5thGenTexan

Well.....  After the Troop Committee Meeting where I was yelled at for an hour and half telling me how bad of a leader I was I did cut ties cold turkey.  The next day I woke up in the middle of the night throwing up most of the night and began to experience abdominal pain.  This lasted for the better part of the next month and I kinda developed a "screw it" attitude because I was still very angry and hurt.  Probably lost 40 - 45 pounds since December.  I went to the ER last week because I wasnt getting better.  They thought I had a small bowel obstruction.  Stayed in the hospital two days.  I am in firm belief that the stress I allowed myself to endure due to crummy adult leaders has been a big contributing factor.  I was very angry and frustrated all the time at meetings and away even at home.  And I am talking like since Covid started.  

My son has lost interest in Scouts and does not go to meetings any longer.  My daughter is 15 and her mind is on other things.  I know for a fact I will not be rechartering at the end of the year and I doubt they will either.  For me, I am going to start finding something I really want to do with MY time and concentrate on that.  Going to start having lunches with some of the adults I met in Scouts that I do enjoy being around.  

I have enjoyed and appreciate the support and help of this community!!!  I just have reached the point where Scouting has no draw or interest for me any longer.

Committee ganged up on me in person at this week's Committee Meeting.

I found out our previous CO, a Methodist Church didn't want the Pack playing on the preschool playground any more because they were tearing stuff up AND a neighbor reported everything Scouts were there they were destructive.  I thought it best the Troop stay off as well since they have no business on preschool playground and we just needed to take step to avoid issues with the Church.  I did make the decision myself and reported it to them.  They apparently think I was wrong.  After a popcorn kickoff meeting I came back and announced to the Troop I was going to enter Scouts into Trails End so they can use the app to sell.  We had discussed signing up for popcorn in Committee meeting and there were no objections.  After I said invites to TE would be coming they came unglued over that too.  ONLY two things they had in thier mob to jump me over.  Almost on hour in Committee yelling at me over that.  I'm not CC anymore, but I really don't know what I did to receive that reaction.

To be clear... this isn't taking out the trash.  None of do that, not even leadership.  I always make sure it's taken care of for cleanliness.  Iam talking about a police line on camp before leaving.

1 hour ago, T2Eagle said:

Those kinds of ultimatums are just dumb, and bad parenting, bad leadership, etc.  Because, among other things, they're not instilling discipline, rather they're relinquishing it.  

What if the kid picks pushups?  The trash still isn't taken out.

It's worth remembering that you're not the ultimate person in charge of the unit.  The instances you've cited are bad.  Write them down, with dates, places, and names, and take them to your COR.  That is who is responsible for the behavior of the adults in the unit, and they along with the org are who is going to be held accountable.

The COR is being wishy washy not wanting to make a decision at the risk of losing volunteers.  So, no help.

I want to ask here.  Is demanding Scouts do one thing OR do push-ups considered corporal punishment in 2023 in the barriers to abuse?  Yelling loudly, not to be heard but angry... pick up trash or do push ups.

I haven't slept all night worrying I'm putting Scouts in danger if I quit and dont stand up for thier safety.

I need to talk to him I think.  I'm not really sure if he been going to Troop Meetings because he wants to or because I want him to go.  He has said before he feels like he is letting me down if he doesn't go.  

Told the Troop I was done with em tonight.  Now, I gotta find a new place for my son. 

4 minutes ago, skeptic said:

In theory we are, but the charter paperwork still lists the church.  We have yet to get it clear.  We have an open offer from the Masons which we may yet take, but we have not been able to verify the use document works for them too.

 

Just interested to see how its working out for those having to deal that closely with their Council.

Did anyone end up going the Council Owned Unit route after the Methodist Church stopped chartering?

40 minutes ago, AwakeEnergyScouter said:

Is the scout doing ok?

The adults sound like a train wreck, but how is the poor scout doing?

