Specialty Military Uniforms/equipment and Venturing

[Stosh 3452]

I didn't want to hijack the thread so I'll start another.

 

Once one crosses over the line into Venturing one's emphasis on military often times gets very muddled. I do believe sea scouts use actual navy uniforms. So obviously there isn't too much forbidden on the Venturing level.

 

We are a US History Venturing Crew and we can do reenactments of any time period both military and civilian. If we wanted to do Rev. War, no problem, we can do Vietnam and WWI and WWII. We did a timeline in a Memorial Day parade and one of the Venturing leaders wore his Gulf War uniform, the other members covered the other wars. We portrayed outselves as a Venturing Crew of the BSA and of course won the overall award for best parade entry. Uniforms? Yep, some of the real things when we cover the WWII -> today. There are enough original equipment that we don't need reproductions.

 

As far as the large bore restrictions in G2SS? This is the biggest "joke" of the reenacting world. If one is an infantry man in CW reenacting, the safety is only what the unit teaches. We strive for safety above all as do most units. Not all, but most. Cavalry use 36" sabers riding often times rented horses at full gallop over the field. When they put the sabers away, they haul out the blackpowder handguns and start firing those as well. Safety? Just what the unit makes of it. Artillery on the other hand??? They are the only units in CW reenacting that require national certification on safety training and adhere to extremely strict monitoring of the gun usage. No one under 16 touches the powder, fuses, or mans the guns, but can be part of the unit and learn from the ground up. So in light of all that... BSA prohibits the youth from participating in the safest units in reenacting. What they have been doing is taking their cue not from reenactors, but from the media which jumps on the obvious mistakes. There are an occasional media coverage of an accident, but each one is closely monitored by the hobby and all have been proven that out of the millions of rounds fired, those that make the media are the .0000000001% of the idiots that somehow make it onto the field.

 

When all is said and done, the boys are more likely to injure themselves on a homemade spud gun than on a 12# Napoleon.

 

Stosh

[Basementdweller 608]

Wellll, My troop made a replica cannon for the bicentennial. Our Mom's made minute man costumes and we pulled the cannon in parades for my entire scouting career.

 

That cannon went on our shooting camp outs and yet we shot it at plywood targets. We used soda cans filled with cement and fiberglass insulation for wadding. It was cool.

 

 

I had a big laugh when I read the GSS and saw that Artillery was a no, no. Hmmmm, I wonder if it was in response to my old troop.

 

In no way does this help you, just a trip down memory lane.

[sheldonsmom 10]

Hi,

What requirements do you use to earn the Bronze award for reenacting. We are starting a Civil War crew and have a Lewis and Clark crew already. We were told we could adapt the Hobbies and Crafts bronze with different requirements.

Thanks

Teri

[Kahuna 172]

While Sea Scouts may use actual Navy uniforms, we take some steps to distinguish ourselves from U.S. or foreign naval or merchant marine. Also, Sea Scouting is kind of "different," historically from the rest of Venturing in terms of uniforming.

Having said that, reenacting, especially with the resources you seem to have, sounds like a lot of fun. IMHO, the restrictions on wearing U.S. military uniform applies to the normal uniform of your unit. I assume you don't hold meetings or attend Scouting ceremonial events in military uniform unless you're doing it "in character" as reenactors. I'm sure you are aware of the legal restrictions on the wearing of medals, decorations and honors unless the wearer has been awarded them.

Sounds great to me.

[Stosh 3452]

Teri:

 

Our boys do not follow the Venturing awards program. Over the past 9 years (almost 10 now) no boy has earned the bronze award nor did they do any of the requirements for it unless it was totally coincidental. I'm the last person one would ask about BSA Venturing Awards. :^(

 

However, with that being said, I did/do have boys that have attained legitimate rank in the reenacting hobby and are capable of fulfilling adult level operations in the unit. Last summer our senior most boy commanded a mixed company (Venturing youth and adult members and CO members as well as non-member reenactors) at a national event. Two other boys held non-com officer positions.

 

So far I have asked each crew member personally if s/he would be interested in the venturing awards and they have always declined.

 

Kahuna:

 

Our standard Venturing uniform is the US Army dress uniform of 1863-65. We do wear other uniforms for various occasions. We have the fatigue uniform of 1861 as well as NC confederate uniforms for various reasons. Some of our boys have done WWI and WW2 as well, but those uniforms are not the standard. In the reenacting world, no one ever depicts an certain individual who has earned medals. However, in the living-history world where we sometimes venture, we do portray an individual who may have been awarded a medal, but we portray in the period of activity and not post-event which would imply the wearing of a medal. Whenever I portray an individual at a specific event (cemetery tours, etc.) I often times will don full dress uniform of the period if I know his military history (i.e. I wouldn't wear an infantry uniform if he was an artillery man) or civilian clothing which he would have worn for the majority of his lifetime. It's a little like theater, if one is doing Shakespeare, one does not wear modern clothing.

