mrjohns2

4 minutes ago, RememberSchiff said:

So, we walk away from our Congressional Charter?

I have always assumed we could easily be “BSA” dba “What Ever Inc”. Businesses do it all the time. 

I too don’t want Scouts to devolve into “Family Camping”. I am working on a “white paper” on what I view Family Scouting as; it is NOT family camping. I think National didn’t really describe it other than “now girls can join, so that means the whole family.” Read or ignore our approach to Family Scouting below.

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I give full credit to our COR who has had the vision. I have been working on “documenting” it.

Chartered Org charters at least: Family Pack (boys and girls), Boy Troop, and Girl Troop. Need to try to have Lions den, as that opens the age span. To me, to us, this is Family Scouting. For Scouts Age 5-18, boy or girl, we have you covered and coordinated.

• Need a location that fits the entire org. We have a School with a full gym, full cafeteria, 7 classrooms, and a community room that we are able to use. This is hard, but key.
• Dens meet in those 7 classrooms. They meet in the gym for a pack meeting. The large boy troop meets in the cafeteria and our girl troop meets in the community room.
• Meetings start and end at the same time for all units. Ours are from 6:30-8pm every Tuesday.
• Single policy book – how are dues, fundraising, etc. are done need to be the same across all units.
• Coordinated schedule across all units with no collisions. Hike for cubs can’t be on the same time as a campout for the Scout units.
• For the Scout units, though, camp the same weekends. Other than “special events out of our control”, camp the same weekend each month. For us, it is the second weekend. Not necessarily the same places, but same weekends. That way families can say “lets go to grandma’s the 3^rd weekend, but we are free” instead of “man, we never have a free weekend, let’s drop something”.
• We depart for the campout at the same time, from the same place (School parking lot) so that a family drops both son and daughter off at the same place, same time
• We go to camp the same week, to the same camp, this year, in different camp sites due to growth
• We don’t share committees, but I assume sharing committees between the boy and girl unit would make this easier
• Even with this, we do not run a co-ed Troop setup. Our troops meet in separate rooms and only get together when it makes sense, which has been rare. We more often share a resource back and forth between the two (say, a cold weather experienced scout to speak with the other troop)
• This “solves” the Webelos to Scout transition. Same meeting, same time, same people in the building. Just move to a different room.
• We have a “Winter Camp” at one of our Scout camps that have these cool themed buildings. We rent all 3 and all 3 units attend. Not families (besides for Lions/Tigers and they are day only, I think)
• I am trying to get going an August “Family Campout”. I find this useful if people want siblings or parents that are leaders to go on a campout, we can say “great, we do that once a year in August”. The boy troop has had a hard time getting attendance at an August campout in the past, this allows it to be loose, families do their own food, and we do no programming. All other campouts are NOT family campouts. This is a Webelos / Troop activity that happens in January just before crossover. We have the AOLs work with their troop this weekend.
• We do a full COR conservation service project at a conservancy each year. This allows for projects for all age levels. It allows us to count as a Webelos / Scout activity.
• I should do a list of negatives, but it is hard to do Den Chiefs. It is hard for the SM of the boy troop to ever camp with his daughter's troop.

Based on what cburkhardt posted before, I called in (you also did a good job summarizing). I wonder about the OA going to 21 if the other groups don’t. Not that OA is a stand alone group. 

One could say that National is sized for an organization that no longer exists. 
 

As part of this downsizing, I would be ruthless and cut most things that don’t pay their own way with dues and donations. Areas to look at would be Exploring and STEMScouts.  Does Sea Scouting need to be rolled back into Venturing?

The Regional and Area structure do seem over sized as well. 
 

You left out the one IT and pain in the butt fix they mentioned “streamlines recharter and payment method”. Man! Maybe we could go to all electronic apps? For all positions, additions, transfers, and cross overs? 

