CHLees3rd
-
Content Count
93 -
Joined
-
Last visited
Content Type
Profiles
Forums
Articles
Store
Posts posted by CHLees3rd
-
-
Supplemental training is pretty much any training done outside of position-specific courses and advanced courses such as Wood Badge, Seabadge, and Powder Horn. A couple that come to mind are Trainer's EDGE and University of Scouting.
The requirement you are trying to complete states to "Participate in a supplemental training course at either the council or national level." Check out your council's website to see what courses it is offering or check out neighboring councils' websites.
Chazz Lees
-
On another list/forum/group, I read that our National Commissioner, Tico Perez, told commissioners attending a course at the Philmont Training Center that the National Executive Board had approved the "One Oath Initiative" - doing away with the Cub Scout Oath, the Law of the Pack, the Venturing Oath and Venturing Code "One Oath Initiative" in favor of the using the Boy Scout Oath and Law for all divisions. According to the post, he explained it as Cubs will learn the words. Boy Scouts will live the words. And Venturing will carry the words on into adult life. (Tico is this accurate or are things missing?)
Im curious as to what others think of the initiative. Below is my reply to thread.
____________
I have two reasons why I oppose the One Oath Initiative.
My first objection has to do with the way Scouts progress through the program. The Girl Scouts of the USA (GSUSA) has one promise and one law for all six of its levels. Girls generally start at as a Daisy and bridges up to the next level roughly every two years. Since every Girl Scout follows the natural progression through the levels, it makes sense that they share the same promise and law.
The Boy Scouts of America does not run like the GSUSA does. Most of our Scouts start in Cub Scout Packs as Tigers moving up every year towards WEBELOS before becoming joining troops as Boy Scouts. Up to this point the progression is pretty straight forward: Bobcat-Tiger-Wolf-Bear-WEBELOS-Boy Scout. It is at the Boy Scout level where things get crazy because of options.
Most Boy Scouts go through the program and then became Assistant Scoutmasters having never been Venturers: Boy Scout-ASM. Some Boy Scouts leave troops and join crews only being Venturers: Boy Scout-Venturer. And still there are other Boy Scouts who dual register as Venturers: Boy Scout/Venturer.
Add the transition from youth to adult adds even more craziness. You can have Boy Scout/Venturer Venturer/ASM ASM/Advisor and other related combinations.
This doesnt even take into consideration our Sea Scout program which just adds to the mix. Since the BSA does not have a natural progression of all Scouts from first grade to age 21, I do not see a need for the One Oath Initiative especially when the Cub Scout Promise, the Scout Oath, and the Venturing Code all say basically the same thing: Duty to self, duty to God, and duty to others.
My second reason is more personal. My son has special needs and our school district has a two-year kindergarten program for children with special needs. I have heard of other districts that run similar programs but call the first year kindergarten and the second year transitional. Since my school district calls both years kindergarten, my son is not yet eligible to join Cub Scouts. With nothing but time on our hands now, we recite the Cub Scout Promise, Law, Motto and the meaning of WEBELOS every night at bedtime. He is very close to reciting each one by himself. He smiles because he is learning it and I smile because his hard work is paying off. I have shown him my Cub Scout shirt and he has felt all the badges. I point to my Bobcat badge and tell him that it could be his first badge too just like it was mine. He cant wait to be a Cub Scout. This initiative would really screw up our plans!
Chazz Lees
-
I usually wear my campaign hat, but I wore my red beret to a pack meeting last week for a change. It was a commissioner visit for me, and many adults commented about it asking if I replaced my "Smokey the Bear hat." Most hadn't see red beret in decades, and many told me that it looked pretty good with my red jacket.
Chazz Lees
-
Neal is correct. Only an understanding of and an agreement to live by the Oath, Law, Motto, Slogan as well as the Outdoor Code is required. I read the post incorrectly and got fixated on Tenderfoot. When you meet with the Scout, have him open the book and read all of them with you. Then have him explain what it means so that you get that he understands them. If he is not sure about something, the two of you can talk about it until he understands. When you are done, just ask him if he agrees to live by them.
