Cambridgeskip

As I understand it Chapter 11 bankruptcy with you is the equivalent of what we would call "administration" here, effectively it puts the brakes on everything and gives the organisation an opportunity to negotiate a rescue deal with its creditors. Of course that can be a two edged sword but is a long way from liquidation.

Nevertheless this is clearly serious and you have my sympathies. I do hope it doesn't result in BSA losing its crown jewel camp sites, those are the kind of places that once they are gone they are goe.

15 hours ago, qwazse said:

British Ex-Mil with good camera presence who made his name simulating survival situations for TV. His shows are fun to watch.

He's been Scouts UK's Chief Scout for some time. And, yes, he gets a lot of attention. Flys in on helicopter to scout conventions, signs autographs, gives motivational speeches/videos. Projects a likable personality. Genius move on the part of Scouts UK. 

He's a good choice for highlighting what scouts do.

Indeed.

Like it or not we live in an age when image counts for a lot and having a recognisable front man is increasingly important. There are those who don't like him but my scouts certainly do like him.

As Jameson76 said, it’s all about the program, that’s what they come for, and your existing scouts are the best way to do that. Word of mouth is powerful tool!

What you can do to support them in that is give them some tools. If the troop doesn’t have it already give it an internet presence. That doesn’t have to be an all singing all dancing website, it can be as simple as Flickr photo stream or a Facebook page. Make sure that on it are two things

1. Photos of the scouts doing fun stuff. Canoeing, hiking etc. Don’t worry about uniforms or courts of honour, that doesn’t sell. Show off the fun.

2. Include clear and simple contact details.

Your existing scouts can then put that under the nose of their friends and say “look what we did at the weekend”

My Venture Scout leader, her name was Brenda.

She carried on scouting including all the hiking and camping even when she was having chemo for breast cancer. An extraordinary woman 

11 hours ago, MattR said:

So, how important has it been? Unfortunately it's more just a novelty. An exchange would be fun but it's expensive.

Very true.

My troop has an on going program with a troop in Canada. Sadly its only the minority that are able to go on the trips we've done to them and the same goes for the Canadians.

It doesn't mean it's impossible though. We do do other things. We've had skype meet ups, we've planned programs for each other and so on. So you can do it.

We're also lucky in that Cambridge, by it's nature, attracts a lot of foreign visitors both for work and tourism so we've had regular visitors to the troop from overseas who are in the area. Including your goodself of course Matt! Troops in less attractive corners of the country may not be as lucky. 

7 hours ago, Eagle1993 said:

Found this to be interesting 

“Girl Scouts of the USA prohibits events co-sponsored or co- branded with the Boy Scouts.”

“Do not participate in, allow, or promote any co-sponsored or co-branded events or programs that use either Girl Scouts’ name, logo, colors, or likenesses together with Boy Scouts.
This includes long-standing events like Scouting for Food and Pine Car Derbies.”

Yep... screw the hungry if Boy Scouts are involved.  What a load of crap.   My sympathy for GSUSA went down a few notches...

That is truly shocking. It's childish and totally unscout like. I was going to ramble on for a bit but I am somewhat lost for words.

As Shortridge said, you need to speak to the parents about this. You are a volunteer, not their slave. They were warned about your return time and still did't show.

Not convinced by the "scout me in" slogon but the imagery and music work pretty well. Over all I like it!

15 hours ago, TAHAWK said:

Speaking only of Boy Scouting, such a  PL might benefit from training on the role of adults in program.  Being a resource is not inconsistent with youth leadership. 

 

BSA is an entirely other issue, with registered  adult "supervision" every minute being mandated.

I agree, there's nothing wrong with using adults as a resource, in this case though I'm really pleased with her having the confidence to chose her own path and be confident in it even when offered alternatives.

Interesting little update on this.

We made this girl a PL in the end. She’s needed a bit of mentoring, has had the odd hiccup, but generally has grown into the job. Worth remembering that the scout section here is 10-14 so a bit different to you.

Anyway this morning I was able to see why she was the right choice and how far she’s come. She’s been planning a night for the whole troop for later in November which, through no fault of her own, has all fallen through. A case of life happening. With an evening to replan from scratch I’d emailed her a few ideas, just a few ideas to get her thinking. The reply this morning was quite firm, thanks but no thanks, I’ve got my own idea for what to do instead, I’ll get on with it.

Youth led and all that!

Shes doing alright

Being in the UK I won't pretend to know your procedures inside out, I'll leave that to others.

However what these boys did went way over the line. This isn't something that can be treated as a learning experience, it's not the scout who didn't do their chores or who had a falling out with someone that ended in a scuffle or who gave some back chat. This is a group not just of scouts but scouts who are meant to be leaders among their peers, who should be setting the example, who actively ganged up on another scout ending in something that was border line sexual assault.

