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bdjvegas

World Crest with Wood Badge beads patch!

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Well i'm kinda of an old fogey. 9/10 of the time I wear my smokey bear, and wear a necker. Your are dead on about BSA neckers, I have a few and wear them, BUT I love the custom and European ones I have. and I do wear them as well as they were wither gifted to me or I traded for them. Hopefully I can talk my pack into doing a custom one for the leaders, as several have expressed interest in wearing one, but think the BSA ones are too small.

 

Ok I admit I gussied up my JLT staff. I put three shields (eagle, vigil, and WC), a turks head, and painted blue polka dots with my POR at the top (staff insignia was a blue polka dot ribbon).

 

However i am trying to make my new one utilitarian and used the diagrams as my basis. Got the inches and feet marked, 50' of paracord, wilderness survival stuff burnt onto it, and did the surveying and "survival kit" holes on it. Unfortunately you can't do all that with the the high tech ones. Plus the old fashion ones are a great conversations starter(This message has been edited by eagle92)

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Eagle92, that's good stuff. The neckerchiefs, and variety of staves, these things spark a scout's interest in the true roots of scouting. Sometimes I look at all the BSA equipment these days and get a little overwhelmed at the sheer quantity and how high-tech it is (I'm an old fogey too). For example, I still have and use a Yucca pack at times. It has its limitations, but what a functional, inexpensive, durable item to just throw in a canteen, poncho and a lunch, and hit the trail.

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Yes the yucca is awesome. Wife got me an old canvas version for Christmas one year, and I my sons have used it when they "camped" in the backyard. heck wife stole it for her trip this weekend :)

 

Yes there is alot of swank in the BSA catalog

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I think the point of some people including me, a fairly new leader with very little knowledge of the program until I joined as an adult a couple of years back,is how some of this adults in my area (and around the country) like to throw their beads and training in the non wb's trained people insinuating that they know it all and the others don't with a hollyier than thou attitute. I have witness adults disrespecting others to the point of offense with the "this is my Pack/Troop" attitude and don't embarrased me in front of others,if you don't like it you can leave ,thanks for your time but you are not welcome here anymore, all in the name of "I have my wb beads and what do you have to show for?" making other leaders non wb trained feel like our time as volunteers is less worth than theirs.

I understand that is not all, but the few give the hole group a bad name. In my area they are a big number .

Just come in, do your work and respect every adult volunteer equally, wether you eat,breath and sleep scouts or is just a parent with a life besides scouts wanting to help.

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Desertrat77, something to consider, not every WB registrant has a middle management or above position. I unerastadnw at you mean about Wood Badge being a rehash of material you have already seen, but not everyone has the same background as you.

 

As I understand it, the idea is to give managerial skills and exposire to everyone in the language so we underastand each other. In the Troop I serve there are Doctors, University Professors, hourly construction workers, etc which I woudl think mirror many troops. The idea of Wood Badge is to lay out princiles that not everyione may know or understand.

 

That Wood Badgers can be jerks is not surprising, any group of people has a jerk component. I keep gettig told in my Council since I did 21rst Century Wood Badge I can never be as good a Scouter as those who took the last "real" course. That's why I was so grateful to Kudu when he told me it hasn't been Real Wood Badge since 1972, the guys tormenting me are as big a poser as I am supposed to be.

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I for one am not discounting the value of WB to those who have not had the corporate training. I'm sure its great. And fun. But don't look down your noses at those of us who do not wish to rehash it over two weekends when our employers make us do it every two years anywhoo. Y'all seem to think BSA has a corner on leadership training. Hey, guys, corporate America has been doing it for over 20 years, in week long retreats too!

 

We don't have the critter songs though. Maybe that alone will make it worth the time. That and the bling.

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I am not a Woodbadger yet, but as a way to raise a few dollars for my OA Chapter, I sold a bunch of those World Crest Wood Badge patches and I always sold all of them at various scouting events, usually dinners. No one complains, and there are some instances when the beads are not prudent to wear, so the patch is the identity. Yes, it's not legal, but no one has ever chastized me for selling them.

 

As for the dark green Venturing knots, I ordered 3 for my shirt before Craig Murray was ordered to stop selling them by National. I've had several positive comments on them, as they match my shirt so much better than if they were kahki. Com'on National! Get with the program. Bring back the matching background knots.

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MV Scouter says "No one complains, and there are some instances when the beads are not prudent to wear, so the patch is the identity."

 

Could you please explain to me when it would not be prudent to wear Wood Badge beads in uniform. Are they not an accepted part of the Boy Scout uniform? How would an unauthorized badge be more prudent to wear than something that is actually presented for completing training?

 

That simply defies logic!

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OldGreyEagle,

 

Thanks for the perspective, I respect your view points.

 

I can understand the need for a common language.

