charmoc

So what is to become of Venturing? We now use the same oath, law and sign as Cub and Boy scouts. After reading the new revised awards program I’m under the impression that there will now be more of an expectation to expend a significant amount of energy towards rank advancement.

Well JoBob I’m sorry to hear that. Utilizing such derogatory terms towards the boys is disrespectful and hurtful. Suggest you review the Scout Oath and Law and reflect upon the values we are attempting to install in the scouts themselves.

Continual use of such terms will eventually rub off on the scouts themselves and creates an unending cycle of cynicism and negative feeling towards others who may not agree with you.

Constructive civil discussion on the program can happen without having to lower ourselves to such name calling and disrespect toward these young men who have earned the rank of Eagle Scout

Is it not obvious? “Eagle Scoutâ€Â

I think it behooves us to refrain from referring to Eagle Scouts as coming from “Eagle Mills†or being “Paper Eagles†or whatever other derogatory title we put on them regardless of if we agree on the program they came from or not.

Call ourselves names, yes, but please refrain from calling these outstanding young men anything other than Eagle Scouts.

Many troops I have been associated with provide leadership training, and they have their super performers, the average and the ones who do the minimum if at all. Expectations are identified and communicated, but once 4 or 6 months have passed, and if we are following the GTA, it’s a done deal.

So what makes your troop leadership training work so much better than the rest? What is you recipe for success?

Just be happy for the kid and congratulate him on his achievement. To do anything else causes us to be bitter old goats who start assigning negative labels to the achievement of Eagle and forget why we do what we do.

Under the auspices......Means during a scouting function or event....as mentioned earlier....

 

your out of line again. You should discuss it with your son. Maybe coach him how to approach the PLC about it and maybe help him promote it. But the bottom line is the boys need to decide to do it. If they say no.....then shelve it for a year and then bring it back up.........

 

 

In my opinion it is a far superior award to Eagle. the award means a lad has took his BSA experience and got every last drop of adventure. I would like for my son or a member of my troop to earn it....But they simply are not interested in it.

 

Being short sighted as young men are.

I know of at least one scouters son who will receive the award unearned.

"under the auspicies of the BSA"does not = everything you do as a scout is a scout activity. This award is designed not as a 1 and done or with built in shortcuts, or even that it were to be EASY and everyone in the troop can earn it without trying. I see it as something your long term scouts can earn, when they've already gotten all their mbs and ranks so they focus on taking it up a notch to finish up one of the rocker thingies or the pins. not something your 11 year old scout will get in a year or even two.

Actually, an active, involved scout in a decent troop can easily earn the Camping badge in less than 2 years of membership. Our troop camps 2 nights/month most months, an active boy could easily get his 24 nights in 18 months. The biggest speed bump anyone in our troop encounters is the requirement to earn First Class; we don't ramrod them through First Class, so most of them actually have over 30 nights before I introduce the award to them in their second year. I generally introduce it to the scout as soon as he has 24 nights, because at that point the award's requirements are a good roadmap to what MBs to earn (if he's interested in the different badges) just at the point he's going to start earning MBs.

 

The award also has plenty of "built-in shortcuts"--http://www.scouting.org/scoutsource/BoyScouts/Youth/Awards/NOA.aspx

The adventure badge allows for 1 event to be counted multiple times "A single activity that satisfies multiple items in 3a-g may be counted as separate activities at the discretion of the unit leader. Similarly, a single activity that doubles an item in 3a-d may be counted as two activities at the discretion of the unit leader."

 

So, take backpacking: "A backpacking trip lasting three or more days and covering more than 20 miles without food resupply"

A single backpacking trip of 6 days covering 40 miles w/o resupply would count as 2 adventure credits.

 

But, I would not call the various other means of multiple credit "shortcuts" they're the requirements as written and badge is still difficult to earn and prestigious.

 

Still, the amount of allowances written into the awards make charmoc's "fudging" ludicrous.

 

this has taken a turn to parallel something I run into with the cubs.

Sometimes there will be a requirement to say, visit a library.... either as part of an elective or part of an achievement.

 

Well I'm pretty sure that every boy in the pack has at least a few times been in their school library. Most if not all have visited their local public library too, more times than they can count.

So does that mean that every boy then, will automatically get signed off for that requirement?

.... or must it be an organized thing that is preplanned by the den leader?

 

The answer isn't really clear.

 

For me and my son, I have marched under the assumption that it

a) must have happened during this current scout year

b) if it wasn't something that was formally done as a meeting, then I will be sure to look at the book with my son together, talk about the requirement and what he did, how it meets the requirement (or not), etc....

then I'll sign him off.