Whatever the procedure for making that happen the SPL in this case should be gone, out the troop. On most things I see a way back, of making amends and somehow remaining with the troop. Not on this occassion though.

While scouting should be lead by the scouts the adults have a duty to protect the young people in their care and in this instance that should mean the SPL is out.

As for the rest? I'm not sure, I think it depends on the detail of what happened, who was encouraging who and the like. There's not enough detail here to say, certainly I'd be looking to have new PLs elected though.

What you have described is completely intollerable.

8 hours ago, Tired_Eagle_Feathers said:

Just talked to my wife.  Yes, I am a Girl Scout, but our son is not.  But, he can (and does) go if the Troop Leader fills out the paperwork.

For some reason reading this exchange I've found myself humming a certain Monty Python song. All together now "I'm a lumberjack and I'm ok...."

As Ian said for a centrally catered camp online ordering with a delivery to site is a winner every time. Saves a huge amount of space on transport and if you get a friendly delivery driver and a firm enough field they will sometimes come right to your kitchen tent. Did it pretty much every time back in my cub leader days! One campsite I went even had a system with Asda (what you call Walmart), normally for deliveries the driver has to take the crates away straight away. At this site though they'd arranged to leave the crates and when units left site they'd simply leave their empty crates at reception for Asda to pick up later. Brilliant system!

I also agree with JJlash though. For scouts getting them to patrol cater and do their own shopping is always better. It gives a sense of independence and they have to muddle through somehow even if they do end up with Tesco Value beans. Which are truly awful.

43 minutes ago, NJCubScouter said:

Not to me.  And we'll take your word on their gender. 

The one on the left and one on the right in better weather!

If you're looking for cubs outside the USA I would suggest a couple of other forums

Escouts is a UK based forum very similar to this one.

1st Facebook Scout Group is Facebook based with a heavy UK presence but also a decent showing of Australian, Pakistani and various other nationality scouts. Beware of the trolls though.

3 hours ago, Eagledad said:

Yep, and it supports my deepest concerns of inexperienced adults leading the program. I can't see it going any direction other than Advancement based Eagle Mill camping programs. 

Barry

Barry

I hope you don't mind, but a question for you. I've seen you make this point numerous times and something I'm not sure of is, how is BSA ever meant to expand if fresh blood, who by their nature are likely to be inexperienced in terms of scouting, doesn't come into the organisation? While we disagree on coed scouting I have broadly been able to follow and indeed respect many of your arguments, it's just this one pont that leaves me a bit confused!

1 hour ago, dkurtenbach said:

You're fortunate it was just a parent not getting it.  All too often, it is an adult leader who isn't getting it.

Indeed. Once upon a time that leader was me!

I used to run cubs, then about 9 years ago I switched to scouts. It was a steep learning curve for me as I learned to cut the apron strings and let them get on with it. I understand how it can be difficult to sit back and watch the kids making a hash of something and not intervene.

I've learned over time to let them take more and more of the responsibility and its worked better as time as gone past.

It was interesting to see the thread about misconceptions as I had deliberately logged on to post something.

yesterday I spent 40 minutes on the phone and my Group Scout Leader (my manager, don’t think you have an equivalent) had spent 2 hours on the phone with the mum of a scout who was having a bit of a moan.

She had various things to say but they all stemmed from the fact that her daughter has not made PL or APL yet. Her daughter is disappointed. She’s not the first and won’t be the last and in herself is not a problem. The problem is that her mum does not accept how scouts operates.

Both myself and the GSL have tried explaining that our job is not to make all the decisions of the scouts for them. We advise them, we explain what they should consider, we will give our opinion if asked. If there is a safety or discipline issue or other very good reason to do so we will over ride youth decisions.

What we won’t do is simply over rule them because they chose differently to what we would have chosen.

In this case this scout would make a perfectly good APL. She’s enthusiastic, well behaved, polite etc. And yes she could probably do a better job than at least two of my current crop of APLs.

Fact remains though that at this stage the PLC chose them and not her. 

And mum does not accept that.

Ive explained to mum that’s if I over rule every decision I disagree with there’s no point having PLs or a PLC as they wouldn’t be making decisions, it would just be me demanding that they do it my way. What would be the point?

And Mum does not accept that.

I know that BSA put more emphasis than we do on the youth led process. Do you ever get problems with parents wanting you to over rule the PLC? How do you tend to handle it?

They don’t understand that the adults are there to, as much as possible, facilitate the scouts in making their own decisions and leading and running the program as much as they can. They seem to think that we are there to do everything!

