SteveMM

20 minutes ago, HashTagScouts said:

Our legacy council used to the say the same, but in reality only the completed Eagle application went to National- the project binder stayed at the council office until the credentials came back from National, and then the binder with credentials went to the unit to present to the Eagle.  Your council is likely doing similar, but i would reach out to your district advancement coordinator to confirm.

I actually got confirmation at our meeting last night.  You're right.  The binder does NOT go to national but rather stays with the council.  Once national sends the credentials, Scouts get their binders back.  The only issue right now is that it apparently is taking national forever to get credentials back to Scouts.  Our Scoutmaster said he JUST heard back from national on a Scout who had his EBoR in late June!  I'm hoping my son's doesn't take that long, but just to be sure, when we schedule his ECoH it will probably be in early October.

This is one I'm somewhat wrestling with as well.  My son's ECoH is coming up in six or seven weeks.  I'm a committee member, and I come to nearly every meeting.  Generally I wear a class B, but I do don the class A for Courts of Honor and when we go on outings and campouts.  Because of that, I'll probably wear my class A at my son's ECoH, since that's what I normally wear to Courts of Honor.

1 minute ago, Eagle94-A1 said:

SWMBO = She Who Must Be Obeyed, aka the wife.  The project has gotten to her. Funny thing is, she has done little actual work on the project. Mostly it's been encouraging him and getting answers when needed. I've done the same thing, but also was one of the adults supervising the project.

 

It's funny how some moms react to this stuff.  My wife deals with our daughter's Girl Scouts career, and mostly leaves Boy Scouts to me.  But, on the day of our son's project, she was very, very concerned.  She pulled me aside and said, "I think you should have a talk with (our son) because he doesn't seem to be doing much work.  He's just walking around."  I observed him for a few minutes and reported back to the boss that he had workers spread out over 3-5 acres (no one really knows the size of the area) and was walking from spot to spot managing them, while also doing some of the work.  She didn't really know his role in the whole thing, and she thought he was just being lazy.

Completely unrelated side note: The one other Scout doing his EBoR last night is 13 years old, and is in a troop that meets at an LDS church.  I really wondered if he rushed to Eagle a bit because of LDS severing their ties with Scouts BSA.  No way of knowing, but it would make sense.  With that said, they were VERY impressed with his project.  He collected 2,000 donated books for an organization and built a bookshelf to house them.  

16 minutes ago, qwazse said:

Congratulations! Nothing like knowing that your son can command the respect of your peers!

The workbook should come back to your son. I can't imagine any council HQ wanting to keep it. Just ask them when he'll get it back.

I think they said it would be sent to the national office in Texas for review, but not returned.  It's entirely possible I misunderstood, though.  My thought was that if they didn't return Scout binders, then they'd run out of room to store them eventually and would end up destroying them.  This is why I wondered if I misunderstood.

Let's get the bragging out of the way: My son completed his Eagle BoR last night!  They talked with him for at least 45 minutes, which was longer than I expected.  He said he had an answer for everything, including the standard, "Which of the points of the Scout Law would you eliminate?" question.  He said he would eliminate "clean" because, really, have you seen Boy Scouts at summer camp?  That got a round of laughter that I actually heard from across the hall.

Needless to say, I couldn't be more proud of the boy if I tried.

Now, the question: They kept his Eagle Project binder, and said it would be sent to the national office.  I think I understood that he would NOT get that back.  Is that correct?  At our troop's Eagle Courts of Honor, it's traditional to lay out mementos from the Scout's "career" on a table, along with information about the project.  It's usually in a binder.  Am I to assume that they must have just printed out new copies of the proposal and application to make a new binder?

4 hours ago, Harumph said:

Just got back from Philmont on 7/12/2019. 

You were there at the same time as my son's group!

15 hours ago, Eagle94-A1 said:

On a side note, one of the traditions in my troop growing up was "roasting" the Eagle by telling a humourous story from his younger days. Then moving on to how he has grown and matured over the years. We got to pick who was going to roast us, and I hope my son picks me when the time comes.

That's a great tradition.  We do something similar.  After all of the accolades about how great the new Eagle is, the Scoutmaster asks if anyone wants to tell a story about him.  This usually turns into a gentle roast.

