from jail to eagle

[ripulan 10]

I was recently approached by a fellow scouter to assist with an Eagle Scout Project for a young man who will be 18 in a few months. The only info that this scouter gave mne was that the young man was just released from juvenile detention and had completed some of his merit badges while detained. Since I often work with this troop I may also be asked to be a part of his Eagle BOR. Is awarding this boy to the rank of Eagle scout appropriate.How does the scout fullfil requirements 1 and 2? Other scouters in my district did not object and thought it would be a good thing for the boy.

[Scoutfish 16]

As a fairly new CUB scouter, I am not sure of the timeline that requiremmnet #1 takes, but seems as if requirement #2 - specifically Obediant would pretty much rule out Eagle.

 

Back to #1, how long was he in detention? Week? Month? 6 months? Year?(This message has been edited by scoutfish)

[BDPT00 41]

Is having a clean record adding to the requirements?

BDPT00

 

[Crew21_Adv 25]

ripulan,

 

There will probably be many replies to this topic.

 

In this Scouter Forum, there have been similar discussions about Life Scouts who have been violent, fought, committed arson, committed petty theft and/or used illegal narcotics. Most of those forum discussions, the dialogue stated the youth had court dates, but were not detained in a state facility.

 

Within previous forum topics. It was usually a fact; the Life Scout in question committed a local or state crime.

 

I usually ask, can a Life Scout be reformed? and, can the Life Scout be forgiven for their crime(s)? Can a District/Council Advancement Chair and Eagle Scout Committee impartially measure the redemption and value of an Eagle Scout candidate?

 

Possibly so. Possibly not. It is a fork in the road right now.

 

First the Life Scout has to serve his judicial sentencing; and ideally learn a new set of values along the way. Then it depends on an impartial advancement committee.

 

If you look at some older editions of Scouting magazine. You will find just a few articles of Scoutmasters and Assistant Scoutmasters working with Troops inside of Youth Detention facilities, specifically serving troubled youth thru the Scouting program. However, the volunteer adult leaders, as well as the district and council committees specifically know about these troops.

 

I have spoke and chatted with friends around the campfire, and I hold Eagle Scouts and Venturing Silver in high esteem. But I have commented that Eagle Scout is a paramount benchmark, but not the end of the journey. I remind friends that there may be just a handful of Eagle Scouts serving time in jail during the adult life. And there may be some business executives and respected community leaders that were delinquents and youth offenders during their teen years. But those forks in the road and those decisions are up to the individual and their own moral compass.

 

ripulan asked, Is awarding this boy to the rank of Eagle scout appropriate?

Well, its been done before. And that is up to the Scoutmaster, Troop Committee to submit the Rank Application, up to the Council/District Advancement Committee to determined if the Life Scout is worthy of the title of Eagle Scout, and finally up to the Council Executive to favorably endorse those decisions.

 

ripulan also asked, How does the scout fulfill requirements 1 and 2?

Fulfilling requirement 1 of active participation, I believe in previous forum topics, the main theme seems to believe the Scoutmaster typically determines the definition of active participation.

For fulfilling requirement 2 demonstrating the principles of Scouting, I believe that is up to the Life Scout to demonstrate and up to the Scoutmaster to determine when he/she is satisfied by the demonstration.

 

Hopefully, the Life Scout will make better moral decisions; and hopefully the unit, district and council committees will make good moral decisions on this topic.

 

 

Scouting Forever and Venture On!

Crew21 Adv

 

[evmori 11]

Interesting. Lots of questions.

 

Is this Scout a member of a unit?

 

Is this Scout still registered?

 

What requirements has this Scout completed for the Eagle rank?

 

Who is the project for and what is the project?

 

Why was this Scout in a juvenile detention center?

 

How long was this Scout in a juvenile detention center?

[artjrk 11]

Crew, ditto.

 

There is no blanket rule on this and it is up to the SM, Eagle Board to determine the qualifications of the individual Scout.

 

The consequence of detention may stem from long time issue or just a single last in judgment or even an inadvertent mistake. Personally I have just seen my own son deal with disciplinary actions for, as the school even called it, bad judgment. How he deals with this after wards will be a better indication of his true character.