 

I just wonder why it has to be so heavy on the managerial theory. There are plenty of leadership principles from scouting history that could be taught as our common scouting language. And although WB is often taught at the local scout camp, it seems the course is conducted more indoors than out.

 

For me, it would be torture to sit thru Management 101 while the great outdoors beckons, just beyond the threshold of the camp mess hall, away from the tedium of powerpoint briefings.

 

If WB offered advanced scouting theory instead, and emphasized more outdoor activities (hiking, cooking, pioneering, etc.) than indoors, I'd seriously consider putting in an application to attend.

 

Interesting the "old time" WBers feel superior...if I've read your postings over the years correctly, you earned Eagle under Old Scouting. Combined with your years of service as an adult leader even before WB completion, I think scouters like yourself had those beads earned long before you signed up for the course.

 

Desertrat77

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Regarding the reason why WB training is not scout specific, I think I understand why that is.

 

It seems to me that the Blanchard / Covey materials (and all the others) used are not industry specific, scout specific, organization specific. They're just good management techniques and practices, and they happen to fit well with what we as adult leaders do.

 

Communications is important regardless if you're talking in front of a board of directors, a troop committee, a church session...they're all important and the skill set is the same. Team building takes place on a daily basis in a boy scout troop, and it's important that we know what is happening and what can be done to ensure success in that process (or at least how to recognize when success is not on the horizon). Conflict resolution, project planning, ethics in action...all important in our work and play.

 

I believe the thinking in why the course was changed from a purley scouting based skills course to a management skills course was so that it would appeal to a broader audience. There was a tendency to see WB trained leaders poo poo'ing units that did not lash thier furniture together, use service patrol implements, wear shorts, knee socks and campaign hats as a required uniform...

 

I could be all wet on that, I've not spoken to anyone who was in that decision tree, so it's pure speculation. I do know that the WB21 is a great course and produces some great results in the people that use the skills to deliver a dynomite program. I also know that those folks I've met who took the last iteration of the course are awesome leaders as well and are not WB Lords, in fact most of them like the new course better than the last for what it does teach.

 

Oh, and I still like the patch, it's good looking even though it's not official.

 

Cheers

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It was my understanding, and only my understanding, that Wood Badge was changed because of the need to give multiple scouting positions, such as Cubmasters, Committee Chairs, Charter Organizational Representatives, scoutmasters, District Commissioners, District Committee members, etc. Organizational skills. BSA realized they could not develop an advanced training module for all these areas so they changed Wood Badge to be the management class for the BSA.

 

I don't think the change was done by the BSA to kill the Patrol Method, but some could certainly argue that and do and thats not what I am talking about. The shift from Wood Craft to Management was done because the BSA wanted to give everyone the same base level of knowledge. Was it right to use the term Wood Badge, perhaps not, but it is what happened. Was it changed as a direct attempt to kill the Patrol Method? I don't think it was a conspiracy, but rather an effect from a not well thought out plan. Was it not wise? Seems so, but we speak from hindsight.

 

Should we restore Wood Badge as the ultimate Scoutcraft training experience, I would be fine with that. And then have a second Management style course? I am fine with that as well. Could each Council handle such courses? That would be the issue

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> Could you please explain to me when it would not be prudent

> to wear Wood Badge beads in uniform.

 

When using a table saw?

 

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>> Could you please explain to me when it would not be prudent

>> to wear Wood Badge beads in uniform.

 

>When using a table saw?

 

Put 'em in your shirt or better yet take 'em off for safety sake. They do come off, don't they?

 

This is not a discussion about the merits of WB for me. This is a discussion of the need of WBers to over adorn themselves in WB regalia. I get it you have been to WB, you are entitled to wear the vaunted beads. I have no problem with that but that is where I draw the line. Why do you need to have a bumper sticker, a stave, a hat, a CSP, a special patrol patch, gather in patrol groups (cliques) at all functions, stuffed animals representing your patrol in your camping gear. Get over it. Why can't people simply quietly wear their beads and show the value of their training through their work and deeds?

 

I have no envy. At this point I have no desire to join their club either!

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Maybe what you don't understand is everyone of those do-dads usually has a special meaning. It is usually staff members who have then all clanking around their hiking sticks. In the staffs I have served on, we would have an opening and closing message presented by one of the staff at each training session or campfire, and they traditionally would hand out a totem that represented that message. I personally keep mine on a separate caribeener for each different course, but I have no problem with anyone carrying them on their staves. I also have the stuffed animals (gifts) and other things you despise. I happen to see it all as Scout Spirit.

 

Maybe we shoud also ask the boys to get rid of their patrol emblems and patrol flags with any awards hanging from them. We don't want them to offend anyone not in their group, right?

 

Finally, there is this thing called "fun" - you should try it some time.

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