Wyobkr

I have the plans for the building.  Such good handwriting in early to mid 1960s.  The lumber and logs were obtained from Grothe Lumber in Walden, CO.  The total cost of logs and lumber, doors, etc. was $11,000.76.  I will try to get these documents scanned and sent to you.

Good Morning Rick,

There is sometimes information available at USFS office and especially as related to the USFS lease.  I just looked at County parcel viewer and found nothing there.  I found some drawings of Chimney Park facilties in council files and will look again soon to see what I can find for you.  Ben

6 minutes ago, AwakeEnergyScouter said:

I don't really understand what that has to do with sexual assault, or with scouting. 

Or are you saying that it's not just a concern about scouts getting sexually harassed or assaulted, it's that and/or a concern that scouts will have sex while scouting?

If the latter, I can report that when the whole patrol sleeps in a single tent there's nothing going on 😂

It becomes a bit like workplace romances, you have to think about what happens when you break up/stop sleeping together. Could make patrol outings very awkward if your ex is in the patrol too! Nobody in my troop ever had a relationship with anyone else in the troop, and at least for some I know that this exactly was the reasoning. 

You're right though, Americans scandalize very easily. If that's a big part of the reason then I will probably never emotionally understand, like I will never emotionally understand the problem with bikinis on beaches. It's hard to get all worked up about something that feels very ordinary.

I attended NYLT course directors conference in 2021 and that was the fall that the tone of the training was decidely different.  New rules regarding formation of patrols, absolutely no female youth to be in same patrol as male youth (remember perhaps that just the year before mixing sexes was encouraged for "diversity").   Had to have minimum number of female youth to have a patrol and if any youth female on course then had to be separate troop with at least 2 female youth staff and a female Scoutmaster and Asst. Scoutmaster.  Why, we asked?  Why the big change?  The answer was 42 reported youth on youth sexual assaults on NYLT courses.  That was just on NYLT courses, not other scouting activities.  Of course the number of reported sexual assaults are generally much lower than total number that occur.  If you want to think about liability with mixed gender units, then ponder how you defend yourself in court with a civil suit for not providing full time, around the clock supervision on outings and meetings.  It was a very somber discussion at the course director's conference and no deviations allowed or you risk not being defended by BSA in court.  No doubt there is also assault occurring in single sex units, and all of the liability is frightening.

Have written few different responses and deleted them.  Conflicted about what to say.  I had an exemplary experience in Scouting as a youth.  Dedicated adults helping, great troop, Jambo, Philmont, and so on.  Volunteered for several years even though I didnt have a youth in the program.  Then was blessed with a son who participated and earned Eagle.  So terribly sad that people who are/were not qualified to lead National and councils have been doing so.  I have seen it first hand.  I had to step away after decades.  Lot of obstacles facing BSA including ever increasing costs to participate and maintain properties that have been negelected.  Then there is the Summit.  It is still hard to fathom how any group of people could have thought they could raise the money they convinced themselves they would get. 

9 hours ago, Eagle1993 said:

Big change in BSA's financials.

17c7637d-c326-4612-9685-10cfeb89a4f0_10280.pdf (omniagentsolutions.com)

They transferred their entire Unrestricted RBT Balance to cash.  So, their cash went to $83.65M; however, their RBT Balance is now at $0.

The RBT is their "Retirement Benefits Trust".  

They also state they have $63M additional in cash set aside to pay JPM as they exit.

Their bankruptcy fees dropped (which is a bit odd).  THey showed a decrease of $5.9M in professional fees.  Total is now $362M.

 

And last year they did big transfer for insurance, etc. as they changed compensation.  The other elephant that doesnt seem to get much attention is payments coming due for Summit.  

On 8/30/2022 at 12:14 PM, 1980Scouter said:

What do you think it costs to operate National for a month? 5 million? Under normal conditions not bankruptcy. 

BSA is require to file monthly operating reports at the end of each month.  There is a page in that report that provides operating costs.  Generally ranges from $8 to $11 million per month.  Was $134 million in all of 2021.  The report provides expenses without bankruptcy costs.  Interesting to see categories with net losses.   Of all things, high adventure has been big loser, but nationwide shut downs impacted that a lot.

