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and my Troop is often the target for these jokes and racism, by the good old boys. kcs I am gonna guess your troop would be telling my boys to fill their water pitchers and wait their table.


This is the second time in a month someone has pulled some stuff out of the archives and smacks ya on the head with it.


Just gotta shake my head about it......As eamon points out the boy is a product his environment.

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Even if what kcs says about the boy is true which is questionable, I agree with you that this is not the arena to bring this up. Obviously some SM and troop found something in this boy so he could complete his Eagle, which brings me to my previous post in this thread. No matter how bad we assume a kid may be sometimes it just takes someone to care or a group of peers who takes him at face value and helps him find alternatives to what he may have experienced in his life so far. Too many people are too quick to brand or label a person when they know nothing or very little about them. We see it happen in this forum all the time.

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Thanks to everyone who emailed me.

Have removed the link that was posted.

Now that its not there anymore??

The discussion about Eagle Quality or the lack of quality can continue.


Maybe I'm more than just a little odd?

I think kids should be kids and be able to make mistakes.

Without making mistakes they are missing some great opportunities to learn.

Have a cousin in the UK that has annoyed me since he was a little fellow. He was always too good, too polite and too darn clean.

I'll take a kid who is cheeky and likes getting dirty any day of the week.

As my son went through Boy Scouts I watched a lot of Lads his age from all over the District and Council also go through.

Some were in the better Troops, some weren't.

A great pal of mine is SM of a really super Troop. Not a mill of any kind but a Troop that holds the interests of the older Scouts and just does a good all round job. The Troop has about 40 Scouts and a good many of the Scouts do make Eagle.

We have a local Troop that is not so great. It has had problems with finding and keeping leaders. It doesn't get to do a lot of outdoor activities and is in a poor area.

A few years back I was invited to a ESCOH at this Troop. I was District Chair. at the time.

The Troop was in nothing that might be called a uniform. The odd shirt here and there, lots of blue jeans.

The Lad receiving his Eagle was as big as a house. He must have went 280 -300 pounds. He didn't have a uniform. In fact looking as an outsider I might have called him scruffy.

He was the first Scout ever to earn Eagle Rank from this Troop.

I talked with his mother who wasn't well dressed and was about the same size as he was. She was a really nice Lady. She was so very proud of her son and what he'd accomplished.

I remember on the drive home thinking how much harder it was for a Lad from this Troop to make Eagle than it might be for a Lad from my pals Troop.

I know in the Troop my pal is in all the T's are crossed and the i's are dotted. I'm not sure if that was the case with my heavyweight friend?

I do feel that the Lad who got his Eagle is an inspiration for the Scouts who will follow him in that Troop. I know he made his mother a very happy and proud person.

As for all the rest?

I just don't care.


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I'll take another angle and say this:


Maybe the scout in question started over when he left. Maybe he turned his attitude around and gave himself a clean slate or second chance.


Without anybody lookinhg at him and saying or thinking : "Oh, that's the boy who msaid the "X" word."


Too many times, we talk about people changing their ways, or having to re-earn our trrust or respect, but all along the way of them trying, we ourselves snatch away anything tha should allow them our respect or truct againm.


WE spout off about second chances, forgivenes and what not, and talk up and down about scout spirit, but then we forget it goes both ways. It applies to us too.


And the sad, dissapointing truth I see all around me is that most children learn from their parents, teachers and people around them. Nobody is born using those worthless hatefull words. They learn them.


Now, wether ort not the scout truely earned Eagle is totally beyond me. Maybe he is a better person now, or maybe he's worse. Maybe he is in a troop that tosses those words out all day long without a second thought..but I will say this about the boy..if he is copying the model that his leaders give him, ands what his parents tend to think...then as far as he is aware..he is respectful.


No, he isn't right in what he does, but he doesn't know that.


It is a shame. But aside from using predjudicail words, he might be Eagle all the way.


As far as tarnish goes,. he isn't tarnishing anything so much as thoise responcible for his guidance and up bringing. That's what really tarnishes any group.


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There are ticket punch Eagles. There are Eagles that soar and Eagles that flap. There are Eagles who just don't get it. That is life.


That said, it is not the rank of Eagle that is important but what the scout was exposed to in the earning of the rank. Many of these exposures may not come to fruition for a number of years if at all. Even those who soar as young Eagles will make choices that are not 'up to the standard' and some who flap will live 'up to the standard' it is what they have been taught as scouts that will be the determining factor in how they respond to life. Took me a number of decisions to 'get it'. But the base was always there.


As has been stated it is the culture of the troop that is what is important. If the culture is based on the Scout Law and Oath and that the scout is expected to, in part, use to Oath and Law to make their decisions on what life brings to them, then they have a platform to work with. Many young men do not realize what they have learned as scouts until time has passed and the leasons have a meaning and all we as scouters can hope for is at some point the lessons take hold.


If the scout has fulfilled the requirements and earned his Eagle then it is the responsibility of the scouters to haved provided the positive base required for the young Eagle to be able to live up to the rank.



red feather

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I'm not going to apoligise for posting the link and my opinion.


you may have noticed that the boy in question in the photo and link is NOT a boy any longer. He is 19.


Yes, the attitude/beliefs of the scoutmaster, other leaders in the troop, and other boys in the troop all likely contributed to the attitude and values that this young man holds.


The young man left our troop when he was a few months from aging out because he could not get his Eagle project accepted. He joined another troop down the road...


His Eagle project consisted of planting flowers in a small roadside park.


Perhaps my standards for what I would hope an Eagle scout represents are too high?



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I would not be concerned about your standards for Eagle, but I would be interested in your Districts standards for Eagle. Its not the Troop that decides if an Eagle project is worthy, its the Distrct through the Advancement Committe who decides that

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"I'm not going to apologize for posting the link and my opinion.

you may have noticed that the boy in question in the photo and link is NOT a boy any longer. He is 19."

Sorry but no matter what age he was or is, in my book you are way out of line and out of order.

You as a Scouter have taken the Scout Oath and Law.

If you can't see that doing stuff like this causes or can cause harm and fail by any standard to be kind and does nothing to help anyone at anytime?

Maybe it's time you took the time for some self reflection?

Maybe it's time to take a look at that Oath and Law? Thinking about what the fine words really mean.

The BSA has lots of "Youth Members" over the age of 18.


No one asked for an apology.

Still I do think you need to know that of all the emails I received, every last one of them seen what you did as being wrong.




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Thank you eamon.

It is one thing to discuss a rumor, as to veracity, appropriateness, stupidity, etc. It is another thing to pass it on as if YOU have accepted it as truth.

Same thing here, I feel. To discuss the appropriateness, stupidity, lack of judgement, possible illegality, ruination of reputation, etc. of a FB page/ account is one thing. To pass it on purposefully is another. This does nothing to help the Scout realize the danger inherent in such pages, in fact, it increases the danger by enlarging the reach of the page.

Might alert the parents as to the content, let them deal with their son.

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