dfscott

Thanks for the quick replies!

And eisley, I thought about adding some temporary insignia as well -- I need to go digging for something!

Ok, one more question:

I originally thought that the CoH was where the awards were presented, but then I saw this excerpt from the Advancement Guide:

"Each time a Scout advances in rank, he should be recognized on two occasions. The first should occur as soon as possible after a Scout has been approved by a board of review and an Advancement Report has been filed with the council office - preferably at the next unit meeting. This ceremony should be dignified but simple, involving not much more than presenting the Scout with his new badge of rank.

The second occasion is a court of honor, a public ceremony to recognize Scouts for successful achievement and to describe the importance of the program. The main purposes of the court of honor are to furnish formal recognition for achievement and to provide incentive for other Scouts to advance."

But lots of the scripts I found online had the presentation of the badges as part of the CoH, so now I'm confused. If I already have the badges, can I present them to the boys early and the CoH can be just recognition? (That might also solve my "empty merit badge sash" question...

As SM of a new troop, we're having our first Court of Honor next week (and all the boys are advancing!). I've had a couple of attire questions come up that I'm looking for help with. As background, we're having this in the sanctuary of our CO (church) and following up with a spaghetti dinner in the fellowship hall.

1) What should the parents, friends and other members of the audience wear? My first thought was something along the lines of "business casual," but since it's in the church, should it be more formal? (this is a regular CoH, of course, not an Eagle).

2) One of my scouts is earning his first merit badge. He is super-excited about it and has already gotten a sash. Is there any reason why he can't wear his sash and have the merit badge pinned on during the ceremony? He wanted to, but then thought it was weird to wear it with nothing on it?

Thanks...

>> FIRST, get rid of the Joining Requirements and "Scout" as a non-rank rank. Acceptance of the application form and fees should be sufficient to officially be a Boy Scout.

This one has always confused me anyway. If a boy shows up to a Troop and he can't tie a square knot, does that mean I can't take him in the troop? Or do I take him and don't give him a scout badge?

>> If you plan to recruit new Scouts and improve retention, you are better off starting

>> with one "Real" Patrol of ten Scouts, under your most mature Scout as Patrol Leader.

This sounds great. I'm going to try that and we expect to get another 4-6 boys in the winter. At that time, we can look at where we are numbers-wise and stick with one or split into two.

So, it looks like our new troop will initially have one patrol of 10 scouts. Given that, I'm trying to figure out what our PLC should look like. We hadn't planned to elect a SPL for a one-patrol troop, but if we don't we end up with just a PL and TG in a room doing all the planning.

My initial thoughts were to go ahead and elect a SPL. But now I have 9 guys in one patrol and the SPL off on his own (so maybe I leave the SPL in the patrol)?

Another idea is to split the 10 into two groups of 5, but I'm expecting some attrition, so that would be a temporary solution at best.

Also, we could elect some other troop level positions (QM, Scribe) and have them attend (and maybe even vote), which could give the PLC a few more members so there could be some actual discussion.

Maybe I'm worried about nothing and it would be ok to have the PL and TG running the show?

Any other ideas?

Thanks for all the feedback and I apologize for the delays in replying.

As an update, after a couple of recruiting meetings, we're up to 6-8 scouts, so with some help from our DE, we are very close to our chartering goal.

We have put together our troop committee, made up of 4 adults (COR/CC, Chaplain, and two others). I have myself as SM and 2 ASM's on-board.

Thanks for the info on the pilot program ES1996 -- I wasn't aware of that so that explains a lot. We have signed our Unit Commissioner (under the 3-year rule, you mentioned). He's been out of a scouting for a year or two, but is an eagle scout and former SM, so he should be an excellent resource. We also have a very good relationship with the South Fulton Council, and they are helping as well.

And yes, we wanted to attend the Next 100 event, but we didn't find out about it until after we'd already sent out invites to our Troop Open House, so we couldn't make it (although we're supposed to be getting some info later).

Thanks for the good wishes, and I'll keep you posted on how it goes.

Yes, South Fulton is very active, as is Button-Gwinnett, Foothills and others. All are a significant distance away, mainly due to traffic, not distance. Take a look at the map here:

http://troop317.com/images/Atlanta-Council-map.gif

See those little light green areas marked N, S, E, and W? Those are districts. Do they need to be killed? Maybe, but there's an awful lot of cubs there.

And yes, I guess there is something else going on: my wife and I both sit on the East Atlanta District Committee, so we do have an ulterior motive (although I think it's more of a "two birds with one stone" motive). We are charged with getting the district back moving again and yes, there is only one active troop (I know you can find about a half-dozen listed, but as our district commissioner can tell you, none of them meet -- he's tried to visit them).

To answer the other question, most boys are just dropping out after earning their AOL. I'm only aware of one boy from our Pack that is still in Boy Scouts, and he joined a troop in a nearby district and still hasn't earned his Tenderfoot after 12 months in the troop. We did have one troop going in the area a while back, but then some hazing issue came up (rather serious, I believe, since the sheriff got involved) and that troop disintegrated.