On 8/22/2022 at 11:11 AM, ThenNow said:

Question for our faithful and vigilant fee checker: What be the current damages from professional fees billed to the Estate? As always, I am grateful.

/s/ Iman Arithmaticfailure

$198,046,270.81

3 hours ago, MattR said:

There's a thread about uniforms that ended in the gutter over sex (girls in string bikinis tempting boys) and now coed dens is turning into girls being raped. I guess it must be the fault of all the girls. Or at least we should just blame them.

Honestly, can we stop latching on to the least likely scenario that might happen and talk about what has happened? Have coed dens been a problem? If you want to talk about coed troops then what problems have you seen?

The biggest problem I've seen is obnoxious boy says stupid things to girl and, rather than an older scout slapping him up side his head and ending it, it exploded into phone calls and meetings and drama, oh my! But, nobody got raped.

In 2021 I attended NYLT course director's conference in the fal.  It started off completely different than any other of the ones I had been to.  Took just a short time before the questions were asked why it was different.  The staff stated that in 2021 there were 42 complaints filed of youth on youth sexual abuse at NYLT courses.  So that is the number of filed complaints, you know that is only part of the total number.  And this is at the leadership training course where you hope that there is more maturity and composure.  And attendance at NYLT is a fraction of attendance at summer camps.  So, there is the counter to your "nobody got raped".  I decided that I am not willing to participate when the risk of liability is too high.  Personal choice of course.

I spent my high school years on the east side of Maury Pass and enjoyed visiting and camping Goshen Scout Reservation.  Was part of big flood in 1985 when water had to be released from Lake Merriweather at the Reservation due to a large storm and it wiped out local roads and closed schools for weeks, what an adventure.  Wish Goshen would have been more seriously considered for Jambo site since it is much closer to transporation, but there were a lot of factors in the decisions.

This year I visited and helped out with two local camps, Ben Delatour Scout Ranch in northern Colorado, and Camp Buffalo Bill at the east entrance to Yellowstone.  Encouraged by the efforts that are being put forth at both camps by donors and volunteers.  

As of Friday July 8 the total is $185,592,097.15.  That is 80% of the billed hours and all expenses.  Will have to see if the attorneys, etc. get the other 20% at the end of the bankruptcy.

40 minutes ago, qwazse said:

No, the image means we give everyone the tools needed to pick the maximum number of apples so that the cobbler gets in the dutch oven before nightfall. It's about free markets, pure and simple.

It means some people get a lake, others a pool, others travel to a nearby park/college with qualified supervision, but all learn how to forestall death.

I am not sure what country you are living in.  Giving something is not free market.  That is wealth redistribution. 

7 minutes ago, ALongWalk said:

That is some serious cash! Beyond crazy….

The crying shame of it all is that the DOJ says the settlement isn't legal.  What if the judge says go back to the drawing board?

3 minutes ago, qwazse said:

You are describing "true" equality. Not equity.

Equity is: our camp only has a lake. But a qualified supervisor can safely arrange an aquatics area so that scouts can still master aquatics in order to forestall death and -- as a byproduct -- earn aquatics awards.

Take a look at some of the resources that were presented in the references as the new merit badge came out.  One showed a graphic of 3 people trying to pick apples.  The tall one had no box, the shorter had a medium sized box, and the short one had a tall box so they all could get the apple.  That is what counselors were to teach per BSA's own references.  That means everybody gets the lake.  and everybody gets to go to jamboree.

17 hours ago, Tired_Eagle_Feathers said:

 

 

I was extremely dismayed to discover that BSA had created a DEI group, and have considered pulling my son out of Scouting because of it.  Especially when they started pushing the new Eagle-required merit badge.

DEI at face value sounds great.  Who could be against diversity, equity, and inclusion?  The co-opting of these terms has been ingenious.