 

blw, your "example" is a non sequitur for this specific award, which clearly states in foolproof language that the activity must be done as part of the scouting program, "under the auspices of the BSA." Then again, as charmoc is demonstrating, nothing is foolproof to the sufficiently talented fool.

 

Charmoc, you are wrong, you are wrong, you are wrong. While spouting about "opinions on this forum" and citing the GtA, you continue to post your own incorrect, ignorant opinion which is in direct contradiction to the BSA Advancement Team's official answer to this question. You are a jester.

 

Chris Hunt of the BSA Advancement Team has answered this question in the plainest language for Scouting Magazine: http://blog.scoutingmagazine.org/201...omment-page-1/

"At a Scouting event" and "under the auspices of the BSA" mean the same thing.

 

If you think that going to the swimming pool is "under the auspices of the BSA" then the next time your kid is there by himself, break his arm and file a BSA insurance request if you're so confident you're right.

I feel sorry for those of you (and your scouts) who had to result to such tactics to make your point instead of citing the written documentation from BSA to substitute your arguments.

Unfortunately I have met many of you through the years and have seen the damage you have done to many young men left in your care.

But I see I got under your skin pretty well, which proves my point that if you have to defend your position with such a tirade, they you don’t get it and probably never will.

I know of at least one scouters son who will receive the award unearned.

this has taken a turn to parallel something I run into with the cubs.

Sometimes there will be a requirement to say, visit a library.... either as part of an elective or part of an achievement.

 

Well I'm pretty sure that every boy in the pack has at least a few times been in their school library. Most if not all have visited their local public library too, more times than they can count.

So does that mean that every boy then, will automatically get signed off for that requirement?

.... or must it be an organized thing that is preplanned by the den leader?

 

The answer isn't really clear.

 

For me and my son, I have marched under the assumption that it

a) must have happened during this current scout year

b) if it wasn't something that was formally done as a meeting, then I will be sure to look at the book with my son together, talk about the requirement and what he did, how it meets the requirement (or not), etc....

then I'll sign him off.

 

I'm quite sure many parents have signed off even if he had visited it last year...... without so much as a review or discussion with the boy....

 

I can only imagine that a similar approach would be appropriate here.

Common sense must be engaged......

You guys seem to miss the point. First of all, nothing in the requirement states “at a scouting event.†Might try reading the requirement first, then re-read them again.

Secondly, you obviously do not understand the definition of “auspiceâ€Â. Try looking it up before stating that it means “a scouting event.â€Â

Lastly, if your son want to apply all the hours he has spent at the pool with his scouting buddies, Yes, it counts, but only for the aquatics portion of the badge.

Quit adding to the requirements!

You guys seem to miss the point. First of all, nothing in the requirement states “at a scouting event.†Might try reading the requirement first, then re-read them again.

Secondly, you obviously do not understand the definition of “auspiceâ€Â. Try looking it up before stating that it means “a scouting event.â€Â

Lastly, if your son want to apply all the hours he has spent at the pool with his scouting buddies, Yes, it counts, but only for the aquatics portion of the badge.

Quit adding to the requirements!

KDD. Suggest you get yourself a copy of the advancement guide and read it from cover to cover. There are a lot of opinions on this forum. Often these oppinions blead over to pratices in a scout troop and the past 100 years of BSA experience in putting on a program for the development of scouts go’s out the window.

I’m no expert, so I read the Boy Scout literature and BSA is pretty clear about how things should get done. So no real need to interpret any “legealeseeâ€Â.

You did the right thing and looked up the definition of auspice, and as you can tell it does not mean that all requirements must be done as part of a pre-planned scout activity put on by some adult or as part of a group.

Very few scout troops would be able to have a program that is robust enough for a scout to earn the National Outdoor Medal, and BSA knows that. So individual effort is not only expected, but encouraged. Isn’t that what we are trying to do in developing these boys to become men?

Continue to encourage and coach your son to earn this award, it’s a great long range goal!

While it is an individual award......I cannot be earned by individual effort.......You gotta do it with a group of scouts, which is a group afterall.

 

Old KDD can't take scout son out every saturday morning for a bike ride till he makes the miles for the riding portion of the badge. Now he could take scout son's patrol out every saturday morning for a bike ride.

 

 

There is a difference.

If you cannot back this up, then you are adding to the requirements.

From the BSA’s Advancement Guide paragraph 2.0.0.3 Personal Growth Is Prime Consideration “Though much is done individually at their own paceâ€Â

So if a scout for the purpose of working on a requirement takes a bike ride to the doughnut shop with dad, does it count? YES!