Will people drive 30 minutes to a scout meeting? Some will, but many won't, especially since they're used to being able to drive 10 to their cub meeting. I suppose I could chuck the whole idea and just throw in my lot with one of the mega-troops, but it's not really in my nature to have my sons in an activity without being very involved, and these troops seem to have things running on rails now.

I'm in the process of wrapping up Arrow of Light with 4 boys in my Webelos Den and they're chomping at the bit to join a Boy Scout Troop. The problem is that there is only one Troop in our District, and it only meets monthly on Sunday afternoons and rarely camps, which is what my boys are eager to do. It seems that most of our District's boys have been joining Troops in other Districts, and then dropping out when they start getting sick of the drive.

My wife and I are both active scouters, so we decided to start a new Troop. The problem is that we currently only have 5-6 boys that are wanting to join, and while I thought that was enough (the New Unit form says it is!), our Council is requiring 10 boys to start a new troop.

So, I'm wondering is maybe I could have all these boys become "Lone Scouts", and myself and the other ASMs become their "Advisors" until such time as we reach the magic 10-boy limit (which I would expect to hit in December when 5 more would be eligible to cross over). We could have meetings that are VERY similar to Troop meetings, etc. Any reason why we couldn't do that?

>> For what it's worth, Baden-Powell's minimum standard for the Patrol System is 150-300 feet, not yards

Oops, Kudu, that was a typo on my part. I told them "football field field distance is recommended." Probably not a good analogy since that implies a loooong distance.

I really think the main issue is the "boys in their own tents without parents," and this is because of some recent history in our area. To make a long story short, we used to have a troop in our area (2 years ago) and during a campout, there was some inappropriate behavior by some of the older boys towards the a couple of new crossovers. The result was that the two crossovers left scouting completely (a real shame since one of them was a standout cub) and two older scouts got banned from scouts. The drama caused the troop to collapse and left everyone extremely gun-shy.

I like your idea of keeping the distance short and slowing increasing it.

>> Avoid electing Patrol Leaders for as long as humanly possible.

You surprised me with this one. Do you suggest letting a Troop Guide and/or dedicated ASM lead them until they get older? Or are you talking about simply giving them a few weeks? months? to learn the ropes, internalize ILST, etc. before elections? Or do they just run as a group with direction (as needed) from adult leaders?

Update:

After meeting with the Adults that will soon be the Troop Committee, I met some stiff resistance in some areas. Namely, "300 yards -- with no adults!" and "the poor SPL with no patrol to call home."

Since I don't expect to have more than 2 patrols at most, I've elected to forgo the SPL position for the time being. I plan to use a service patrol/program patrol rotation to run the meetings and I'll have an ASM to work in an advisory role to if needed.

For the former issue, I brought up Troop Guides, but we don't expect to have any experienced scouts. So, we'll start with ASMs serving as Troop Guides (and yes, I'll have to train and watch them well to keep them from being "den leaders"). Next year, when we get some experienced boys that have knowledge to teach, we'll put them in the Troop Guide positions.

The other thing I got hit with was "First Class First Year." Apparently, some of the adults have been reading and have gotten all excited about quick advancement (would you be surprised to know that most of our Troop Committee were former Pack Committee Members?). They are even talking about trying to get everyone to eagle in 4 years!

In the spirit of compromise, I've found some of the FCFY stuff but it looks like it really restricts what you can do when, particularly with respect to outings. Also, some of the things that are planned for a single Troop meeting look like they could be very time-consuming. I'm willing to give it a try, but based on some of the other threads on this forum, it definitely seems like a hotly debated topic, so I though I'd get some feedback from the group first.

Thanks, all, for all the comments. My new plan is this:

Month 1 (June) outing: Cherokee Trail at Stone Mtn State Park. It's a 5 mile loop trail with lots to see on the way. There's a spot about 1/2 way with picnic tables, so we'll stop for lunch there.

Month 2 (July) outing: Let the boys pick: camping or another hike. If hike, I'll give them a choice of several 6-10 mile treks. If camping, I'll try and get into Camp 175 (camp175.com) -- looks like nice, safe camping for new boys. Depending on troop supplies, we'll either tent camp or look at the Adirondacks.

Month 3 (August) outing: Definitely camping this time. We have a district committee member that has some land she lets boys camp on. No latrines, but running water. This will be tent camping.

Month 4 (Sept) outing: Maybe a longer hike this time. Give them boys a choice of some trails to pick from. (This might be a good time for the Kennesaw Mtn trip if the dates sync up!)

Month 5 (Oct) outing: This is already planned: we're doing Cub 'n' Camporee at Camp Jamison (Boy Scout Camp). This will be a nice chance for the boys to show off what they've learned to their friends that are still in Cubs, and should also get the Cubs excited.

Month 6 (Nov) outing: Not sure -- hopefully by now, I can suggest a program feature and let the boys decide what they want to do to accomplish it.

Thoughts, feedback, is welcome.

