Court of Honor presentations--missed attendance

[Buffalo Skipper 13]

Guy,

For some reason I missed your first comment regarding the poor Cub Scout style of once a year presentations. I can relate to that, as when I stepped into the troop, we did a once a year CoH, which they turned into a big heavy hors d'oeuvres/pot luck following the ceremony. The troop was a bit smaller then, but one of the first things I did was to get 2 CoH the first "year," then blend it into 3. As we are now growing, we are now in a position to have them every 3 months.

 

The troop has always had a "stash" of rank badges on hand, and we have presented ranks immediately following the BoR (often the same meeting). We now have a national scout shop at our office, and they are particularly strict about selling rank patches without an advancement sheet to be turned in; with the "special" 2010 Centennial rank patches, this has become a real pain. Luckily, we are almost past that sillyness. We used to hold onto all Merit Badge patches until CoHs, in spite of the fact that we also had a "stash" of these as well. We now work hard to present MBs at the meetings, often times the same evening that blue card is turned in. For less common MBs this happens no later than the next meeting. We only hold the "cards" to present with the awards ceremonies, for both rank and MBs.

[gcnphkr 11]

"Unless there was a very good reason to have missed (neither band nor football practice count as good reasons), they can wait until the next COH."

 

--Why aren't those good reasons? Sorry, I don't follow your logic at all.

 

Why would they be good reasons? They are simply choices that the scout must make. They only have the importance that the scout and the leader places on them. Would the band director or the coach give the scout an excused absence if they missed practice for the COH? Why should I think less of the COH? I do not believe that scouting is any more or any less important than any other voluntary, extra curricular activity. Would you do they same if he had joined a bowling league, went to a "Magic, the Gathering" tournament or just wanted to stay home and watch Monday Night Football? If not, then why not?

 

When you tell a scout that it is okay to miss the COH because you will just recognize him the next time they choose to come to a meeting, you teach him that it is okay to be discourteous. You teach him that his desires are more important than honoring his fellow scouts and more important than the troop and advancement chair's time. You teach him that being loyal and courteous and by extension the entire Scout Law is only for when it is convenient.

 

The scout is not being penalized. He has his rank. He has his badge. If he really wants the cards and the other patches he can make arrangements to pick them up.

[Eagle92 110]

Jet,

I am playing Devil's Advocate here, so bear with me. At some schools and school districts, band can count as a subject. Practices held before and after school, as well as performances (games, concerts, etc) are considered part of the "class" and if you miss, it is reflectedt in your grades. My HS did that.

 

Ditto on sports. While their sport was in session, the practices and games were considered the PE class, and again attendance was reflected in the grade. However once their season was over, they took regular PE. Again my HS did that.

 

Not saying it's right or fair about tying what should be an extracurricual activity to a grade, but I've seen it done.

 

Now that said, I've known folks, and have done so myself, come from straight one activity to a meeting or COH, and change into their uniform. Heck 1 ECOH was fortunately for me scheduled between my HS ring ceremony (mandatory by school) and the ring dance (optional), So I did all three that day

[perdidochas 658]

Why do National Scout Shop stores not let troops pre-buy badges? It seems like a silly policy.

[evmori 11]

Why do National Scout Shop stores not let troops pre-buy badges? It seems like a silly policy.

 

Probably to prevent units from just giving them out!

[Buffalo Skipper 13]

evmori is right. The idea is that many units may just pruchase badges and never submit advancement reports. Then when a scout goes for Eagle, nothing is on record. Certainly this has happened multiple times in every district around the country.

 

One way our scout shop enforces this is to prevent any "troop account" to be used without an advancement report. An individual can purchase badges, though they may have to put up with a stern talking to....

 

I find this policy to be difficult. We are told "immediate recognition," but even though our unit may submit an advancement report monthly (on the first day of every month), we "cannot" purchase the patches until the advancement report is submitted, often a few weeks later. We get around this with our "stash." We hand out the rank right away, and replace our supply at the end of the month when we turn in our advancement report. As I said, the ridiculous 2010 rank patches are making that difficult for us, at least for the next 4.5 months; it will be nice when that is over with.

[gcnphkr 11]

Eagle92,

 

Yes. They are courses for credit here as well. But the scout still makes a choice to take that class knowing that he would be missing troop meetings, including COHs. That is fine. I've no problem with them doing that. I might even go to a game and watch them, recognize them when the get First Chair, Team Captain, etc.

 

Scouts will ask me, "Is it okay if I miss the meeting because of [activity]?" I tell them, "It isn't a matter of being 'okay', it is a matter of what is important to you and only you can make that call."

 

If a boy asked the coach if he could miss a practice and the coach told him, "If you miss you will not be starting", no one would think the coach was being unfair. But if I tell the scout, "Okay, but you'll either have to make other arrangements or wait three months until the next Court of Honor to get your patches", then somehow I'm being unreasonable or unfair. Sorry, I don't buy that.

[Eagle92 110]

I don't know the official, by-the-book, reason, But when I worked for them there were several reasons.

 

1) Due to the nature of restricted items, they did not want anyone coming in and buying them, i.e. Eagle, QM, WB beads etc. You needed to have proof in order to get them. Anything rank related usually entailed an advancement report. However if mom was coming in to buy extra Star patches for Joe Starscout's extra jambo uniforms, some type of proof was needed, usually the shirt, and we had them fill out the form and mark "replacement." yes you do have folks trying to buy things they didn't earn.