Good luck,
Chazz Lees
-
I'm going to add to Basement's post. When you call the two aside, put them at ease first so that it doesn't appear like an inquisition. Tell the father that you only want him to watch and then tell the Scout that all you need him to do is recite the Scout Oath and Law. If the Scout appears to get nervous, tell him to breathe and take his time. Tell him to make the Scout sign and start when he is ready. If he recites it correctly all the way through, then your job is done. However, if he goofs a little bit, wait until he is finished and tell him it is not quite right. Inform him what was wrong and what the correction is. Do not let him do it again at that time. Tell him that you will try it again next week. Be upbeat about it.
Now if the Scout really goofs it or is having a ton of trouble. Politely interrupt him and say, "It is OK if you do not know it right now. Let's work on it because you need to know it correctly. Heck, you will probably be saying it for the rest of your life." Give him some helpful ways to memorize it such as reciting one line at a time and adding the next line (i.e. On my honor. On my honor, I will do my best. On my honor, I will do my best, to do my duty. And so on.) Another way is to write down just the first two letters of each word in the Oath as a cheat sheet from which to practice (i.e. On my ho, I wi do my be...) Motivate the Scout to earn his badge and he will. And praise him accordingly when he completes his task.
Does your troop recite the Oath and Law every troop meeting? The more times Scouts recite it correctly, the easier it will become. This is what my Girl Scout troop did right from the beginning when the girls were in kindergarten. We kept reciting it every meeting and had them go home to practice it. They all learned it. I do the same thing with my five-year-old son. We recite the Cub Scout Promise, Law, Motto, and what Webelos means every night at bedtime. My son needs the extra time to learn them so we are starting early.
Good luck,
Chazz Lees
-
People can not be Assistant Scoutmasters and Troop Committee Members at the same time. With one exception regarding the COR, the position you put on your application is the only one you hold. So if an Assistant Scoutmaster is performing the role that is usually a Troop Committee Member's job, then the Assistant Scoutmaster needs to make a choice. The Assistant Scoutmaster is going to stay an Assistant Scoutmaster and perform the Assistant Scoutmaster role or the person is going to resubmit an adult application to be a Troop Committee Member and perform that role. The same goes for a Troop Committee Member acting as an Assistant Scoutmaster. A choice needs to be made. If a troop does not have enough Assistant Scoutmasters or Troop Committee Members, the troop needs to do some recruiting. With that said, if everyone is doing the job for which they are registered, there will be no conflicts of interest.
Of course, there are troops out there which have monthly adult meetings which all registered adults attending regardless of position. Many troops call these meetings Committee Meetings. Is it the way the program is supposed to be presented? No. Should it be changed? Yes. Can you change it? Yes, but you will need to be the top dog to do so effectively.
As for recruiting merit badge counselors, I would say that we all as Scouters are responsible for recruiting them. If you come across someone who might be a good counselor for a particular merit badge or group of merit badges, ask if he/she would like to be a counselor? If the person says yes, get his/her information and contact the District or Council person on the Advancement Committee. I'm sure that the point person would be real appreciative.
As for an online version of the Troop Committee Handbook, you will probably need to do a bunch of searches. You may find that troops have posted it on their websites, but that the document has been customized for their troop.
Good luck,
Chazz Lees
-
Eagle92,
In theory, the endowment fund can not be touched. However, I have seen council dip into its endowment fund when it did not have enough for the operations. I am not sure if council has to pay it back like a 401K loan. All I know is that less interest is generated for the future.
Chazz Lees
-
Scoutingagain,
I guess the questions is did the AHG ask for a week long conference at Philmont or did the BSA offer Philmont up? If the AHG asked, then I wonder if the BSA would be willing for other group with which it has relationships to use Philmont. If the BSA proffered Philmont and it has never done so in the past, then I think someone in the BSA has an agenda for the AHG more so than it has with other partners. Regardless, I still think the BSA is into this relationship way too much than it should be and it is not a good fit for all of the BSA.
Chazz Lees
-
Scoutingagain,
The point is that the BSA is favoring the AHG over most other religiously exclusive groups with which it has partnered. How many other non-BSA groups have a weeklong conference dedicated to them at Philmont? How many of them are allowed to attend our training courses? I do not have a problem with them joining up with another group when there is the potential for new BSA members; however, I do have a problem with the BSA showing favoritism towards one group over others when many within the BSA can not join unconditionally (i.e. daughters of non-Christian BSA families who want the Scouting experience without the overtly Christian overtones.)