EDIT: The Battle of Kennesaw Mountain weekend is June 25th, so I'll probably try to do that -- looks like some cool stuff:

10:00 - Infantry Demonstration

11:00 - Artillery Demonstration

11:30 - Signal Corps/Telegraph

12:00 - Infantry Demonstration

1:00 - Artillery Demonstration

1:30 - Signal Corps/ Telegraph

2:00 - Infantry Demonstration

3:00 - Artillery Demonstration(This message has been edited by dfscott)

Thanks for the speedy replies.

In retrospect, 5 miles is probably a better plan. We're an "urban troop" -- located about a miles from Turner Field in downtown Atlanta, so just about any hiking is going to be a car ride (maybe nearby Stone Mountain might be a good initial hike).

And when I say "new troop" -- I really mean "new troop", not new patrol. I'll probably treat them like a NSP, but there are no senior scouts to help out, and my scouting career is waaaay in my rear-view mirror (but at least I had one, right?)

All kidding aside, although the boys haven't spent much time outdoors, I have been working with one of the groups on the patrol method -- I have the denner do as much as possible, so they do expect a little more latitude/control than most cubs.

In May, I'm going to be SM of a brand new troop. Despite our efforts to recruit older boys, it looks like we'll have about 10-12 1st year scouts (former Webelos). We'll have one 12-year-old and the rest will be 10 or 11. Half these boys came from a Webelos Den that focused on lots of service projects but not much camping. The other half came from a den that focused on advancement, but again: not much camping.

Due to the timing of the start date, I'm not going to be able to get them into Summer Camp before the registration deadline (nor do I think they'd be ready -- it's in June). So, at the request of the CC, I'm putting together a program to get them outdoors, keep them interested, and heading towards 1st class until I can get the boy-led part working.

I plan to use the New Troop 1st month plan as suggested in the SM's handbook, with the exception of not electing a SPL at this time. With a small group like this, I don't want to pull any boys out of their patrol and have them miss out on that experience. I'll probably have an ASM acting as SPL for the first few months anyway until I get the hang of it.

The SM HB plan recommends the first outing be a hike, so I'm thinking about a 10-mile round-trip or something similar (is that too long?).

For the second month, I'm torn between going to a 20 RT hike (as suggested at the end of the thread this was spun off from) or jumping straight into camping.

Speaking of camping, I ran into BSA 101/102 at scoutmaster.org -- does anyone have any thoughts on using that?

Thanks in advance for any advice!

-David

We were getting pushed by our DE to run a "year-round program." Our pack misinterpreted that to mean "start working on advancement ASAP." Live and learn...

Good point, 2Cub. I had "bear" of a time with my Wolves when they transitioned to Bears. We started early in the spring and went whole hog after advancement in the summer, but then in the fall when we got our new influx of Cubs, we had to either repeat stuff or force the new guys to play catch-up.

Also, to further complicate matters, the troop is a brand new troop. We're only getting my 4 early boys, the 4 leftovers from the Web 2 den that imploded, and 2-3 others from a nearby troop that has also ran out of gas. So for all practical purposes, we're going to have nothing but new scout patrols.

The way I envision it going is to form 2 small patrols with the first 10-11 boys. When the remaining 5 come over (hopefully with more from other Packs), we'll either add to the existing patrols or completely dissolve the existing patrols and reform them all

I know that whether to keep patrols together or to periodically mix them is a hot topic of debate, so I'd love to have input for the vets on that as well, even if it is something I don't have to worry about for a while.

Thanks, qwazse - I like that idea. I've mapped out the AOL year, and it works out that everything wraps up around that time anyway. I'm planning a couple of fall joint campouts (for Outdoorsman and AOL) so that should keep them all in touch.

The Bear Den has some issues as well. It's made up of 12 boys with a single Den Leader (no ADLs). The CM has been pushing him to split the den and/or get an ADL, but he's resisted, saying he can "handle it." I'm a little worried pushing more boys into that Den.

The Scout Troop is brand new (will be chartered this April), so we have some flexibility on when we accept scouts.

I'm facing a hairy situation as a Webelos Den Leader. I'm leading first year Webelos, but two of the boys are newly joined 5th graders (our 2nd year Webelos Den fell apart early in the fall). Things have gone great with the den to this point, with 7 of my 9 boys earning the Webelos Badge at the B&G.

At the same time, my two fifth graders have been independently working towards AOL, and plan to get it by May. A couple of the other boys have caught the "AOL Fever" and have been working on it as well (they are "red-shirt 4th graders" so they are eligible age-wise.

So now, it looks like we'll have 4 boys crossing over in May, but a couple of others want to cross as well. As an FYI, I'm also Scoutmaster of the Troop that at least 3 of them are planning to cross over to.

So, it looks like I'm going to start a fall AOL den with 5 boys. The question is, as they become pass the AOL requirements, should they join the troop right away, or remain in the Web den (effectively marking time) until the rest of them are ready? Based on the schedule I've laid out (which includes a lot of group Web/Scout camping) most of them should be ready to bridge by the end of October, which the remaining few just needing to wait until they're 10-1/2. However, my Pack CC is encouraging me to keep any that don't make it in May in the Pack until next May, which I'm afraid it going to bore a lot of them. However, he has a point that if the strong boys leave, that will leave the den with only the less motivated boys, and it may suffer the same implosion fate that the previous 2nd year Web den did.