I believe DEI is sinister.  Diversity inevitably starts having metrics.  Metrics that presuppose some kind of quotas that should be met.  This invariably results in punitive measures taken against whoever is not in the favored class.  It's today's Affirmative Action.  It always ends up discriminating against someone in the misguided attempt to help someone.

Equity is the most sinister.  Equity of what?  Equity of opportunity?  Equity of outcome?  Most usually, "Equity" is code-speak for "equity of outcome".  And if the outcome isn't in favor of the favored group, then a thumb is placed on the appropriate scale to achieve the desired outcome.  This naturally comes at the expense of those groups who don't get the thumb on their scale.  It is decidedly Marxist in the literal sense - "From each according to their ability, to each according to their needs."  In any case, chasing "equity" is a fool's errand.  You can never assure equality of opportunity as there will always be some people who have better parents than others.  And you can never assure equality of outcome because not everyone has equal talent, ability, or ambition.  Attempts to enforce equity always come at someone else's expense.

Inclusion is the only part of DEI that is reasonable.  I have always thought Scouting was inclusive.  With the exception of the religious angle, I always thought of it as one of the most inclusive organizations I have ever known.

If we are to truly have equity, then our neighboring council needs to pay our council so that our camp can have both a lake and a swimming pool.  They have them, so we need them too so that the outcome is all the same.  So shall we ask council x to pony up for council y?  And shall I ask all of the scouts in a unit to contribute to support the less fortunate?  Every one of the scouts should be able to afford the $4,600 to go to jamboree next year if we redistribute the resources, right?  Go explain that one in the new merit badge.  

I started keeping track early and was fascinated by the proposed monthly amounts the various firms were stating they would charge.  Nearly every day I review the dockets including pay applications submitted. Based on 80% recovery (actual billing) as of yesterday the total is $159,052,158.67.  That will be plus or minus a few cents.  

2 hours ago, malraux said:

oh come on. 

I lived through affirmative action already.  Had enough and wont participate again.  Until you have been part of reverse discrimination.....

This is indeed a tough one.  After rough, rough year with covid, as of October 2021 the deline from October 2020 nationwide was 20.48%.  Mergers will continue with 39 councils having youth numbers under 1,000 members and larger councils having large losses.  71 councils had 25% or greater loss over that time frame despite aggressive membership push.  Only 9 councils met recruitment goals.  Scouting has nearly always been a local program and councils with active local program have done better.  But as they consolidate and there is less local program the sense of community will continue to decline and CTD will likely accelerate (circle the drain).  The program has become near impossible to pull off both with Cubs and Scouts with new leaders.  Geez, tough even for experienced Scouters to keep up with all the changes and requirements.  Look at how long the advancement chart is now for Scouts to mark down progress.  Used to be 24 inches long, now it is at least twice as long.  Scouts look at that and sigh, I'll never be able to get it done.  Then you add in the fact (well documented) that each time BSA has tried to make social changes there has been a drastic decline in membership.  Well, here we go again with DEI.  I know that there are folks who like it, but many think that people should acheive and stand on their own two feet, not be given welfare in one form or another.  That may not be a popular statement, but if you look at what Equity means, then my council camp should have a swimming pool just like the council down the road.  Yet their camp still is having trouble with signups for 2022.  Some of us old timers are not happy and we have been the ones to help mentor the younger adults coming into the program and help them navigate the morass that is BSA online systems and program.  This old timer sent the national key 3 a resignation letter and that leaves a little bit bigger gap in meeting the needs of Scouting, but I can't stomach anymore DEI and still abide by the Scout Law.  In the meantime national advancement folks have devalued and diluted the importance of camping and the experience in decision making Scouts get from camping.  That dilution has had a catastrophic effect.  Camps are closing at an alarming rate and there are councils without resident camps now.  With no sense of direction and the disaster of national thinking they can do anything online (like take on chartering) the ship is sinking lower and lower in the water.

I have been tracking the pay applications posted on Omni since it started.  As of today total is $113,019,917.65.   Vast majority are 80% of what can be invoiced.  Interesting to track the BSA monthly reports as well to compare year to year revenue and expenditures.