Cburkhardt - Thank you so much for the time you took to type this all up. It is very helpful. I believe that transparency would help so much. Transparency doesn't mean giving "control" to the masses, but it would help explain direction and choices. They could always use a open / closed session concept and only take "public comment" when they choose to. I think it would help with buy in and even allow those that can, to help. It boggles my mind that committees such as the one you list aren't on a webpage, nor are all of the other committees (advancement, what ever camping is called, etc). If one was to look for a model of transparency, one of the best seems to be the commissioners. They have out the who and what and how to provide feedback. They have email addresses of the key assistant national commissioners. Their transparency at all levels would help me and my buy in. What I am saying here goes for councils as well. Nowhere (national or local) are all of the committees listed, let alone any names or contact info or structure. Thank you, again!

It hasn’t been mandated. The whole point of the IA2 was to allow units like yours to keep doing what was worked for them. Scoutbook works well for us, but if something is working well for you, no reason to stop. 

Is there any point going to this type of meeting if one isn’t on one of the national committees? Are these really just for people who are “in the know” or on a committee?

11 hours ago, jjlash said:

Without giving anything away, the activities include: cooking (crews prepare their own dinners), challenge events (low COPE), wilderness first aid scenarios, realistic first aid (moulage), geocaching challenge, search and rescue scenarios.  Woven into these is a lot of West Virginia history and several practical skills like LNT, UTM and using radios in a field exercise.  There is a backpacking overnight, a conservation project and a rededication to Scouting ceremony.

 

I think this is what people are looking for when they ask for a syllabus. Like for a college course. 2-3 pages, maybe double sided, with an outline. A syllabus is not a staff manual or even student book.  If too much is given away by a syllabus, I would question the depth of the training. For the cost and the time investment, it is funny that they don’t have a bit more than a glossy brochure and a “trust is, it is good” approach. 

There was a faq or a Brian on Scouting asking about adirondack trail shelters being accommodations and not using the tent rule. I would consider a yurt being more cabin like than an adirondack. 

It is crazy how opaque both councils are and national. They know how many LDS units and Scouts they had. They could easily release for a few years adjusted and unadjusted numbers so that we could know the LDS impact and the girl impact. They are so afraid, they try to keep everyone in the dark. I work for a large fortune 50 multinational. It is night and day about transparency. For example, our council is on a conditional charter. What were the issues? What is the plan? They are not saying anything beyond they need more funds and more scouts. The Scout executive decided to “pursue other interests”. That info was shared more than a month after he began perusing the other interests. At work, they would have an all hands at the moment a press release would be out. We would then get a copy of the action plan and scorecard on how we need to improve. 

9 hours ago, skeptic said:

And here lies the proverbial rub.  We could have a girl patrol in our unit, one that would allow us to offer the program to a small group and hopefully grow from there.  But we do not have the resources to have a separate unit, nor at the moment the minimum 5 to start it. 

 

Less than 5 isn’t much of a patrol either. 

14 hours ago, Cburkhardt said:

UPDATE.  WSJ gives good account of a Monday call of the Council Scout Executives and their council lawyers.  Ch. 11 expected to be filed for national without councils.

I subscribed just for the article. It is clear now why they secured the loan with Philmont. It is considered an encumbered asset and not eligible for disbursement during bankruptcy. It is their strategy to protect it. The summit was already encumbered. :-)

I like the idea of ditching off non-core, non-productive efforts. STEM Scouts, maybe Explorer groups for those less than 13, and learning for life. If those groups aren’t “more than paying for themselves”, stop them. 

Is NESA or alumni groups paying for themselves? If not, stop them.

 Focus on the core. 

Why would it replace DOT forms? It would be crazy to think otherwise. What I am saying is that it is a stand lone form.  No replacements, and as the form says, all participants require the form.  Other activities may require other forms. DOT forms don't provide the hold harmless statements, media release statements, BMI max, and other parts of the BSA forms.  The DOT forms don't have this. Your camp health officers must much less rigorous than ours. 

From the form "All participants in all Scouting activities complete Part A and Part B. Give the completed forms to your unit leader. This applies to all activities, day camps, local tours, and weekend camping trips less than 72 hours. Update at least annually. Part A is an informed consent, release agreement, and authorization that needs to be signed by every participant (or a parent and/or legal guardian for all youth under 18). Part B is general information and a health history."