[NE-IV-88-Beaver 10]

"How he deals with this after wards will be a better indication of his true character."

 

But since this Scout is almost 18 at this point, is there time to see how well he rehabilitates himself and learns from his mistakes?

 

There is too little information provided to really be of any help. This would be a much easier call if we were talking about a youth who had a minor scrape with the law at 14, served some detention, became engaged with the Scout program and truly showed evidence of rehabilitation. In MHO, that would not be a problem as this youth could be considered a role model to some, evidence of how the Scout turned himself around and grew within the program.

 

With the situation, as you described it, I would find it hard to award this young man the Eagle award, making him a role model for the younger members of his troop. Others may say that it may help him in his personal development but I don't believe that is the purpose for awarding the highest honor in the Boy scout program, establishing a standard that all other Eagle Scouts will be judged by.

 

 

[SMT224 10]

The between the lines messages in the OP...

 

"Other scouters in my district did not object and thought it would be a good thing for the boy." seems to indicate that if the Eagle were to be awarded, the life of this young man would put on the straight and narrow and he would be a good citizen forevermore. Maybe so, but most likely not.

 

However, if the Eagle were not awarded (despite the implication that he has pulled himself out of the muck by his boot straps, "...completed some of his merit badges while detained."), then the implication seems to be that he would most likely return to a life of crime and spend the rest of his life in misery. However, in this case, not earning Eagle because of his behavior may actually end up being better motivation to clean up his act than getting such an honor when he knows he did wrong.

 

But what is good for the boy (despite how ever likely or unlikely the two scenarios described above) may not be good for the Troop or Boy Scouts in general.

 

What message will this send the rest of the Scouts... especially those who really are living the Scout spirit and keeping out of trouble? It will tell them that all their efforts avoiding temptation are for not - clearly as this case indicates, one can screw around, commit crimes, and still make Eagle. Why should they stay clean when there is no good reason for it? This will teach them that the Eagle award is a fraud.

 

I would think that unless he was framed or unfairly convicted, the award of Eagle would do more to dishearten those who truly are on the trail to Eagle than it would help him straighten up. And in the final analysis, based on the information at hand, that this would actually be a "good thing for the boy" is very doubtful.

 

[nolesrule 58]

As others have said, it's hard to make a call without even knowing what he did, if he shows true remorse and rehabilitation.

 

Sadly, we live in a lock-them-up society these days, which in some cases can do more harm than good. I'm not looking forward to the day when sneezing in the wrong direction will result in a 6-month sentence. (Last 2 sentences are general comment/hyperbole and not necessarily relevant to the topic at hand.)

[nldscout 18]

I have to agree, far too little information to make a decision or even give real good advice.

 

I will say based on my juducial experience that young men do dumb things, and sometimes a short period of detention, even a weekend is all it takes to open thier eyes and realize that this is not the life for them and they have become outstanding young men and citizens after that. Then on the other hand some will fool you, and begin the long slide to a life of crime.

 

Maybe in this young mans case he will learn and become one of those upstanding people we always hope all of our scouts turn out to be. SOmetimes it works sometimes it doesn't.

 

I think you have on opportunity to observe him at the Eagle project and maybe get some sense there about him.

 

I wish you luck with this one as it will be a tough call I think.

 

Me personally my worse day as a judge was having to incarcerate one of my past Eagle scouts from when I was the SM.

[BDPT00 41]

I'm finding this fascinating.

Most of the time when the question of the Eagle rank comes up, the issue is based entirely on not adding requirements. The arguments here are adding the requirement that this young man needs to be a role model for other Scouts. That's not a requirement. Or is it?

BDPT00

[OldGreyEagle 5]

I guess its how you value living the Oath and Law part of the scout spirit requirement

[Basementdweller 608]

I am conflicted by this young man and his life situation.

 

While I would hope he earns his eagle, I am concerned about the example.

 

But we have Eagle scouts who are convicted murders, child molesters and common criminals.

 

People are people irregardless what they have earned.