While it is an individual award......I cannot be earned by individual effort.......You gotta do it with a group of scouts, which is a group afterall.

 

Old KDD can't take scout son out every saturday morning for a bike ride till he makes the miles for the riding portion of the badge. Now he could take scout son's patrol out every saturday morning for a bike ride.

 

 

There is a difference.

Noting in the requirements for this award state it has to be earned as a group effort or has to be completed with a group of scouts.

Quit putting in requirements where none exist. This is simple stuff that 11-17 year olds can understand.

We need to avoid overthinking this. Next thing you know we put it in the “too hard to do†category and scouts wont attempt to accomplish this award.

Open up the dictionary and read the definition of “auspiceâ€Â. Then go on line and look at several definitions from other sources. It all boils down to doing something with the support and guidance of the sponsoring organization.

Yes, this is an individual award. Those who think differently need to look at the requirements, and look at them again. You can see earning specific merit badges is part of the requirements and nowhere in any of the scouting literature states that a scout must have two deep leadership and tour permits to earn merit badges.

Quit making this hard.

I am not sure exactly what a venture patrol is????? I think it is Venture Crew that functions as a patrol within a troop......Guessing it would have to be all male.

 

So since I am my sons Scout Master.......If I were a game playing scouter, everytime we go fishing, hiking, camping, backpacking as a family I could count it as under the Auspices.........Naw....

 

I suggest finding a real Troop.

Auspices means “under the support and guidance†of said sponsor, not during a sponsored event. This award is an individual achievement just like earning merit badges where scouts full requirements without having to be on scouting events. So scouting supports your son to be active in the out of doors and provides guidance on how to do this through the Scout handbook, filed book and earning rank and merit badges.

There are very few troops that would be able to provide such a program to its scouts to allow the scout to meet what is required to fill these requirements, so under the guidance and support of the scouting program a scout can fulfill many of these requirement with the blessings of the scouting program and guidance.

Auspices means “under the support and guidance†of said sponsor, not during a sponsored event. This award is an individual achievement just like earning merit badges where scouts full requirements without having to be on scouting events. So scouting supports your son to be active in the out of doors and provides guidance on how to do this through the Scout handbook, filed book and earning rank and merit badges.

There are very few troops that would be able to provide such a program to its scouts to allow the scout to meet what is required to fill these requirements, so under the guidance and support of the scouting program a scout can fulfill many of these requirement with the blessings of the scouting program and guidance.

Ahh, so Mad Max has sat in on over 300 Eagle Board of Reviews which only has given him no more than a perception of what the scouts experience has been. Nothing said about actually experiencing it himself, so no facts, just hearsay, as well as knowing nothing about my background except I Eagles at 15 year old. Opinion is no replacement for facts.

Max you are right, I do need to take a lesson from the Beav, Twocubsdad and yourseslf ; and in the old saying Argue with fools only drags you down to their level and beats you with experience

Thank for reminding me of who I have been arguing with.

EAGLE AT 13? ROCK ON!!!!

So Beav and Twocubdad,

So whats the advice here? Put road blocks in front of each and every scout to slow them down because of your preceded perception that they are not getting enough out of scouting? Whats the magic age? What do they have to do to get the most out of the scouting experience?

What special in site do you have into each and every boys mind that supports your arguments? I Eagled at 15 and have no regrets, did a lot and got a lot out of scouting.

So Beav, you imply a lot in your writing, or are we to take what you write fundamentally but interpret what BSA outlines in the advancement guidance? 

Eagle at 13? ROCK ON!

OK Beav, let me get this straight. A scout who earns Eagle at the age of 13-14 has not benefited fully form the journey but its OK for a scout to get to Life, have most of the Eagle requirements done, get more heavily involved with other outside activities and at 17 years 11 months comes back and finished the requirements for Eagle has benefited more? Or how about the same 13-14 year old who has finished most all Eagle requirements and just stops, hangs around the troop meeting being more of a distraction, or just not showing up due to whatever, and then at 17.11 years crams the last of his requirement had benefited more?

I really doubt it.

The scout who has challenged himself to get to Eagle by 13-14 years old will benefit most. He has learned the lessons, done the requirements, developed a sense of duty to the Oath and Law will benefit the most whether they stay in scouting or not.

A quote of a blog I have been reading;

The strength of youth is passion. Never quench it; always fuel it. Yes its dangerous. But it sure beats lethargy and safety.

Fools preserve the status quo when they corral young leaders.

Eagle at 14? ROCK ON!

This is great news! What a time to celebrate this young mans achievements. So many other challenges lie ahead, and this is a great starting step to be proud of!