 

2)The ARs need to be turned in to have the advancement properly recorded. If my experiences with training records is any indicator, I have had people who said they turned in copies of their records, and they didn't. So i'm willing to bet some adults thoughtthey turned in paperwork for advancement, when they didn't

 

3) The council also used the ARs as a check on their reports. Yes even replacements needed the approximate date on the AR since the council's records were messed up in a few cases. I know going for Eagle, their records had the wrong dates for some MBs and that caused problems.

 

4)national uses the ARs to keep track of advancement for stats.

 

Now this is what my unit did, and I recommend. You get a few extras using actual names of recipients and mark "REPLACEMENT" on the form. Then as folks advance, you take the stuff out of your 'war chest" for giving out, then fill out thepaperwork, turn it in, and get the ranks for the war chest.

 

 

[Gary_Miller 10]

If a Scout misses the the COH just give him his stuff at the next meeting. Its his stuff he earned it and it be longs to him. None of this waiting until the next COH thats just plan "foolish" on the leaders part. None of this it wasn't important enough for him to be at the COH so he can just wait thats "childish".

 

Belive it or not YM have a life other than scouts so we need to give the some slack if we want them to stay involved.

 

We can't be like the coaches and music leaders who make it seam that life revolves around sports and music, and everything else is second. We need to be the flexible ones.

[gcnphkr 11]

"Belive it or not YM have a life other than scouts so we need to give the some slack if we want them to stay involved."

 

I disagree. When shown by your actions that Scouting is not important and that you will make it as accommodating as possible then you make it less desirable to them. When you set the value of Scouting high by your expectations then you make it more desirable.

[rdclements 10]

When you start trying to dictate to a young man and his family how to set priorities for activities, you're doomed to failure. I've never sat on a BOR for an Eagle candidate who was not involved in multiple activities. If you want to go around demanding that he place his troop higher than his other interests - because that's the way you see things - you're just another source of noise in his life.

 

I'll show the scout that I value his time and respect his decision making, "Hey, glad to see you. We missed you at the COH last week. I saved your stuff for you."

 

The best unit leaders are the one who work with their scouts, not look for ways to make scouting a hassle.

[Gary_Miller 10]

jet526: "I disagree. When shown by your actions that Scouting is not important and that you will make it as accommodating as possible then you make it less desirable to them. When you set the value of Scouting high by your expectations then you make it more desirable."

 

Letting a YM know that you are there for them and that you support them in all their activities is not saying "Scouting is not important". Its saying that you support them in their interests, you support their decisions and have respect for them and the choices they make. Its saying that the YM is important and you care about them more than you do about the program.

[gcnphkr 11]

"YM know that you are there for them and that you support them in all their activities"

 

And exactly, how is it that this requires that the advancement chair has to haul the scout's awards to each meeting? Why is it important to support the scout but not to support the adult volunteer? Perhaps we should drive to the scout's house and hand deliver it to him. That would be supportive wouldn't it? Or perhaps the best support I can give is to help him deal with the decisions that he needs to make.

 

Life is a series of choices. Most of the time the choices are not between good or bad, or good and better, they are just choices. When I make a choice that impacts other people I should deal with it in a way that minimized the impact on them. That is being courteous. So, as a scout, when I choose not to go to a COH, for whatever reason, I make the choice realizing that I will not receive my awards at that COH. Now I can also choose to do a number of other things. I can ask a friend to get my awards for me. I can contact the Advancement Chair and arrange to pick them up. I can tell him that I won't be able to be at the next couple of meetings but that I will be there on the first meeting in October and would it be possible for him to bring it then. If he agrees then I will call him a day or two prior to the meeting to remind him. I can decide it is not that important and I can wait until the next COH. Or I can throw up my hands in frustration because those mean adults don't make sure that I don't have to make any real decisions and are not there jumping at my every whim.

 

Now none of those earlier options are unduly burdensome on the scout. Certainly not for a scout old enough to decide to be in band or on the football team. For some reason, there seem to be people out there that expect that the last is the option we should be ready for and cater to it. I personally don't see how doing that serves the scout.

[Gary_Miller 10]

jet526, "And exactly, how is it that this requires that the advancement chair has to haul the scout's awards to each meeting?"

 

Because that's what he volunteered to do. Support the scout. Of course this does not mean that other procedures could be adobted like the YM going to the Advancement Chairs house to pick up his awards or the awards being given to the SM to take to the troop meeting.

 

jet526, "Why is it important to support the scout but not to support the adult volunteer?"

 

Because it the adults volunteers job to support the scout. That's what we said we would do when we volunteered.

 

jet526, "Perhaps we should drive to the scout's house and hand deliver it to him. That would be supportive wouldn't it?

 

Thats one option. Just think how a YM would feel if a adult volunteer brought his awards to him, found out why he was missing and let him know that we care about him as a person.

 

jet526, "Or perhaps the best support I can give is to help him deal with the decisions that he needs to make."

 

That is support also. It teaches the YM that he has choices to make in life and that he is responsible for his own decisions.

 

It all depends on what you are trying to do.

 

For me I try to let the boy know that he is wanted, important, cared for and responsible for his choices without driving him away from the program. I do this because I can have no influence on the life of a YM if he is not in the program.

 

 

[rdclements 10]

I have delivered missed awards to the home of my scouts.