CaveEagle

Interesting perspective, but what does your point have to do with the thread subject?

PS: do you really think our defense department refers to their demigraphic statistics before it makes tactical recommendations to out Commander in Chief?

CE

As a scout in the Trans-Atlantic Council while my dad was serving in Germany, we had a German kid that joined out troop. I don't know about Adult leaders, but there are definitely non-US citizen boys that have been registered into BSA troops overseas.

CE

buffalo

Respectfully: ease up on slamming committee members. I serve as our troop's CC because we were pretty deep on SM and ASMs. Also, some of our committee members are just as hard working and more involved than some of our ASMs. To imply that a scouters opinion shouldn't be respected because of their position is pretty short-sighted.

CE

jbro...

Calling your participation a "hobby" seems to trivialize your hard work and dedication to scouting. I do however agree that scouters should cover their basic expenses. This question was recently brought before our troop committee. Our SM proposed that it was not fair that the SM and ASM should pay "out-of-pocket" for their camping and advanced training fees (ie wood badge).

We concidered the Troop covering the cost only for the Adults that were required for each activity, then the question came up about additional leaders that might still want to come. And then what about Adults that either show up late or leave early from the event.

We are trying to encourage our scouts to earn the money to pay there own way through fund raisers. Doesn't it seem contradictory for adults to have there fees covered by the troop.

I bet that most (if not all) scouters receive some direct benifit from the scouting program. I know that we're all here for the boys, but there are a lot of scouters out there that do it because they love it. (hobby or not) I would rather see our troops' funds paying for equipment than paying my way to camp.

CE

jbro...

Calling your participation a "hobby" seems to trivialize your hard work and dedication to scouting. I do however agree that scouters should cover their basic expenses. This question was recently brought before our troop committee. Our SM proposed that it was not fair that the SM and ASM should pay "out-of-pocket" for their camping and advanced training fees (ie wood badge).

We concidered the Troop covering the cost only for the Adults that were required for each activity, then the question came up about additional leaders that might still want to come. And then what about Adults that either show up late or leave early from the event.

We are trying to encourage our scouts to earn the money to pay there own way through fund raisers. Doesn't it seem contradictory for adults to have there fees covered by the troop.

I bet that most (if not all) scouters receive some direct benifit from the scouting program. I know that we're all here for the boys, but there are a lot of scouters out there that do it because they love it. (hobby or not) I would rather see our troops' funds paying for equipment than paying my way to camp.

CE

I agree that the Committee should confer with the SM privatly before the BOR. I have had to kick back a boy recently and called the SM to the table to discuss why the boy was sent to the BOR with obvious holes in his case.

Weather is a position of leadership, Orienteering or a service project, it is the resposability of the committee / BOR to objectively review each boy. I believe we are preparing each boy for his potential Eagle BOR. Eagle BORs are run by the Council in our area and I do not want any of our boys to take any BOR lightly.

CE

This debate can (and will) go back and forth with very litle impact on any of your opinions. I sinceerly doubt that any of you taking the time to write in to this forum would be willing to change your minds no matter what anyone says.

I certainly have my issues with our president, but I support him in most of his positions. Too many of us presume to know and understand all of the issues surrounding our national security. For me it comes down to trust. Despite some mistake that may have been made, I honestly believe that President Bush is trying his best to keep our country safe. Rail all you want about our prosecution of the War on Terrorism, Bush has done exactly what he said he would do in his Post 9/11 address to the country. Bush is TRUSTWORTHY !! Our enemies know it and you know it! Even if you don't like where it leads us.

Know for a consistancy check: How many of you "dubya" critics were complaining about Somalia, or Kosovo?

And as for the "anyone would have been better" crowd: How about Gore? Do you think he would have had the nerve to go into Afganistan? I don't think so. How about Kerry? His only suggestion (after suporting the invasion of Iraq) is to "Internationalize" the effort. Give me a break! The only way to get France there is if we buy them off. It was this type of International influence that enboldened Saddam into resisting multiple UN resolutions.

CE

FrankJ is exactly correct. It due to a sharp-eyed customs agent the terrorist threat in Washington State was stopped. It was the Clinton Administration that let out legal system hanlde the prosecution of the first WTC bombing back in the early 90's. The 9/11/01 attack was clearly a follow up attack to the first one.