38 minutes ago, ianwilkins said:

and also, in my experience, while "that boys and girls behave differently, learn, differently, and develop differently" is true, so is it true that boys behave differently learn differently, and develop differently. I mean, in Explorers in the UK the age range is 14-18, we've got some boys at the start that haven't reached puberty some by the end are going steady, and everything in between, some are bright kids that need telling once, some that need telling, showing, telling again, showing again, showing again a different way, etc etc. And the girls are the same. I.e. we, both leaders from boys only sections, and co-ed, have always had to cope with a range of abilities, personalities, intelligence, etc etc. 

This summer I had 42 Explorer scouts on camp from four different units. We split them into patrols. The eldest were the PLs, some were boys, some were girls, the rest of the patrol was a mix of boys and girls. When we went to the beach, they all went for a swim. When we went climbing, they all gave it their all, to the best of their abilities, some of the smaller boys and girls struggled, then again some didn't, a factor of arm strength really, but they all supported each other. They weren't doing a girls climb and a boys climb. No need. When they emptied and cleaned the cattle trough, at one point there were 5 kids in there bathing, three girls at one end, two boys at the other, they managed that all by themselves without leader help. 

Going co-ed isn't the bogeyman it's being made out to be in my opinion, other things like the poor public image of scouting, changing and limiting the programme, losing the patrol method are.

I run scouts, 10-14 year olds, so the age group behind Ian's lot.

Interestingly my observation has always been the biggest gap in maturity sits at the Cub-Scout move up age. By the time they move to explorers the boys have typically caught up, both physically and mentally.

11 minutes ago, gblotter said:

So now that boys are the segment of society that is falling behind, how bad must it get before we get some recognition of their unique needs? How far ahead must girls be before boys become deserving of specialized attention and tailored programs?

There are specifically male issues out there no doubt. Mental health is a big one, attainment at school is another. Fact remains though that men still dominate in most areas of life. I can't speak for the USA but here there are 208 women in Parliament out of 650. And that is the most it has ever been! 7 out of the FTSE 100 companies have women as CEOs. We may have a female Prime Minister but she is only the second in history. We have never had a woman as Chancellor of the Exchequer, had only one as Foreign Secretary (she lasted about a year), and one Home Secretary (she's now PM)

As Ian says promoting opportunities for girls and women to do what men have historically done is not doing boys down but giving them competition.

That is a separate issue to ensuring that they attain good grades in school and get good mental health provision.

21 minutes ago, Saltface said:

The Order of Clarence Chugwater.

Now that would make a great title for a children's book!

So... after I was made redundant back in November I started writing a book. Now this book is a children's book set in a scout troop. I won't give too much away but the short version of the story is teenager gets (outrageously unfairly) into trouble at school for standing up to the school bully. Parents pull her out of scout summer camp as punishment. Her friends decide it is grossly unfair and help her stowaway anyway. Along the way they pull some outrageous stunts. Some of which are a touch dangerous, some of which are border line illegal...

Anyway having finished it I am now looking for an agent and a publisher.

Before that I thought it might be a good idea to bounce this off UK HQ and make sure I wasn't going to upset anybody or cause any problem with copyright.

They have come back and said.... given the story line please don't use any specifc scout terms. Given what the kids get up to I have some sympathy so this post is NOT a winge about our HQ. More a case of getting some ideas. I needs some replacement terms for the terms I've used. I plan on getting my scouts to help me as well. Basically any ideas for replacement terms for the terms below. I've put a similar post on the UK equivalent of this esteemed forum but thought that getting some ideas of folks with a bit more distance might be quite useful....

Beaver (6-8 year olds)
Cub (8-10 year olds)
Scout (10-14 year olds)
Explorer (14-18 year olds)
Service Crew (What we call campsite volunteer staff)
Patrol
Patrol Leader
Assistant Patrol Leader
Troop
Unit
Bronze Cross (one of our scout gallantry awards)

Probably goes without saying they shouldn't be terms used by other organisations either! eg Navigators, Pathfinders etc...

Thanks in advance, looking forward to some ideas 

10 minutes ago, Jameson76 said:

Is that like the Pantomime horse from Monty Python?  Literally everything I know about the British I learned from Monty Python episodes.  

 

Well indeed there is normally a panto horse or cow (I was the back end of the cow in a school production of Jack and the Beanstalk! I was later bestman at the wedding of the front end of the cow. True story!) but there is more to it than that. It is normally two hours of pure slapstick silliness based on a classic children's story. Our local panto this year is Alladin. Cinderella and Jack and The Bean Stalk are also both common ones. The main male character is always played by a woman and the main female by a man. A character called Buttons (unlucky in love nice guy who gets friend zoned by the girl) is normally shoe horned into whatever story it is. There's plenty of "he's behind you" and "oh yes he is/oh no he isn't" and general audience participation. The very best ones normally get some satire in there as well. Frankly the script writers must be spoiled for choice this year with the amount of world wide nonsense to satirise!

Have a look on Youtube, there's loads to get an idea of.