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Showing results for 'Owasippe'.
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OGE, In respose to your "what would happen then" question we won't get to that point in two years if we win this fight. First, the assests at our Camps have been managed poorly for years. CAC owned two plots of land, one forty miles west of Chicago and another in White Hall Michigan. The local camp (Hoover) has been sold for around 18 million dollars, the Michigan camp, Owasippe Scout Reservation hosts five scout camps and a family camp. When those who camped there in the 60's returned with our sons and scouts in the late 80's we saw the problems and moved to correct them. Use of
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Jschlich, Sir, I didnt respond to your first post because we are on the same side. Your work and that of the OOEC is much appreciated by us rank and file volunteers. I feel I must respond now because you keep claiming that the fight with the board and the fight to retain Owasippe are totally seperate. While the sale of Owasippe is not the reason for the law suit brought against the Board, it (the sale) is a result of the refusal of that Board to act in good faith with the CORs and youth it is supposed to represent. The OOEC (Owasippe Outdoor Education Center) was not even form
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PLEASE - refer to my November posting. Owasippe and Chicago Council goverance are two entirely different matters. OldGreyEagle - sorry, splitting hairs about what is a "democracy" in the BSA is exactly what the Chicago Council SE and Board President got into trouble about. It was eleven Chicago Scouters, COR's and Board Members who went to Court to get the matter heard. The Court seems to understand "democracy" while others seem to want to protect the megalomania of BSA Professionals and Officers. Years of operating in the red and the inability of well paid Professionals to a
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Merry Christmas and Happy New Year JKHNY, we havent heard from you in awhile and I hoped you were well. I may be wrong, so I will be open to correction but as far as I underatand it, in all the training courses I have had, no one ever said the BSA had "democratic" representation of volunteers. I have been told its the COR's that elect the Board, not the rank and file scouters. Now, About Owasippe and the CAC, I have no idea whether or not what jkhny alleges is true or not. But, lets say that a "new board" is put in place and after about two years the new board goes to the mem
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I have to give a bit more perspective on the Owasippe matter. The court action in Chicago is concerned about leadership of the Council at the Board level. The Council has had continuing problems for more than a decade. The fact that Learning For Life represents 70%+ of what the Council counts as "membership" is more an indication of the long-term problem in the opinion of many traditional Scouters. Are there other Councils where the traditional scouting programs represent 30% or less that what the Council reports as their membership? The Owasippe sale is a seperate matter an
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I am looking to fill in a few gaps in my flap collection I have to trade flaps from my lodge only Nachamawat #275 I have 1 S35 Conclave 2000 1 S43b 2 S44b 3 S32 30th I am looking for any issue of the following lodges Unami 1 Sakuwit 2 Ranachqua 4 Kittatinny 5 Wagion 6 Owasippe 7 Mascoutens 8
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I also looked up the Owasippe situation, and it appears that the person who was removed from membership led a demonstration picketing outside the service center, and had considered picketing board members' homes until warned not to do so by BSA legal counsel. This is getting pretty far from constructive criticism from the inside. It does seem reasonable at some stage of escalation of conflict for BSA to kick a person out. Where exactly you draw that line I don't know--a single, respectfully worded letter to the editor of the local paper probably shouldn't do it, but picketing the service ce
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Who wanted more "independent" information? Other independent reports. Note the web site link. Explore away. Ron is quite forthcoming about the situation there - as are other CAC members. Note - Ron was "suspended" from BSA for his efforts fighting this sale. So much for members having any voice in BSA. The Scarlet Sassafras - Special Edition Blast ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ August 30, 2005 - http://scarlet_sassafras.tripod.com Opening Quotes: "A Scout Is Courteous" ... the 5th point of the Scout Law. The third principle of the Scout Oath..."to k