CE

Let's not forget that we attacked Iraq because they were in breach of UN resolutions that required THEM to prove that they had no WMD. For 12 years Iraq refused to comply with request to prove they had disarmed. I know of at least two high ranking wanted terrorists that have been captured in Iraq since the fall of Bagdad. A training camp was also found that had a Boeing 747 set up to train for highjacking scenarios.

If Saddam was not directly involved in the 9/11 Attacks against America, it is only because he was not asked!

Exactly which freedoms has Bush violated that has some of you so upset? I travel on comercial airlines nearly every week. I have flown nearly 350,000 miles since the attacks of 9/11. If it was up to me security on airliners would be even tighter.

What really torques me is that the same indeviduals that are whining about what our president has done, are also draging our leadership through congressional "hearings" complaining that not enough was done to prevent the WTC and Pentagon attacks.

I will ask again: what specifically do you have a problem with? and would you be complaining if the previous administration had proposed it?

May God Continue to Bless America

CE

Forget about Air America, has anyone else tried to listen to NPR. This baby is funded by our tax dollars and has set the bar pretty far to the left for any radio network that is trying to attract liberal minded listeners.

Remember to think critically of all political commentary.

CE

This has come up a couple of times in our troop and a formal complaint has just been brought to our committee.

Tenderfoot requirement 10b requires that a scout "show improvement" after paracticing the execises in 10a for 30 days. We have had boys that have not been able to complete a "Full" pull-up after the 30 days. We have had a few boys that took several months of work to get there and one scout that has been unable after a full year. The scout's dad has validated his son's effort and even consulted his doctor regarding the boy's lack of progress.

As our Troop's CC I have expressed disagreement with the SM refusal to let boys progress without a "Full" Pull-Up. If the Boy can demontrate an honest effort for the prescribed 30 days (and shows "improvement" in the other 10a exercises) It does not seem right to hold them back without concideration.

I am certainly in favor of pushing the boys to improve their physical fitness, but for some boys, this seems like more of a demotivator than a reasonable challenge.

I am pretty sure that this requirement has been added since the 80s when I was a scout.

Why is this the only rank where this seems to important?

Is "First Class First Year" only a goal for skinny Boys?

CE

Dr Robert Gates is currently the NESA National President, the President of Texas A&M University, the Director of Central Intelligence under Reagen.

CE

I have been to there twice in the last year. The Rockwell exhibit was awsome! The meuseum seemed to be in devolopment, and a bit dark. I did really enjoy all of the displays, but I thought there would be more. I liked the earlier posted idea of a progression of the uniform with examples from each era displayed.

Don't miss it, if you are in the area.

CE

This discussion has been very helpfull.

As our troops CC, I will relax my opposition to sheath knives. It seems that tool specific safety is the more appropriate issue. I am still not completely sold that 12 year olds should be sporting k-bars on campouts, but I am willing to get over it.

For now, my son seems to be satisfied with his swiss army knife. It is probably only a matter of time before he wants to be similarly "prepared".

CA

My Scouting Background (as a boy) was in Bad Kreuznach Germany (BSA Troop 98). Although Military equipment from canteens to GP-Medium tents was often used, Military / Camoflage pants and jackets was strickly verboten. BSA Scouting in Germany has always required Scouts and Scouters to avoid any possible association with militarism. I will also add that virtually all BSA Troops in the Trans Atlatic Council are Nearby (or within) US Military bases.

Since getting back into Scouting with my son, I have been very surprised to see the BDU / Camo uniforms used with no apparent concern for image. I actually observed a Scout Troop at a Caporee last year where all the boys and an Adult were sporting BDU pants and maroon berets with their Class A shirts. I cannot exagerate how rediculus they looked. I was embarrased for them.

Bottom Line: Some Military / Camo gear is OK if it is consistant with the spirit of Scouting. Do not make the mistake of ignoring the motives of those who think Scouting should be more like the Military.

Cave Eagle

Looks like a pretty good plan. I did not notice any skits planned. Cubs tend to really get into skits and it is a great way to get them used to the idea of speaking to a group.

Good job pushing the outdoor program for Cubs!

Mark

We have a few boys that insist on bringing (and wearing) Hunting / Survival style sheath knives to out Troop activities. I have always understood this to be against BSA policy. I have expressed my concerns to the boys parents with no results. Before I Make a federal case about this I wanted to make sure I am correct. Is this a BSA Policy?(if so where can I find it?) or a Local / Council decision.