New Square Knot Ideas

[scoutldr 732]

In my eBay ramblings, I stumbled upon an interesting concept...a Venture crew is making up and selling "unofficial" square knots. Some that are being advertised are BSA Lifeguard, Historical Trails Award, Vigil Honor, Alpha Phi Omega, Wood Badge, etc. Some of these strike me as good ideas, and some (Wood Badge) seem redundant. Before the UP pull up to my house and demand to inspect my uniforms, I realize that these are not for official use, but I guess as Venturers, they are taking the "do your own thing" concept to new heights. They are also producing standard BSA square knots on different color base fabrics, to better match the uniform colors (forest green, white, black). Since I made Eagle as an Explorer, my original square knot is on a dark green background.

 

I guess my real question is, how does one submit an idea to National for a new square knot and why would they not consider it?

[NeilLup 13]

1) As far as submitting square knot ideas (or any ideas) you can just write up your idea and send it to the Chief Scout Executive. Or, if you can identify the program group involved, you can send it to them. Every such idea does get considered carefully and I know of several cases where a single letter caused a change in a program or in literature

 

2) As far a why an idea for a square knot might not be approved. I believe there is a perception that there are too many square knots now.

 

3) The Wood Badge square knot isn't a totally crazy idea. For safety reasons, Sea Scout leaders don't wear a leather lanyard around their neck. So they don't wear the traditional Wood Badge.

[Overtrained 10]

There are several sites that have these bogus knots. I have often thought of making a bogus uniform just to see if anyone notices.

 

I have in the past been involved on a national committee where we actually designed an Aviation Explorer uniform. It entailed several patches with wings for various program fields.

 

Neilup is correct in the process. If you can identify the program committee responsible for the area your proposing a knot, the faster consideration it will have.

 

 

[Fat Old Guy 11]

"2) As far a why an idea for a square knot might not be approved. I believe there is a perception that there are too many square knots now."

 

My problem is that there are knots and medals for "ticket punching" like the "Cub Scouter Training Award" but no knot if you receive a local award that is based on a nomination from your peers. Which award is more significant?

[Bob White 20]

"but no knot if you receive a local award that is based on a nomination from your peers."

 

 

Like the knots for District Award of Merit, Silver Beaver, Silver Buffalo, Silver Antelope, Spurgeon Award, St.George Cross, George Meany Award, Heroism Awards, Whitney Young Service Award,OA Distinguished Service Award, the Merit Medal? All of which are service award (or recognition award) knots where you are nominated by your peers. Most are for local accomplishments.

They all come from national BSA because that is the branch responsible for the uniform.

 

(This message has been edited by Bob White)

[NJCubScouter 1389]

My problem is that there are knots and medals for "ticket punching" like the "Cub Scouter Training Award"...

 

By remarkable coincidence, last week I received my certificate and knot for the Cub Scouter Training Award. I don't think it's a question of whether this is more "significant" than any other award or whether there should be knots for other awards. The question is whether the BSA should recognize, in a "wearable" manner, past unit service of a particular duration and level of "accomplishment", accompanied by the training associated with the positions held. Why shouldn't it? You can belittle the award as "ticket punching," but what it means for me is that I did a bunch of different things for the boys in the pack, and I got trained so I would do the best job I could. I didn't do these things so I could wear a knot, but now I get to wear the knot as a sort of side-effect of what I did. Seems reasonable to me.

[Eamonn 61]

I'm with the honrable Cub Scouter from the Garden State.

I have gone out of my way to ensure that anyone who has earned a knot gets it. If they decides not to wear it that is up to them. I have uniforms that have no knots on and a couple that have a lot. Sometimes I wear the one on the top of the pile and there are times when I select the shirt with the "Right Stuff" on it.

Eamonn.

[Fat Old Guy 11]

Oh Bob White, you're at it again. Deliberately misconstruing what I say.

 

 

[Fat Old Guy 11]

" You can belittle the award as "ticket punching," but what it means for me is that I did a bunch of different things for the boys in the pack, and I got trained so I would do the best job I could. "

 

Why should there be an award for doing what you are supposed to do in the first place?

 

I have a couple awards and I wear the knots but they really don't mean that much because all I did was my job.

[NJCubScouter 1389]

FOG says:

 

Why should there be an award for doing what you are supposed to do in the first place?

 

I guess the easy answer would be, don't ask me, ask the BSA. They created the award, I just earned it. But I think the reason why the BSA has a leader recognition program is obvious. It is just a little recognition for doing something, and doing it at a particular level of "quality", on a voluntary basis. Not everybody who serves in a position earns the award. (By the way when I say "voluntary" I realize there are personal "recognitions" for professionals as well, just as there are in many businesses and professions. You could just as easily ask, why should a company have an "employee of the month" award? It's just a little recognition.)

 

I have a couple awards and I wear the knots but they really don't mean that much because all I did was my job.

 

Well, when you say they don't mean "that much," that is what makes me wonder why you are even bothering to make this point. How much is "that much"? It means something, that's all it's supposed to mean. It means what it means. You could say that the Cub Scouter Award or the Den Leader Award do not "mean" as much as, say, the Silver Beaver, and if I were to have a need to compare the "service" of different Scouters, I would agree. But that's why the knots look different, so that everybody who knows one knot from another will be able to tell their significance. When someone sees me in my uniform, with my Arrow of Light knot and Cub Scouter Award knot and that's it, if I happen to be standing next to one of our assistant scoutmasters who never left Scouting between when he went to college and when he had a son in the program, and he has every knot from the Silver Beaver and the one you get for saving someone's life (he once saved his Scoutmaster from drowning), on "down" to what you call the ticket-punching awards, they are going to know he has "done more" in Scouting than I have. And he has, and he has the knots to show it. I don't see anything wrong with that.

[Fat Old Guy 11]

"Well, when you say they don't mean "that much," that is what makes me wonder why you are even bothering to make this point. How much is "that much"?"

 

In this instance it is slightly less than nothing.

[NJCubScouter 1389]

You are too funny, FOG. So if the knots are worth "slightly less than nothing" then YOU wear "a couple" of them... why, exactly? Because you like how nice the colors look on your shirt? Or is this just one of those things you say just to yank peoples' chains, and that you don't really mean?

 

(Those are rhetorical questions, by the way. I already know the answer.)

[Fat Old Guy 11]

New Jersey Dude asked, thinking that he knew the answer, " So if the knots are worth "slightly less than nothing" then YOU wear "a couple" of them... why, exactly?"

 

Maybe because they mean something to the person who submitted the paperwork and they thought that they were doing something nice for me.

 

BTW, I evidently had a senior moment, I meant to say, "slightly more than nothing."