On 12/12/2019 at 12:02 PM, le Voyageur said:

Since our program involves a considerable amount of shooting (muzzle loaders) which parents are fully aware of, we don't have that problem with parental permission. However, it's up to the Scout to decide as to whether or not to shoot.   

As for the medical,  I've never used the BSA med form, but will provide a copy of my DoT med card when asked since it's more comprehensive as it includes drug testing...

Our camps and other events require the BSA medical form. You can't provide another in place of it. 

On 12/16/2019 at 9:18 PM, T2Eagle said:

I have long thought that any organization where virtually everyone in it has been in that organization and that organization alone since they were in their twenties is going to be weaker as a result.  Every organization needs folks who have seen other challenges and other solutions, been exposed to different ideas, had to design and implement different organizational schema..  The BSA model's for selection of leaders is stuck in the seventies.  There's probably no organization of comparable size that uses this model.

Procter & Gamble, a 185 year plus Fortune 50 company, has always promoted from within.  Still does. Some say it is outdated, and some don't.

On 7/15/2019 at 7:39 AM, mrkstvns said:

Boy Scouts do service projects.

I’ve even seen the girls in Scouts BSA do projects! 

1 hour ago, Sentinel947 said:

Are you arguing that troop trailers are not stolen, given that there are articles monthly here indicating otherwise? 

Yes, tools are higher margin and better for thieves, but Scout trailers are typically lightly defended and can be profitable to sell the contents. 

I’ve seen articles; I can’t say I have seen 12 in the last year, let alone more than one per month as you indicate.

I can very little in a scout trailer that could be sold for ready cash (cash in days) beyond the trailer itself. That may be what thieves are after. I bet you wouldn’t get much if you sold the contents of a trailer at a garage sale, even less if it was know to be stolen and you wanted it sold fast.

I’m not at all saying they aren’t stolen, what I am saying is that I think as good of an argument can be made for decorating your trailer as not. 

2 hours ago, Sentinel947 said:

Pawn shop, ebay. Remember, their overhead is free. If they sell sleeping bags and tents for $10 each, they've made a profit. As for the trailer..... I'm not so sure. 

Sure, plenty of pawn shops want our junk. Dirty tents and cook gear over welders, wrenches, and power tools. Hummmm.... I think a troop is better off labeling it “camping junk” and the criminals move on. 

On 7/25/2019 at 9:44 AM, Chadamus said:

Agreed. While the fancy paint jobs, decals, emblems, etc can be great advertisement for your Troop or Pack, you're also advertising your goods to thieves.

Really? I think troop decals lesson the chance of theft. What criminal can turn troop gear into cash vs construction tools?

4 hours ago, TMSM said:

 3. You actually are following the new rules that mandate 2 adults (I don't)

You had me until point 3. Why do you think it is ok to not follow the mandated rules? 

Is is true that truthful isn’t listed since Scouts were used as spies during the African campaign and good spies aren’t truthful? 

Scouts BSA's welcoming of girls has brought me back into the fold after 24 years out.  This eagle scout was required to have a fire bucket on each side of a tent in addition to the stenciled "no flames in tents!" on the rain fly.  Should we buy / obtain from recycling small 1/2 gallon buckets for this purpose and make the stencils? Or is this not done any longer?

Do people still do this?  I see no mention of this in the handbook.

I think you letter is fine. You focus on examples of letting youth leaders lead.

I do think you place a heavy emphasis on this “CAN DO” concept be “have done”. I do not believe that language or focus is part of the official program. If so, can you point to a reference?

Just now, Saltface said:

Is this it?

http://www.799girlstroop.com/images/Scouts BSA Program Information and FAQ.pdf

Thanks, but no, that is from a particular council.  The one I am looking for was from national.  It was the source document for the link you provided. 

I am looking for a Scouts BSA FAQ posted on the scouting.org website dated 9/14/18.  It was called "Scouts BSA Program Information FAQ document dated September 14, 2018".  I am trying to pull together the national information, and I can't find this one.   Can anyone help me out?

Thanks,

Matt