He seemed fine.  He was ready to go back out and do whatever they were doing in  the meeting.  <shrug>

22 hours ago, scoutldr said:

In today's environment, this unit is a ticking time bomb...I would distance myself.  If you are the CC, have a heart to heart conversation with your COR.  They have approved these leaders and are the ones at risk here (as well as the Scouts).  If I remember my training, you are also required to report these incidents to the Scout Executive.  Good luck.

I think I am ready to bail.  Not sure if I want to find a new Troop, start a new Troop (Ive formed a GT with little to no help), or see if my kid even wants to continue.  But I am done with this group of adults.

1 hour ago, Delphinus said:

I wholeheartedly agree. Kids join Scouting because they want to camp and do other outdoor activities like fishing, archery, shooting, etc. It seems we're trying to push a Civics class with all of these Eagle-required Citizenship MBs. Kids get enough of the DEI stuff pushed on them in school and will certainly get a fire hose of it when they enter the work force. I'm not sure BSA really needs to jump on this bandwagon and make it a requirement for Eagle. 

Recently, I can assure you there are Scouts that need a refresher in not being jerks.  Citizenship in Society is exactly what they need.  After the way some of their parents have behaved this week, I kinda see where they get it though,.

So,,, the Scout told a different story than he told his parents.  

If nothing else we have some bad behavior issues.

48 minutes ago, SiouxRanger said:

Strange, virtually no response.

Personally, I dont really care about a person's uhhh affiliation...  if that is the right word. People are who they are. I make my judgements based on one's character.  I will fight for them though when others decide to cause harm because of who they are. 

20 hours ago, T2Eagle said:

I believe that all that is true.  My advice stands: talk to all the adults, the leaders and again the parents, before you talk to the scout.  If you talk to the scout first, and he recounts essentially the story as you know it, where does that leave you?  What are you going to tell the scout is going to happen next?  Are you going to promise to punish the scouts?  Promise to punish the adults?  

You have enough of the scout's perspective for now, in order to take any action on behalf of the scout you need all the other information available. 

This can, probably will, get very unpleasant very quickly.  You want to proceed purposefully but cautiously.  Listen to everyone first, then consult with people you trust or need to trust, like your COR and DE, before announcing what is going to happen or what you want to have happen.

My first step is to find out from the Scout what happened.

One of the leaders at summer camp was the SM.  The SM who I heard from4 feet away tell Scouts they either help do dishes OR start doing pushups.  The same SM that told Scouts last week to work on boring MBs during meetings and finish in the next 2 weeks OR else just continue doing boring classroom meetings till they finish.

I do not trust the judgement of the adults that were there.  I NEED to know what happened first hand from the Scout at this point.  IF I find out this was indeed a serious bullying / hazing thing and the adults did not report it to the committee as soon as they got back, then yes we may have an adult leader issues as well.  Not anything to do with this particular issue, but from not properly following procedures.

I might add, I wont allow my kid to leave town on any sort of outing with our adult leadership unless I am there.

15 minutes ago, T2Eagle said:

You don't want "what happened in camp, stays in camp", on the other hand the leaders in camp should have handled it then and there in camp, and if they did then there's not necessarily a reason for it to have been brought home from camp or for anyone else to have been made aware of it.  When I was at camp I was in charge and took my responsibility seriously.  I handled any behavior or disciplinary issues right then and there in consultation with the other leaders in camp.  

Did the parent tell you because they were unhappy about how the leaders there handled it?  Were/are they looking for some further action, or maybe just some further explanation?  Before you move forward, what is it that you want to accomplish? 

Before I spoke to the scout I would go back and clarify what, if anything, the parent is looking for, and then, if you feel it's necessary because of your role in the troop to be involved, I would talk to whoever was in charge of the troop at camp: what their take on it all was, and share with them what the parent's concern is now.  There's no reason to speak to the scout unless there is some gap in the information that you don't have after talking to the adults involved.  

Once you know all the adult perspectives, then you work with the adults to decide how best to serve the scouts.