3 minutes ago, Saltface said:

Or just shun.

That's our troop.  We stopped all popcorn sales several years ago.  It was a waste of time.

21 minutes ago, Eagle94-A1 said:

Multiply it by 3. While he got the hospital's approval, he got it at the managerial level. Since he is applying for a grant from a foundation, he had to fill out two separate sets of paperwork: foundation's paperwork AND hospital paperwork at the senior leadership level, i.e. a VP and CEO has to approve.

He isn't even focusing on the actual Eagle Application at this time. He just wants the Eagle project paperwork over and done with.

Wow ... yeah, that adds several levels.  It's a pain in the rear, but like Eagledad said, it's a good learning process.  God knows he'll have paperwork to fill out later in life.

Our troop's best fundraiser is selling mulch in the early spring.  We found a supplier that sells us several pallets.  We mark them up, sell them, and deliver them.  People love getting their mulch delivered to them.  ALL of the profits go into the boys' Scout accounts.

1 hour ago, Eagle94-A1 said:

Well the bane of the Eagle Project has hit Oldest: PAPERWORK.

It really is awful.  It never seems to end.  My son did his project in May, and hoped to get his EBoR before his group left for Philmont in early July.  That was a pipe dream.

25 minutes ago, walk in the woods said:

So how does adult supervision prevent the lawsuit?  You're an adult, scouts are hiking in front of you, one stumbles and breaks his leg.  If a parent is litigious are they not going to sue anyway?

I'm not a lawyer and I didn't stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night, but I'm thinking that if BSA can prove that it made all reasonable attempts to create a "safe" atmosphere, then the lawsuit would be dismissed.  However, with an adult not present, that goes out the window because the litigious types would see that as not a safe atmosphere.

3 hours ago, walk in the woods said:

The world is safer now than it ever has been yet youth serving organizations, and society in general, are caught up in a desperate race away from living to just existing in safe spaces.  As Mike Rowe suggested in his blog, the world needs BSA now more than ever.  Unfortunately, we've accepted the incorrect argument that kids are incapable of doing anything without adult supervision.

The larger reason for this is the litigiousness of modern society, and has little to do with safety.  While I think many kids would benefit from a well-designed program during which they go out in the woods without direct adult supervision, it would only take one broken leg before the lawsuits start.  

On 7/23/2019 at 8:42 PM, David CO said:

We required it.

I don't have any recollection of ever taking a shower at summer camp when I was a Scout.  We swam every day in the lake, and I considered that enough.  When my son went to his first camp, I joined the troop for the last two nights.  I'm a Committee Member and enjoy camp, but can't take a full week away from work.  When I arrived on Thursday, he was smudged with dirt and his clothes and bedding smelled just awful.  In camps since then, he's increased the amount he showers every year.  Last year I think he took a shower just about every night.

With all of that said, and back to the original point, our council's camp has individual shower stalls, which makes the transition over to adding girls a lot easier.  We went to our neighboring council's camp a couple of years ago, and the only showers available were communal showers at the pool.  They were not used very often.

10 minutes ago, David CO said:

t doesn't surprise me that your Y.M.C.A. had already changed its policy by the mid 70's.  What I find surprising is that they had changed their attitudes so abruptly that, just 10 years later, a boy like yourself would have been completely unaware of the fact that it was once a commonly accepted practice. 

I wouldn't take my experience as much of an indicator.  We only lived there for two years (starting when I was five years old) and I never went to another YMCA again because there wasn't one near where we lived after that.

10 minutes ago, perdidochas said:

My late Dad, and my father-in-law (both in their 80s) talked about this.  

It must have been way before my time.  I took swim lessons at a YMCA in Rhode Island in the mid 70s and we definitely wore clothes.

ETA: After digging into that article I posted (duh) I realized the practice stopped in the early 1960s.

15 hours ago, David CO said:

I guess it all depends on when and where you grow up.  When I was a kid, we still had nude swimming at the YMCA.  Didn't seem strange to me at the time, since it had always been done that way.  

Okay, I thought this was a joke or a typo, but then I did a quick search, and found this: https://www.vocativ.com/culture/fun/fairly-recently-ymca-actually-required-swimmers-nude/index.html

So, I learned something.  Wow.