Chazz Lees
-
Sailing,
No offense here either and I too am an Eagle Scout.
I have met hundreds of Eagle Scouts over the years; however, I have only met one Quartermaster Sea Scout. And he earned it long before I was born!
I wished I had known about it when I was younger. I would have loved a chance at earning it.
During the past year, I have heard about a half dozen Eagle Scouts and their parents in my area say that there is not much left for the Eagle to do in Scouting since they've made Eagle. I pointed out the Quartermaster Award and told them that their Eagle Scouts had to age 21 to earn it. No one has risen to the challenge. I've also mentioned the Ranger Award and Venturing Silver Award. Again, they do nothing.
Like I said in the other thread, most everyday people only know Eagle Scout. They are not aware of the other awards which is too bad. Everyone seems brainwashed that Eagle is the pinnacle of all Scouting which we know that it is not. It would be nice if National put as much effort to let the general public know about Sea Scouting and Venturing as it has been doing with the Summit. Perhaps everyday people would appreciate more the accomplishments of Quartermaster and Venturing Silver.
Chazz Lees(This message has been edited by CHLEes3rd)
-
When I enlisted in the Marines back in the mid-90's, Eagle Scouts were guaranteed E-2. I was promoted to E-2 at MEPS the morning I left and got paid as an E-2 throughout recruit training. I just wasn't officially a PFC until I earned the title of Marine.
Chazz Lees
-
I found this online: http://www.navycs.com/navy-advanced-paygrade.html
Eagle Scout, Sea Scout Quartermaster, Girl Scout Gold Award gets you pay grade E-3 in the U.S. Navy.
Chazz Lees
-
Promotion to pay grade E-2 is available for Eagle Scout Award and Girl Scout Gold Award recipients I believe in all services. Promotion to E-3 in the Navy and Coast Guard for Sea Scouts who attain the Quartermaster Award. I am not aware of any promotions for the Venturing Silver Award or the Ranger Award.
Chazz Lees
-
qwazse,
Just so I understand you properly, four years ago you attended a pack meeting and asked a girl, whom I assume was a sibling of a Cub Scout, if she would be interested in camping, hiking, swimming, etc. and maybe becoming an Eagle if the option was available, and she said yes to everything but no to becoming an Eagle if the option was available. Do I have it right? Apparently she didn't mind that you told her that she had to wait a few years until she was Venturing age to join and finally do the camping, hiking, swimming, etc? At least she is finally a member doing the things she wants to do. I hope she succeeds.
As for no demand because of Venturing Silver, the demand was there over thirty years ago when I was a young Boy Scout. Girls in my class used to tell me how unfair it was that they could not join our organization and do the things we did including earning Eagle. I think high school girls today are just wise enough not to let themselves think about ever becoming Eagles because in all likelihood it will never happen. What bother putting themselves through such misery worrying about it. They just take advantage of what is available. Maybe if Eagle was available to them, then maybe you would see the demand.
As for the interview question of "I see Venturing Silver on your resume`. What's that?" I think that is a great question and will go a long way to help Venturing finally get the recognition it deserves from the general public once employers stop following up the candidate's explanation with "So it is kinda like being an Eagle Scout?" Yes, some Venturers and Girl Scouts have told me that is what their interviewer said.
Chazz Lees
-
I do not have a problem with the BSA and AHG having a MMS as the BSA has MMS's with other organizations; however, what I object to is the extreme lengths the BSA has gone to assist the AHG (such as the use of our YPT; a week long conference at Philmont; allowing Wood Badge attendance, etc.) when many of our highly dedicated Scouting families who are non-Christian will see no benefit. I bet there are many non-Christian Scouters who want a similar program for the daughters to join so that they get a great Scouting experience just like the sons. The AHG says that all are welcome, but does anyone know of any AHG troops that have a predominantly Jewish membership or Buddist or Islamic? Unfortunately, while this ready made girls' program might be a good fit for many in the BSA, the AHG is not a great fit for all in the BSA. If the BSA won't allow CO's the option to have co-ed troops, teams, and packs, then I just wish the BSA had been a bit braver and established it own girls' program to parallel the boys' program. That way each program would have had the same ideals making it a better option for all BSA members and not just the Christian members.