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This would be a very useful discussion if one were studying math, algebra, geometry or considering purchasing a Micky D's franchise. I don't see much of value here with regard to the BSA. In fact, I'm not sure I see the relevance of much here to anything. If we're talking about disparity in treatment of St Jean and Smith (and I believe way back there, we were), there may or may not have been. However, if anyone expects the BSA to operate anymore perfectly than any other organization, they are being unrealistic. I have said before that the men who run BSA are the professionals, b
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Nothing in jkh's mention of Owasippe said anything about the unit volunteer's owning the property or having voting rights on it's sale. In fact, the comment was only using Owasippe as an example of what people can find if they start looking around for BSA-related matters, ie, the comment that nothing is "local" anymore. Anyone who wants to spend the time to look around can find published stories about perceived problems with the attempted sale of the land, and, I would bet, the sale of other camp lands owned by BSA Councils as well. And that hurts BSA visibility, as do any of the stories ab
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"She was screaming over how could BSA let a pervert be in charge of Youth Protection." An emotional response based on a shoratge of facts...not unlike your own response. As all the later reports show the BSA had no knowledge of Smith's behavior until after the results of the FBI investigation were completed. Do have evidence otherwise? Because no one else does. Baden-Powell developed the Scouting ideals and its methods including the boy lead program, he did not design or develop the American scouting movement. There are over two hundred scouting programs in the world and they are ne
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The sad thing is that you're never going to hear "complaints" about alot of these issues - like Smith. The people that reacted negatively to it simply will not go near BSA. Anyone hear the rant on Fox by Greta Von Whatever the day that story broke?...and this was FOX the all-American network.....She was screaming over how could BSA let a pervert be in charge of Youth Protection. How many people that MIGHT have been interested in Scouting decided - "no....I don't think so" after that? As far as Owasippe, most Scouters don't have a clue that is happening - unless their own Council
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BSA Chicago "Representative Democracy " (NOT)
Prairie_Scouter replied to jkhny's topic in Issues & Politics
The information in the original post came largely from the district newsletter published by the Fort Dearborn district of the Chicago Area Council. Although the tone reflects the frustration of the author, the facts of the story itself are coming from several writers who apparently attended the meeting. I wouldn't think that a district newsletter would allow blatant misrepresentations of fact about their home council to be published. Smith and St. John are a different topic, to be sure. It does seem that the CAC leaders are playing with the rules a bit to protect their power positio -
THEORY From BSA "talking points" The BSA is a representative democracy .Local councils elect representatives to the National Council, which in turn, sets policy. The BSA procedural methods for input are well-established. As a private organization, the BSA conducts its affairs according to its charter, articles of incorporation, and bylaws. The National Council operates just like local councils. Governance is provided by an elected executive board composed of volunteers. The BSA is a representative democracy that considers diversity of opinions invaluable.
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nld, CAC says that Owasippe is the "oldest continuously operating camp". I guess that the "continuously" is important in the distinction. I don't think that the National office would put any of it's resources behind it, either, but I was just thinking that in the sense that Scouting in the U.S. has a lot of history behind it, some of these kinds of sites might bear some support. So, no, I don't expect BSA to support a camp just because it's "old". There are plenty of things in the U.S. that are "old" that are given support because of their historical significance to some groups. Ow
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Bob, no one said anything about the unit volunteers having anything to say about the sale of Owasippe. I said it would have been good to have a consensus before the sale was completed. That isn't required, but at least then there's a better chance that every idea for saving the camp could have been viewed. As far as the vote goes, there are conflicting stories about what actually occurred. It seems that a majority of the voting quorum were in favor of the sale. However, 3 of the approving votes were reportedly made via conference call, and it's unclear whether this is allowed under t