I know the "Adults" that were there have a history of having no interest in the rules.  Scouts climbing 20 ft trees, Scouts catching paper towel rolls on fire and tossing them in people's yards, Scouts being unsupervised, and the list goes on.  That is a topic that will be address soon.  I have been told in the past by the SM if I want a lot of discipline in the Troop I should find a ROTC program to join

To answer your question I do not trust that the adults in camp address the issue per BSA guidelines because they are not trained.  If this was indeed a case of bullying, I want to to be properly documented.  I am the CC and I won't tolerate bullying or it being swept under the rug.

18 hours ago, AwakeEnergyScouter said:

Info: is the scout actually gay? How to address this depends in part on whether it was meant as a general insult or if it was intended to undermine the scout's self-confidence more personally. 

I do not know and as far as I am concerned it doesnt matter.  Scouts calling another Scout that in the way it was described to me is wrong.

I was not at summer camp when it happened, I just found out from the parent the other day.  So,  I am going to meet with the Scout at the Troop Meeting along with another adult who wasnt there and we are going to find out the details.

Looks like this is something I will need to deal with without the training.  So any advice is of course welcome

I learned that one of our Scouts  was bullied at Summer Camp earlier this month.  Two of our Scouts felt the need to call the third Scout "Gay" as well as throw rocks at him.  Kinda the gist of the incident.  I have permission from the parent to discuss with the Scout at the next meeting what all happened.  Maybe what is more worrisome is one of the adults there posted in our Slack that "had a few issues, but they took care of them".  I definitely don't want a habit of "What happened in camp, stays in camp:"

Have a meeting with the IH and COR next week.  Talked to the DE this morning at our popcorn meeting and he is going to come by at our next Troop Meeting to see how things are.  (We don't have District Commissioners really)

1 hour ago, HICO_Eagle said:

For what it's worth, the training may tell him that he should hold PLCs at least monthly and provide adequate notice of the dates and locations for campouts but it's the committee that needs to hold him accountable and complain that he doesn't.

If I were the CC or COR, I'd insist on having a committee meeting soon to discuss the whys and wherefores of training and how the unit should function in terms of timely notifications and growing the Scouts by making the senior Scouts take some responsibility for their program.  That can't simply be dumped on them, the SM or an ASM has to teach them how to do this in a PLC.  We used to have an annual shut-in PLC in the winter specifically to teach our senior Scouts how to plan and then start to make the annual plan.

 I have talked to our COR today and we are setting up a meeting with the COR and IH to talk about training.  It will be my job to explain to them what the training is and the importance.  Its my hope the CO will agree all the leaders will be required to at least get Position Specific to be leaders in the Unit.  

8 minutes ago, Eagle_Chris said:

@5thGenTexan - it sounds like your CO hasn't read the annual rechartering agreement they signed up for and doesn't understand their responsibilities.

https://www.scouting.org/resources/internet-rechartering/

II. The Charter Organization agrees to:

A. Generally
1. Conduct the Scouting program consistent with BSA rules, regulations, and policies located on the My.Scouting website and
online at: www.scouting.org/about/membership-standards/.
2. Coordinate with the Local Council to provide annual recruitment opportunities to grow the BSA movement as well as
publicize BSA through in-house publications.
3. Refrain from using the Scouting brand as a means to imply BSA’s endorsement of the objectives of the Charter
Organization, except with respect to youth development, consistent with the goals and objectives of the Scouting
program. Refrain from soliciting financial support except as authorized for the benefit of the Unit or the Local Council.
4. Select a Charter Organization Representative (COR) to serve as a voting member of the council.

B. Management and Leadership
1. Reasonably support the Scouting Unit Committee, comprised of at least three members for each Unit.
2. Review and select all adult leaders, subject to the approval of the Local Council, and ensure they are willing to accept
Scouting’s values and meet all other requirements of membership.
3. Administer the assets of the Unit, including all funds, real property, and personal property (e.g., trailers) that are acquired
by the Unit either for the benefit of Scouting or in the name of Scouting and administer the assets for the benefit of the
Unit.
4. Authorize the unit to open a separate bank account for the Unit using the Charter Organization EIN and provide the Unit
with policies and procedures for financial reporting and asset management.
5. Follow all Guide to Safe Scouting requirements to ensure the adequate review and inspection of trailers, and other assets.