Chazz Lees
-
qwazse,
Youre talking about a high school girl who is not interested in Eagle. When troops go recruiting for members, they generally do not go to the local high school. Instead they go to the local pack with has elementary school aged boys who are eager for adventure and want to get on the Trail to Eagle. Who is to say that there are not any elementary school aged girls who also want adventure and to get on the Trail to Eagle? Since the BSA does not allow them to join, we never ask. And since we never ask, they never get to answer. Eventually they become high school aged students who couldnt care less about earning Eagle just like the boys!
As for the specialness of the awards, I say that the Girl Scout who earned her Girl Scout Gold Award should be proud. It is the highest award that a Girl Scout Senior or Ambassador can attain; however, the Girl Scout Gold Award, the Eagle Scout Award and the Venturing Silver Award are all vastly different from one another. Each has different requirements which produce different products, and depending on the age of the award, each has a different prestige factor. Ask someone on the street about the 100 year old Eagle Scout Award and they most likely will not know exactly what is needed to earn it, but will know it take a certain something big to get it done. Ask someone on the street about the Girl Scout Gold Award, and the first thing they will think about is cookies because you said Girl Scout. Ask someone on the street about the Venturing Silver Award and youll probably get a blank stare. It is unfortunate because both the Girl Scout Gold Award and the Venturing Silver Award require much in order to be earned just like the Eagle Scout Award, yet the general public is clueless about them. This is what makes Eagle Scout special. The general public holds it in high esteem. Too bad the girls who would like to try for it are not allowed to earn it.
If you are ever at a Pack meeting where WEBELOS are crossing over to troops and you see sisterly siblings there, ask them if they would be interested in doing the camping, hiking, swimming, etc. and maybe becoming Eagle Scouts like the boys. Just maybe you will hear the demand.
Chazz Lees
-
"There's just not a demand."
Are we sure about that? I have read posts about some Venturing aged girls stating that they are not interested, but has anyone asked any girls ages 10 and 11 if they would like the chance to earn the Eagle Scout award just like the boys have? I wonder if the have different goals than their older counterparts? I think it is the same as if we asked a 16 year old boy in Venturing who has no Boy Scouting experience if he wants to join and work extremely hard within a tight deadline to be an Eagle. He most likely will not be interested either. We are not asking the correct age group. I'm pretty sure that some of my Girl Scouts would jump at the chance with both feet to earn something as special and as well known as Eagle Scout given the option! I'm pretty sure their parents would be all for it too given the prestige of the Eagle Scout award.
Chazz Lees
-
BadenP,
I'm a Wood Badge-trained, Powder Horn-trained Eagle Scout with over 30 years in Scouting. I'm also a Girl Scout leader in my daughter's Girl Scout Brownie troop because I want her to have a great Scouting experience just like I did. Sure we have done the ridiculous cookie sales and fall product sales, but we have also sung songs and played games that I remember from my Cub Scout and Boy Scout days that they have not done or heard. We have also camped, hiked, cooked, done same orienteering, first aid, crafts, field trips, community service projects, international badges via WAGGGS, and international SWAPS via my contacts with Guiders and Scouters from around the world. Very few troops in my local area come close to doing the things my daughter's troop does, even the Senior and Ambassador troops. And even though I catch myself being a tad bit harder on my daughter at Girl Scout functions, she likes me being one of her leaders. She has told me so! That may very well change as she gets older, but it is nothing new for teenagers. I remember quite a few Boy Scouts when I was younger who didn't like their dads in our troop either.
Chazz Lees
-
Basement posted, "The DE's job stinks......No doubt about it.
Not sure why anyone would ever want to do it......."
I suppose most DE's know that if they can last a handful of years and keep getting promoted, a nice SE job with a much better salary will eventually be waiting for them. And after a few more years, an even better SE job will be available somewhere.
Chazz Lees
-
Thanks, Kudu. I understand your point now.
Chazz Lees
-
Kudu,
You posted "Lesson Learned: Don't Suck Up." I am not sure what you mean by it. Please explain.