 

No modern BSA or any other "medals" insignias, etc. are worn by the crew members.

 

Stosh

[Kahuna 172]

Our standard Venturing uniform is the US Army dress uniform of 1863-65

I don't think there would be much room for confusion there within the meaning of the BSA prohibition.

[Stosh 3452]

Naw.. :^)

 

The uniform is the last thing they get "upset" about. The 36" field officer sword (fixed blade sheath knife on steroids), the 1854 Navy Colt hand gun, the 18" bayonet, the 58 caliber military assault rifle and the wide variety of bowie knives that get carried around seem to draw more raised eyebrows than the uniforms. Hmmm, let's also consider the 40 rounds 65 grains fff blackpowder wrapped up in paper too. Gee, that's almost a half pound of blackpowder.

 

To the casual observer, the hobby looks extremely dangerous, especially to the range masters and others who have been trained one way and we train differently. But in spite of it all, it's not as bad as one observes. Extensive safety is built into the hobby and BSA has recognized that whatever safety, clothing, equipment standards are established by the hobby, it is acceptable to BSA.

 

One of the reasons why it is so popular among the boys is because of the perceived danger of the beast.

 

Stosh

[sheldonsmom 10]

We have a real 1863 cannon we drag around, too, Stosh! We have a lot of boys and quite a few girls wanting to join up. Only problem seems to be having a few "rebs" in uniform. Around here they all want to be Union!

Teri

[John-in-KC 311]

Here's where I see the rub:

 

Both your units (Teri and Stosh) will fly under the radar ... unless there is a firing accident/firing incident (AR 385-63 terminology (that's the reg covering weapons safety)).

 

If something happens...

 

1) If it's in your unit, Scouting will most likely pay off the liability claims, as Beavah has often noted. I'd not be surprised, though, to see your membership in Scouting revoked.

 

2) If the incident is elsewhere, and BSA legal decides enough is enough, there will be cease and desist guidance sent out to the Councils, and you'll be told in no uncertain terms "stop."

 

From what Beavah has told us, much of the stuff in G2SS goes there because of BSA legal responses to other people's accidents.

 

I'm just glad it's you who are taking this risk, not I. A former battalion commander of mine had his career cut off at the knees... simply because one of his batteries shot short of the impact area at Grafenwoehr. Of course, that the firing incident also took the S-3, the Battalion FDO, the Battery XO, First Sergeant, Chief of Firing Battery, Gunnery Sergeant AND Section Chief meant his failure to supervise and enforce supervision cost seven men their careers.

 

Artillery is the King of Battle

[Stosh 3452]

I for one wouldn't want to be "dragging around" a for-real cannon under the auspices of BSA.

 

As infantry, we are not "under the radar" we have spent many years in dialog with National and have everything covered. Basically I was busy enough with Boy Scouts that I didn't need the hassle of starting a crew when the council first asked. I put everything out there in black and white and they sent it off to National, spelling out every aspect of the hobby that fell short of G2SS and other issues related to BSA. I figured that would put an end to the whole idea. However, we have been assured we are far from flying "under the radar". Which of course meant all my excuses to not have to start a reenacting crew went out the window. We as leaders are covered by BSA's liability insurance, 2nd Wisconsin Association's $2M liability insurance and I hold another $1M umbrella liability insurance.

 

If one does it by the book, the hobby is safe and as far as danger is concerned, youth can get more crippling injuries from high school sports than I have heard about national reenacting over the past 10 years.

 

Have I as commander of a unit on the field pulled it off because the situation we found ourselve in as unsafe? Yep, more than once and the last time was this past summer at Gettysburg at a national event. Common sense still is the best insurance of them all.

 

Stosh

[John-in-KC 311]

Sorry. One of your posts along the way (months ago) implied you had access to a large bore piece.

[Stosh 3452]

Nope, I'm infantry 100%. Sheldonsmom said she had the cannon. I might bend the rules a little here and there, but that one's beyond anything I can skirt around and keep within G2SS issues.

 

The only large bore issue I have is the .58 cal and .69 cal rifle muskets we carry. I sumetimes use my .72 cal shotgun (10-gauge), but not for reenacting.

 

Stosh