C. Use of Facilities
1. Work with the Unit to secure safe facilities for regular meetings.

I understand all of that.  We were a FUMC Unit.  Our COR with the FUMC would come to Committee Meetings. but generally just signed adult apps that we asked to be signed.  I am glad we found someone that would charter us at all without have to be a Council chartered Unit.  

I can't make the CO be more involved.

15 minutes ago, Eagle_Chris said:

 

As far as your SM, it's the role of the Chartered Organization to select and approve adult leaders, not the CC, members of the committee, or ASMs.  If you are having challenges with your SM, you should setup time with your Chartered Organization (Executive Officer, COR) to discuss your concerns.  They have a lot of responsibility as a Chartered Organization - one of them is selecting and approving adult volunteers.  Your Chartered Organization may want the program ran the way your unit is operating, or they may not even be aware.

Thats the way it works on paper, but not in our world.  We have a new CO and they don't want any involvement in what we do.  COR hopes to find another "old guy" at the Legion so he doesnt have to mess with it.  Previous CO was FUMC, they didnt get involved in what we were doing either.

But the CO and COR is not selecting anyone here and never has.  When they sign an app, its just a thing they have to come do.  Current SM is the SM because no one else was going to do it two years ago. 

I along with a couple of others are the only ones that care about the program being run as its designed. 

8 hours ago, scoutldr said:

Have all the adults and youth leaders been "Trained" in their positions?  Do they attend Roundtable?  Are those "teaching" the MB registered and trained MBC?

No.  SM has YPT and IOLS from 2016.  That is all.  Never attended a Roundtable, EVER.  ASM missed a class at summer camp last year to finish IOLS, but otherwise trained.  He is following the lead of the SM.  55% of our adult leadership is NOT trained.

We (a couple of us) offered to spend a Saturday doing an ILST course because none of the Scouts have any training and we were shot down by the SM.  He wanted to show videos on a TV on a campout somehow.

None of our adults ever attend a roundtable.

MBCs are registered as counselors.  However they are driving teaching MBs to everyone during meetings.

16 minutes ago, MattR said:

Tell us about these others. Can any of them be SM? Are any of them used to big changes? From work or elsewhere

We were a FUMC Unit up until recently of course.  We are now chartered by our local American Legion Post.  COR is an Air Force Vet AND an Eagle Scout from our Troop.  I met with him recently and we discussed issues for an hour.  He doesnt want to get in the middle of it, but seemed to be supportive of what we need to do.  He wasn't particularly happy with what I was telling him.

Our Advancement Chair was a Scout in another state, but is really well versed in how things should run as outlined by the BSA.

We have a new parent, to the Troop but was a DL in the Pack.  He is police officer that runs an BSA Police Explorer program and an Eagle Scout.  He will not let his Scout go to events if a few of us are not there due to his dissatisfaction with the current leadership.

We have a few parents on the committee who are against what we have suggested the Scouts NEED to be doing as far as PLC, meeting planning, general leadership things because they are just kids and they dont want to or cant handle what we are suggesting.

We have parents who have signed up for Committee postions, but never see them other than when they drop off of their kid and they never help out. 

I am going to propose all Committee Members are required to be fully trained regardless of what the BSA says.  I mean YPT, Hazardous Weather, Position Specific.  SM/ASM must also be trained in the position.  Otherwise I am offering the option to be Unit Scouter Reserve if they want to be involved but not really commit to anything.  I was told I am "railroading" people with that approach and I will lose adults, BUT I dont have those adults helping out anyway.  So no loss as I see it.

AND, they have planned another "Family fun Day" at a local lake.  Because if its a family fun day, its just families getting together and they don't have to worry about the rules.  This upcoming one is a swimming and kayaking event.  Excuse my language, but this just scares the crap out of me they are taking Scouts to a lake with no lifeguards, no one has taken Safe Swim.  And without that, I think if something happens insurance wont pay since they skirted everything.  Not that insurance is my primary concern, it is safety of the Scouts.