23 hours ago, HashTagScouts said:

We used to require the Scout to have a face-to-face meeting with the District Advancement Chair to discuss their project before he signed on it, but now it is handled by email.  My son was under the previous requirement, and I liked it.  It's a valuable life skill we should want youth to develop, how to present and I feel it is good prep for their EBOR. 

We do still require the letters be written by the references, and I would not want that to go away- both for the same reason as above about having to talk to others, but also because it gives the Board members an idea about the Scout and who they are, aside from just what is on their Eagle application.

Our Council rep requires the boys come to him for a face-to-face meeting to discuss their proposed project as well.  I liked it, even though the guy wanted to meet at his house, which is 30 minutes from ours.  He had a lot of good advice for my son that he probably wouldn't have typed out in an email.

I get what you're saying about having to do the face-to-face recommendation requests.  I feel like the current generation is lacking in face-to-face skills, and anything that can be done to help that is a good thing.  However, I do prefer our council follow the rules that are laid out by BSA.  Scouting.org says the Scout should never even *touch* the recommendation letter, let alone hand deliver it to the council.

At the risk of reiterating what's already been posted, I'll just say don't worry about the ranks.  Just enjoy Scouting and stay as active as you can.  The ranks will come.  This shouldn't be causing as much stress as it is.  I'm going to assume that you didn't join Scouting just to get your Eagle.  Remind yourself why you did join it.

2 minutes ago, Eagle94-A1 said:

Yes it does. Especially hearing some of the comments from folks. I know some may say my district is "adding requirements" by having the Scout present the proposal to the entire advancement committee, but I like it because it gives everyone an understanding of what is being proposed, and offers ideas the Scout may not have thought about. There were indeed some issues that the committee brought up that he did encounter. Anyway, while a parent or SM is allowed to go in with them at the proposal stage, oldest opted to go solo. Apparently it has been a few years since a Scout presented a proposal without a parent or Scouter with them,  and they were impressed.  Got a lot of positive feedback on him.

I don't mind that "requirement" at all.  It doesn't seem too out of line.  Our district does the recommendation portion of it completely wrong.  The requirements say the Scout has to provide names of people who are willing to provide a recommendation.  Our district requires the Scout to go out and get written recommendations in sealed envelopes, then hand them to the district representative several weeks before his EBoR.  It's ponderous, really, and rather annoying because it flies directly in the face of the guidelines on Scouting.org.  Word is they're going to stop doing it that way soon.

Congrats to him, and that's a great project!  My son has his EBoR a week from today, and I couldn't be more proud of him if I tried. 

Every time I hear about a Scout's Eagle Project, it reminds me that there is no one type.  Every one is vastly different.  My son's was doing trail clean up and definition (lining the edges of the trails with downed branches) plus mulching of nine stations on a ropes course at a local religious summer camp.  It doesn't sound like a tough project, but the course was spread out over several acres, so management of the work was very hard.  The course had gotten so overgrown that you couldn't tell where the trail was anymore. 

Our troop did the Country Meats fundraiser and it went quite well.  They were a fairly easy product to sell and were far better than the overpriced popcorn.  It also turned out that all of us leaders ended up eating our fair share during meetings. 😀

10 minutes ago, fred8033 said:

That's different.  A scout is answerable to having the requirements reviewed and tested.  The signature in the book indicates it's been tested and judged worthy.  It's not the BORs place to re-evaluate or retest or rejudge if a scout met the requirement.  

While I wouldn't ask a Scout to demonstrate how to tie knots during a BoR, the example I gave (knowing the Oath and Law) is a piece of core Scout knowledge.  It seems to me (and perhaps I'm dead wrong here) that while the BoR should not be testing a Scout, it can identify that a Scout hasn't actually learned basic things that they should know.  It would be the same to me as if you asked a First Class candidate where they camped and they said they didn't, even though the camping nights had been signed off.

18 minutes ago, qwazse said:

I would not like a board to suspend its review because someone forgot "A scout is". Any board that did so would have to convince me that the candidate actually did not believe that a decent scout would be any of those 12 points.

But, if a Scout can't remember all of the things "A Scout is" then how can he live by them?