in college so I had a good bit of knowledge (aside: after being a DE I went back to Supply FT).

 

Anyway I got lots of grief at the event for telling people that they were wearing things incorrectly which would affect their patrol's score. Both youth and adults were upset, but most got over it when I showed them the sections of the IG that showed them the correct info.

 

I got lots of grief 10 year later b/c I also had a sewing kit, which included scissors, and I told folks that I would give them a chance to correct their uniform if they wanted too. Some folks said that was too much, some folks said I was unfair for not giving them points for incorrect uniforming, etc.

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This quickly fell into the uniform police bashing mode.

So ... those who feel that it's inappropriate to wear an NYLT patch above the pocket, are they all the dreaded patch police? Give me a break.

I wouldn't hesitate to make a big fuss over it. It's wrong, and NYLT staff and participants should be taught what's proper. It's not hard.

Fix it.

BDPT00

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I sent off a email to the DE in charge of NYLT who promptly sent me off to the volunteer in charge. The volunteer is a fellow Beaver from Woodbadge, so hopefully he will listen.

 

It isn't a bad idea. It makes them stand out and does promote the program which is a good thing. But they should teach them correctly

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Hopefully the DE and volunteer in charge won't say, "we don't care, that's how it's always been worn here, and we aint changing it" or words to that affect. Yep one of my coworkers and the JLTC SM basically told em that when I asked them about it, and told them it's incorrectly worn.

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And I wouldn't hesitate.

Done it many times (including NAYLE staffers).

BDPT00

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I have to agree with BDPT00. I'm skeptical of the "Uniform Police" as much as anyone else, but I also think its important that those on the training staff do not knowingly give out incorrect information. I personally don't get too fussed up when a given uniform isn't quite to specification, but there is in fact a correct way to wear the uniform, and I don't think training courses should deliberately encourage incorrect uniforming.

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SP,

 

I don't know how the uniform inspection became part of the judging for the district camporee, but it's been around so long that when you try to change it, everyone says "No." From what I was told, the uniform inspections tends to be the tie breaker, which is one reason why no one wants to get rid of it I bet.

 

I admit there were some initial complaints from folks, but once things were explained to them, and I gave folks the opportunity to fix things before the inspection, there were no problems. heck I get more grief over that inspection on these forums than I did at the event. As for the reason why the IG was at the event, I was advised to bring a copy by camporee staff.

 

Folks viewed me as trustworthy since I had no history with any unit or CO.I tried to be friendly in my approach to the scouts in informing them of the any uniforming problems, and tried to be helpful in providing the materials needed to fix the matter if they wanted to. Some folks did say they were not going to correct the problem, which was their prerogative. When confronted by leaders, I explained why things were incorrect, and if they asked to see where it was written, and most did, I courteously pointed out the passages in the IG.

 

The key to talking about uniforming is to be friendly, courteous and helpful. I've encountered the stereotypical uniform policeman with the rude, unscoutlike approach,a nd yes it did leave a bitter taste in my mouth. But I met one guy who used the Scout like approach above, and you get better responses.

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Jet,

I think I was standing in line in front of you checking in my son at Camp Raymond Sunday.....

 

I've seen NYLT staff patches up above the right pocket for many years. NYLT patches I usually don't ever see those on uniforms at all.

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"But COURSE DIRECTORS should know better."

 

They DO know better. But some folks just like to be "special". And anyone that naively thinks it's just a misunderstanding gets demeaned as the dreaded so-called uniform police with no life.

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It was good to see the patches, I was surprised at how many there were. The more scouts that go to NYLT the better. I'd say it was in part the requirement that anyone wanting to be SPL, ASPL or PL at Jamboree had to complete NYLT.

 

There were a few staff patches.

 

I do wish more would go to NAYLE.

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"Correcting a council staff member's uniform (given the right opportunity) before he "models" correct uniforming (among many other things) need not be demeaning,.."

 

The whole "uniform police" label comes from "special" folks that know what they do is not correct and take offense when some well-meaning person naively believes they just don't know, and informs them. They then get demeaned and slapped with the UP label.

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Fscouter,

 

Not to play Devil's Advocate, I am a member of the Uniform Police ( you had to read my thread at myscouting.org entitled "...YOU MIGHT BE A UNIFORM POLICEMAN" ;) ) but I have met folks who were over zealous, demeaning, and not scoutlike when correcting others in regards to uniforming. So I do understand why some folks do get upset as it is based upon their own expereinces.

 

Like I said I've encountered the bad ones. Sometimes you can have fun with them :). I remember when the Venturing shorts first came out a year after Venturing was created. In the council I was in at the time, folks were still wearing the green shorts and pants because they wanted the "official" version ( despite venturing nor requiring the "official version." Anyway I got a hold of the official version asn was wearing them, when one of the bad UPs came out. WELL let's just say he got real embarrased after screaming at me form across a field about not wearing the official green pants or shorts, and I infomred him that I was wearing hte new venturing shorts that just became available that week. He turned bright red in embarrassment.

 

Again the key to informing folks on uniforms is be polite, courteous and diplomatic,.

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