Chazz Lees
-
Eagle,
I'm curious about what other things your SM friend did during the first few days of camp that may have led to him being blindsided on Tuesday? Do you know if he spoke daily with the new Scouts? Did he notice anything not right when he spoke to them? Did he speak with the Troop Guide and try to see if any of the new Scouts were feeling homesick? Does he think he could have been more proactive to prevent the Scouts from calling home for the parents to pick them up?
Instead of discouraging the cell phones, he might want to consider speaking with the Scouts and possibly having a really troubled Scout call home with him there to speak with the parent too. After the Scout tells of all his homesick thoughts to his parents, the Scoutmaster can give a truer picture of what is going on at camp. "I saw Bob at his archery course today and he was having a great time because he hit three with the blue ring and I saw him after he went to troop swim. Things are fine here. If you hear otherwise, feel free to follow up with me. Wouldn't want you to trek all the way out here for nothing." Turn the tables and make a negative a positive.
If he did try to keep his finger on the pulse of the troop and boys still left, then he did his best. However, if he was blindsided because he did not speak with the Scouts regularly, then it is a learning opportunity for him.
Chazz Lees(This message has been edited by CHLees3rd)
-
Eagle,
I am a Unit Commissioner. If I was visiting your unit and you mentioned your situation to me, I would ask you what you think the real problem is and what your next step should be given that the PLC has already issued its edit regarding recent events? The way I see it, the issues are inappropriate times to use electronic devices and the complacency of the PLC. This is one major learning opportunity for everyone involved: the texting Scout, the SPL, the PLC, and the troop in general.
You as a Scouter want to support your Scouts especially the ones leading the troop. Your only tools really are Scoutmaster Conferences and Board of Review. Have Scoutmaster Conferences with the Scouts who use their electronic devices at inappropriate times that you witness regardless if the PLC confiscates the devices. You are not undermining the PLC's authority; you are just trying to get the Scouts refocused on doing the right thing before the PLC catches them. If you need to multiple Scoutmaster Conferences with certain Scouts about the same thing, mention it to the Troop Committee Members conducting the Boards of Review. Let them question the Scouts about not being courteous. The Board may not advance the Scouts at that time based on their answers. That would be a wake up call that really hits home.
The same goes for the PLC. Since it made a confiscation rule, I would make them enforce it. The members of the PLC need to understand that it is time to "put up or shut up." Making rule and not enforcing them is twice a bad that just ignore the problem because it shows that they really do not care. If you witness a member of the PLC not enforcing the rule, call him on it. The PLC members need to know that there are consequences for all actions, or in this case, inactions! Scoutmaster Conferences about meaning leadership and Scout Spirit are needed. Ask the Scout, "Why are you not enforcing a rule you made? What message do you think the Scouts get from you lack of enforcement? Do you think imposing a ban was the best option? Are there other ways to change the behaviors of the Scouts?" If the PLC does not follow through with its rule, have the Board question them during Boards of Review. The Board not advancing the SPL to Life until he improves his leadership skills sends a huge wake up call!
I would hope that the rest of the Scouts in the troop would notice what was happening and self-correct themselves before it was an issue. If so, then the troop will have less issues regarding inappropriate use of electronic devices and the PLC will be more thoughtful with how it run the troop.
Good luck,
Chazz Lees
-
Instead of Pack Trainer perhaps Pack Training Coordinator would have been more appropriate since letting others know of training courses, showing videos, etc. is most likely what the majority of all Pack Trainers in the BSA do. It is what it is. However, I still say that a trained trainer who registers as a Pack Trainer and who has District approval to conduct training courses should do so. Refusing to use such a resource just because a course is generally run at the district or council level in my opinion is foolish.
Chazz Lees
Cub Scout Promise and Law going away
in Cub Scouts
Posted
As for the younger Scouts being able to learn the Oath and Law, I do not think it will be a promise. My wife and I lead a Girl Scout troop and have done so since my daughter was a Daisy in kindergarten. The Girl Scout Promise is short and sweet like the Cub Scout Promise, but the Girl Scout Law is much more wordy than the Boy Scout Law. We started every weekly meeting with the Promise and Law and most of the Scouts got most of it. When we offered a "I Know The Promise" and "I Know The Law" fun patches to those who could recite them from memory, each Scout learned them within a few months to earn their patches. Many, many years later we still start our weekly Girl Scout meetings with the Promise and Law.