Scout teaching Merit Badge

[egltrl 10]

How do you all feel about an older Scout teaching an Eagle required Merit Badge, (or any Merit Badge) at the Unit level (i.e. not at Summer Camp as Staff )?

[Eagle92 110]

Depending upon the scout and his qualifications, I'ld allow it. for example if the Scout is a BSA Lifeguard, I'ld trust him teaching any aquatics MB. if the scout worked SC, then the I'ld let them continue to teach those MB's.

[BrentAllen 10]

MB Counselors are required to be 18 years old. Are you talking about teaching the material while working with an approved MB Counselor, or working alone? I see no problem with the former, as long as the Scout really knows the material.

[John-in-KC 311]

What BrentAllen said.

 

We recruit MB Counselors because they self-assign special expertise to one or more hobbies/skills/employments where we have a MB. The training literature emphasizes MBs are as much about Adult Association as they are about Advancement.

 

I do know young people who quickly develop hobbies and get good early. Yes, they can provide help and resources for a Scout earning a MB.

 

At the end of the day, though, ACP&P #33088 governs. It's a SCOUTER (18+) who can do the testing and sign off on a MB App.

[Eagle92 110]

Not trying to be a pain in the buttocks, but if a MBC has to be 18, then why are we letting 15-17 Y O scouts sign off on MBs at summer camp? or is it technically the director of each area certifying the scouts earned the MBs, with the staff teaching the classes for him?

 

Yeah I've worked camp and been to camp school, but i worked in the trading post, camp commissioner, and COPE. My experience with teaching a class at camp came about when 1) I was taking BSA Lifeguard, 2)I had 2 50 milers afloat under my belt,so I had lots of experience in a canoe 3) the canoeing MBC was fired, and 4) I was an 18 yo ASM who was also a certified YMCA Lifeguard instructor so alot of the BSA Lifeguard instruction was a review. Grant you I was an adult at the time, but another BSA Lifeguard candidate in the class, was a YMCA lifeguard, 16 YO, and had plenty of sailing experience, had to take over that class since the small boat sailing instructor was also fired. He signed all the paperwork and everything.

[BrentAllen 10]

This is the language provided in our Council camp guide:

 

MERIT BADGE COMPLETION REPORTS

At the end of your camp week, Woodruff will provide your unit with a printed, individual summary

report of all merit badge classes attended and the status of completion. Participants in Mountain Man

will receive a checklist of items accomplished during the week. We do not issue MB-Blue Cards.

 

CAMP ADVANCEMENT POLICY

Woodruff camp staff members are responsible for skill instruction as well as verification that a scout has

demonstrated a skill, completed a merit badge or fulfilled an advancement requirement. Camp staff do

not sign off on any advancement or merit badge requirements, rather they report the achievement to the

unit leader via the end of camp advancement reports. It is the responsibility of the unit leader to actually

award credit for completing advancement or merit badge requirements.

 

 

[TheScout 10]

Even at camps which offer blue card, staff under 18 does not counsel the merit badge. The card is always signed by an actual counselor over 18.

[shortridge 184]

TheScout - I wouldn't be so fast to make such a blanket statement. As a Scoutcraft instructor at one summer camp, I signed off on my first merit badge blue cards at age 15. There was no senior staffer or area director looking over my shoulder or testing the Scouts. We simply didn't have the time or sufficient 18+ staff to do it. This was in the mid-'90s. The only badges where you were guaranteed a "real" 18+ MB counselor were in shooting sports, because you have to be 21+ to teach rifle and shotgun and 18+ to teach archery.

 

When it came my turn as Scoutcraft director, I similarly had a staff of 16-year-old instructors, both former CITs. We did lots of training, and I sat in on their classes when I could - but keep in mind that I was also teaching a full load.

 

This isn't the fault of the staffers, but rather the camps and councils. Until they bump salaries and benefits up enough to the point where summer camp becomes a competitive workplace - particularly when it's competing with summer internships for college students - situations like this are going to continue.

 

Going back to the original question, I'd say no ... unless, as BrentAllen said, he's working in an "apprenticeship"-type arrangement with an adult MB counselor. That could be a beneficial arrangement for both the counselor Scout and the counselee Scout, improving instructional skills while exposing the counselor Scout to a deeper range of knowledge.

[Eagle92 110]

Thanks for the replys. I know that the summer camps I've worked at have had the staff sign off on the MBs, whatever the age.

 

 

[John-in-KC 311]

Eagle92,

 

That is outside ACP*P #33088. There's a specific section on MB counseling in the LT camping program. If I can get to mine tonight, I'll post more specifics.

[BrentAllen 10]

John,

I think this is the section you are refering to:

ACPP #33088, pg. 34

 

Advancement in Summer Camp

 

Camp merit badge counselors must be qualified (see "Qualifications of Counselors," page 13). Camp staff members who are qualified in the subject and are younger than age 18 may assist the merit badge counselor with instruction. The merit badge counselor or instructor in a particular subject should be available to both individuals and groups. However, regardless of the class format, each Scout must be reviewed individually by the counselor to ensure completion of the badge's requirements. Because of the need for continued practice in some subjects, it will be necessary to meet candidates at a certain time each day. For other subjects, it may be necessary to meet as a group once or twice during the week.

 

Each counselor must maintain the exact standards as outlined in the merit badge requirements - nothing deleted, nothing added - and make himself or herself available at the time most convenient to the Scouts. Partial completion of merit badges should be credited to a Scout on the Application for Merit Badge and given to the Scoutmaster at the end of the week.

[Eagle92 110]

Thanks for the posting. I gave my copy away a while back, thinking I wouldn't need a personal copy. Learned my lesson.

 

Interesting in that I wonder how many camps follow the policy. I knwo that at the camps I've worked at and attended, there have been written and skills tests we had to do/give.

 

 

[John-in-KC 311]

I was aquatics commissioner at our Scout Reservation a couple years back, during session. One of the reasons I was there was at the time, my BSA LG was current. Another reason was both the Dir and AD needed to do college business and teaching employment business, so they used their annual vacation back-to-back.

 

The youth staff had me grading the tests, and when the staff was doing event tests in the water, I was wherever I could best see the youth perform.

 

The Dir and AD, whichever was available, were doing similar things with other portions of the class.

 

One man's experience.

[egltrl 10]

Thank you all for taking up the subject and sharing your thoughts.

 

Your discussion centers around the same concerns I have and I wanted to make sure I wasn't making up my own rules or creating concerns where none should exist.

 

The Badges in question are academic, not skill related, the Scout has taught some of them (not all) as Staff at Summer Camp, and this would be a Unit Merit Badge Clinic event. I think this Scout would do a good job, and I'm all in favor of taking any opportunity to develop Scout leadership skills. But...... I'd like to stay with the intent of the Scouting Program.

 

I read the ACP&P the way you do; MBs are accomplished with a qualified Adult Counselor working with a Scout, and there is a specific exemption for LT/Summer Camp.

 

I'm not sure it intended that we migrate this Summer Camp style of Clinic to the Unit level.

 

The non-Camp MB Clinics that are open to all Scouts in our District or Council area are taught by adults who, though they may not work individually with a Scout, usually possess a level of expertise in their subject that more than makes up for any lack of individual contact.

 

 

[TheScout 10]

When I was Ecology Director I trained my staff during staff week and checked out their classes as best as I could during the summer.

 

I had a signature stamp that my staff would use on their cards.