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>Rather than weep over not being able to go to Owasippe why not grab >your pack and go somewhere else, it's a big world. I don't see anyone "weeping" over Owasippe. The deal to sell the land was done in a very unusual way; in a way that gives the appearance of having done an end run around those in the Chicago Area Council that were against the sale. Owasippe should be a special place for Scouting. It is the oldest continuously operating Boy Scout camp in the U.S. If you include contiguous open land, it is probably large enough to hold the Jamboree if the military stops supportin
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"If a Scout Camp is sold and nobody is there to complain, has it really been sold? " Nobody ever joined BSA because a camp WASN'T there. Many have joined because one was. I had a friend who joined our Troop after hearing stories about our first summer at Scout Camp. My youngest couldn't wait to get into Cub Scouts to go to the same place his brother was going to Day Camp - the place we are now selling. Fewer and fewer members are the primary problem Scouting now faces - and a trend leadership has failed even to slow. BSA may have the unquestioning loyalty of some but it
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The assets of a council and the assets of the BSA are not the same. The council is an independent corporation from the BSA. The BSA does not own your camps. The Council owns your camps, unless it is a national camp within your council such a Philmont. A council has assets, they also have income and expenditures. One way that a council can gain income is by converting physical assets to cash income. For instance. A council can no longer afford to operate munltiple properties. So they take the property that is either the most difficult to upgrade, the most valuable on the market, or has th
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From the "Camp Kilworth bites the dust" thread "This land is worth millions of dollars but, there's a catch, BSA doesn't own it. In this case, the deed stipulates that if the camp is not maintained and used by the "Tacoma area Boy Scouts", the ownership of the property will revert back to the Kilworth heirs. BSA can't sell the property because it doesn't own it. To get around this provision, the local council has struck a deal with a few representatives of the Kilworth family. BSA will give back the property if the Kilworths will cut them in for a major portion of the profits. They'
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I can't speak to all of jk's assertions, but the Chicago press was pretty clear in it's coverage that the vote to sell Owasippe by the CAC was done in a way that seemed quite a bit out of the norm. The vote was done by phone, covering the minimum numbers of voters to carry the vote, with a large number of other voters not contacted.
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The letter below was published in response to one trying to justify the sale of Owasippe. It was forwarded as part of a package but it sums things up nicely. The volunteers there have voted down the candidates for their board twice but cannot oust curretn leadership Note the comments referring to Learning for Life. Chicago was teh center of a scandal regarding its precurser program in the 1970's. Is this the future of Scouting? Sell off all the camps, ignore the SCouters and focus on LFL because ther you can BUY numbers (of fake them easier) BTW the National head of LFL i
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If not AP Hill, then where?
Prairie_Scouter replied to SemperParatus's topic in Open Discussion - Program
Well, I might throw out the idea of using the Owasippe Scout Reservation in Michigan. It is the oldest continuously operating Scout camp in the U.S. It is on a large tract of land. I forget the exact acreage, but it is a big place, and has state forest land continguous to it. The camp is owned by the Chicago Area Council, which is trying to sell the camp because it cannot afford to run it any longer. Making Owasippe the home of Jambo would solve 2 problems. One, it would remove the risk of ever being forced to leave because it is on land owned by BSA. Two, it solves the problem of fundin -
My son just got back from a week at 3 Fires Council, Camp Freeland Leslie. The boys really like the camp. It has a First Class Trail, COPE Course & High Adventure. It is up by the Wisconsin Dells, not far from Devil's Lake SP. Part of the camp's High Adventure program is climbing & rappelling at Devil's Lake & canoeing in the Dells. The Troop took 1 day off to go to Devil's Lake & hike the cliffs. You might also consider Chicago Council's Owasippe. It might be a bit longer of a trip as it is northwest of Grand Rapids, outside of Whitehall, MI, but it is a historic ca
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Hey, the Chicago Area Council runs Camp Owasippe in Michigan. Next year is probably the last year and will be the 95th anniversary of the camp (established in 1911). They have a bid on the camp, sold out from under us scouts & scouters, but it's gorgeous, the camp staff run a bunch of great programs and scouts do earn some merit badges. And it's right near the Manistee Forest. If interested, they are taking reservations now for the summer of 2006.
