EBOR - Appeal Loophole?

[Fugitive 10]

The ACP&P states the following: "A discussion should be held with him as to how he may meet the requirements within a given period."

 

Does this follow with a new Board of Review or Appeal Board of Review the book does not say? What do you do if the Scout is out of time (18) New application? Updated application? New Scoutmaster Conference? Requirements are materially different than character related issues. A requirement, i.e., time in position, merit badge etc. should this be referred to a new board of review at the same level at some future date. Character issues i.e., Oath, Law and Scout Spirit, should these be referred to the appeal process. Should the board of review members make this decision by majority vote prior to the scout returning to the room?

 

How would this be dealt with as per the ACP&P?

 

Thanks,

Fugitive

[John-in-KC 311]

I'm not participating. You took us for a ride on your last topic.

[evmori 11]

How do you think it should be dealt with, Fugitive?

[OldGreyEagle 5]

It is my understanding that the decision of a Board of Review is what is appealed. If a Eagle Board of Review does not "pass" a scout, the scout may then appeal the decision not to award the Eagle. If the scout prevails on the appeal, he gets the rank of Eagle, there isn't a second Board of Review

[gcnphkr 11]

 

If the candidate does not meet the requirements, he is asked to return and told the reasons for his failure to qualify. A discussion should be held with him as to how he may meet the requirements within a given period. Should the applicant disagree with the decision, the appeal procedures should be explained to him. A follow-up letter must be sent to the Scout confirming the agreements reached on the action(s) necessary for the advancement. If the Scout chooses to appeal, provide the name and address of the person he is to contact.

You asked:

 

Does this follow with a new Board of Review or Appeal Board of Review the book does not say?

Yes, it does. If the scout agrees with the decision he would return to the board, if the scout disagrees with the decision then he would appeal it.

 

What do you do if the Scout is out of time (18)

If he is out of time and has not met the requirements then the only thing he can do it provide evidence that the requirements were indeed met or appeal the decision, otherwise he does not earn the Eagle.

 

New application? Updated application? New Scoutmaster Conference?

It is unclear what you are asking here. There would only be a need for a new or updated application if the first one was deficient in some manner. Why would there be a need for another SMC?

 

A requirement, i.e., time in position, merit badge etc. should this be referred to a new board of review at the same level at some future date. Character issues i.e., Oath, Law and Scout Spirit, should these be referred to the appeal process.

That is an administrative decision. If that application is severely deficient (for example, he needs to put in 6 months in a POR) then he will likely just meet with a new board in 6 or 7 months. If it is a matter of documenting a merit badge then he may be asked to return to the board with the same members. It is up to the board to determine what the scout needs to do. Boards do not refer their decision to the appeal process. The board only provides the information to the scout; it is up to the scout to appeal.

 

Should the board of review members make this decision by majority vote prior to the scout returning to the room?

Which decision? The decision on granting the advancement must be unanimous. In the process, it will be clear what the deficiency is and what needs to be done to correct it. This would all occur before the scout is called back. Details of how the scout will correct the deficiency are worked out with the scout.

 

How would this be dealt with as per the ACP&P?

Typically by reading the document and doing what it says. I'm sorry, but I'm not seeing the ambiguity you seem to in the text.

[Fugitive 10]

John,

 

I'm on this site because I need some expert advice from Scouters willing to help others. I am not here to pick a fight with others. I started the thread, so I think that gives me the opportunity to pose the questions, I invite you to provide me with a better understanding of the questions I asked. As my understanding grows I will probably pose additional questions and might even end up in a different place than I started. This is the case in my last thread. If you have a problem with me or my questions please feel free to help others, that way it wont waste you time or mine.

 

Thanks,

Fugitive(This message has been edited by Fugitive)(This message has been edited by Fugitive)

[Fugitive 10]

OK, If I understand the process when the Scout gets a no vote, gets a list of actions needed to meet the requirements over a period of time and comes before the original board for another vote. Got it! Try this, the scout turns 18 while waiting for the EBOR and gets a no vote, which is frequently the case, at 18 he can't participat as a scout and may not be able to complete the actions/requirements. What do we do? Is his only option an Appeal?

 

Thanks,

Fugitive

 

Lisabob what do you think?(This message has been edited by Fugitive)

[Nike 94]

You've previously posted that your Council Advancement policies and procedures are in a state of confusion/dissension/panic. Have you called National or written them? What do they say?

 

Don't we pay all those pros in TX to sort out this kind of stuff?

[OldGreyEagle 5]

there seems to be a disconnect here, at least I think there is.

 

let me try this, A scout is turned down by a Board of Review for a rank advancement, any rnk advancement. The scout has a choice, accept the decision or appeal it. if he accepts the decision then the schedule and expectations are laid out and the follow-up Board of Review is scheduled. The follow-up Board of Review need not have the same people, but obviously newcommers should be aware of the situation. Now, if the scout does not accept the decision and decides to appeal it, then there is no reason for a second Board of Review, the decision will be either to grant the rank or not. If the decision is that the rank will not be awarded then the scout would hae to do what the unit wants to advance. If the scout get the rank, then its done. If the scout is past 18 and the rank is not awarded, he should not have waited until he was so close to 18 to get the whole ball rolling, he knew quite early on when his 18th birthday was

[Fugitive 10]

Yes I have. I followed some good advice from Lisabob and have made great progress with the Council by going back to step 1 and starting over. I still have questions relating to policy interpretation and getting advice from Scouters outside the Council is very helpful. It is amazing how different people look at things!

 

Thanks,

Fugitive

[gcnphkr 11]

 

Try this, the scout turns 18 while waiting for the EBOR and gets a no vote, which is frequently the case, at 18 he can't participat as a scout and may not be able to complete the actions/requirements. What do we do? Is his only option an Appeal?

The scout can either request an extension (see p. 25 of the ACP&P) or appeal the board's decision.

[Fugitive 10]

Jet526 and OldGreyEagle, good job! This is bringing it together for me. So after 18 the ACP&P provides 2 avenues for the Eagle since he cannot participate as a Scout. 1) Extension. 2) Appeal.

 

New question? If a Scout receives a 6 month extension from National and turns everything into the council on the last day. I would assume from what I read in the ACP&P that he would have 3 months to do a board of review and an additional 3 months with an extension from the council?

 

Is this correct?

 

Thanks,

Fugitive

 

(This message has been edited by Fugitive)

[OldGreyEagle 5]

Fugitive, I would assume so, but you know what Ed says about that

 

I have been on the District Advancement Committee for 8 years now, and I tink we have had about 5 scouts ask for extensions, 3-4 received them because of Medical reasons. I am not sure I can think of a good reason other than medical unless it was for like Katrina. I have heard a bunch of scouts on the Gulf Coast got extensions because they were otherwise engaged for a few years. I can't verufy it, but I would accept and beleive it.

[Eagle92 110]

I had one young man get an extension because a district rep could not make the EBOR before the he went to boot camp. Boot camp put him pass the 3 month extension rule. very long story short, he appealed, was granted extension, passed EBOR, ok'd by national, but never had ECOH due to military obligations.

[Fugitive 10]

OldGreyEagle you bring up something that makes me curious. The ACP&P describe extensions as if the purpose is for completing the board of review. However, it does not describe the purpose as to complete requirements. I have heard that extensions are hard to get.

 

What do all of you think about the purpose of extensions?

 

Since it's a National award can they do what they want?

 

Thanks,

Fugitive