cyclops

Hillary didn't just give a pathetic, whiny stump speech to the Boy Scouts. Hillary Clinton is not President of the United States. Hillary Clinton is not the honorary President of the Boy Scouts of America. Quit your whataboutism. That speech was ridiculous unless you're a die hard Trump supporter. Maybe you are. You're entitled to it.

What? You didn't just love that repeat of the 'how'd you like that Nov 8' thing?

TT, Agreed, I have dreaded the day that this person would be the so-called 'honorary' president of the organization - I consider him to be 'without honor'. So TT, trustworthy is definitely off the table for him AFAIC, too. I'd add 'clean' and 'courteous' to the fail list as well. If I were to directly quote our President loudly enough to be heard in this CO, I would have to apologize to the congregation.

Contact the camp and get your son enrolled as a provisional scout in a different troop.  I can't imagine them not working that out for your boy.  It just might be that a troop geographically located near your residence is available for him to "check them out" on their turf at summer camp.

 

If your calendar is a bit flexible you may be able to find a close troop that is going to summer camp on a different week that the camp can accommodate a switching the week for your son.

 

I wouldn't write this off as a lost cause for the summer, start asking questions and see what's available.  Start with the camp and with potential new troops in your area.  One will need to be doing that anyway next fall, might as well start out now so your son doesn't miss out.

I agree with Stosh on this. Do the provisional and see if there's a better troop option. Do what's best for your family.

"They're more like 'guidelines'"

Wow,  I forgot to check back on my earlier entry and couldn't find it.  Whoopee, I have never started a thread before!

 

I guess this answers my question.

 

Jim

My response would be 'yes' as well. In this unit we have an atheist Buddhist family and boy. Very interesting conversations with them. The scout is really good at DO cooking, he seems to find some kind of Zen connection with it. Me too, once dinner is ready, lol.

I don't have a problem with Tillerson as long as he's honest.

I thought you were quoting that guy Krampus that used to be on here.

Me too, lol.

I read the article and basically agreed with his tone and intent. The 'belongs to the people' thing is just a metaphorical whim and anyone who seizes on that is being distracted from the real message. I'm sorry the guy wasn't heading the council while I was still in it myself.

This doesn't directly address the question but it has been my observation over the years that for our local area at least, the district executives will charter literally anything that is willing to sign the forms as new units. There's nothing on those forms that ask the intentions of the new CO's as far as I can tell and these DE's seem to want to just add units regardless of merit.

Maybe questions of 'closed' and 'open' are not of primary importance?

BSA Announcement from Chief Scout Executive Michael Surbaugh

 

He did indeed say it well and I agree. I called our COR to let him know about this and his response was a sigh of relief that "BSA did the right thing." And I agree with that too. The families should be 'in charge' of personal matters regarding their children. Plus, for this unit, it completely removes this issue as a future potential conflict with BSA...win, win.

These problems aren't unique to scouting.  Most service clubs have seen a huge drop in membership over the past decade.  It is simply getting to be too difficult to have a club anymore.

The transgender leader in ours is just fine. I don't see the connection between this issue and your claim that "Most service clubs have seen a huge drop in membership over the past decade."

Which clubs? Why the drop in membership? How is this related to transgender issues?

Interesting how a cute acronym can be employed as a substitute for thoughtful reasoning.

(Edited to avoid deletion.)

Quote from Dubya, "And as I like to tell the C students: You too, can be president."

Our CO pays for registration, very generous in my opinion. Some of the parents, years ago, organized a 'lending library' for leftover uniforms, and similar items that we make available to families who cannot easily afford them.

All other costs are paid as we go by the boys or their families. We don't have an annual 'fee' arrangement and try to cover costs of awards, etc. with fundraisers. We encourage the boys to fundraise for major trips or service projects but those end up as distinct budget subfeatures in the overall spreadsheet.

I wish I knew what it is about this species that makes us take pride in doing something like this. I've nibbled just a tiny piece of one of these things and subsequently wished bad things and had intemperate thoughts, made a few intemperate expressions of pain.

If one of the boys had followed this role model and chomped down even one of those peppers, well, in this unit I suspect the leadership would get an earful (maybe more) from some parents.

10-4, moving over to the Faith and Chaplaincy Forum...oh wait...

Now qwazse, be nice. He's probably never read any of Kudu's posts.

Thank you Adamcp. I can't imagine how anyone could view transgender as a hoax.

Some of us object to a decision a young person and their family may make or has made. This is not our place to make that decision or to try to take it away from the young person and their family just because we don't agree with it. Unless someone has specific knowledge of criminal action, to invoke child abuse is absurd, hyperbolic and prejudicial.

But that isn't the issue here. BSA made a membership policy decision with which some of us disagree. That is the issue question: who should be allowed to be a member?

BSA has decided to use the same standard that North Carolina legislated for use of bathrooms. And their decision deserves the same scrutiny and criticism as North Carolina has received because it is similarly flawed.

Edit to add: Hedgehog, why let the state (think NC) determine this? Why not just go all the way to local option?

I like the food thing. If the boys are fussing and fighting, dumping a load of carbs on them usually improves the tone.

I can go with the food idea. If the boys are fussing and fighting, dumping some carbs on them usually helps set a better tone.

Imagine some strange women walking up to tell you  they made a choice because of your acceptance of their situation and now they regret that decision. The politics in our culture doesn't allow balance in the discussions of sexual orientation. You either agree or you are a racist. We even got a taste of that tone in this discussion. To allow them in the organization would be the same as forcing the adult leaders to say they are accepting of the scout's choice.

 

Barry

Would everyone who can imagine a "strange woman" doing what Barry just suggested please raise their hand? Hello? Anyone out there?

This just confirms the 'control' aspect of this issue. Barry wants to control and argues that failure to object to this personal choice is (in his mind) a form of control. LOL.

If this decision is going to be made by someone at age 8, I'd have to defer to the family the same way I defer to them for any number of other personal decisions in their lives. A scout leader should never override the family for something like this and Barry and I will just have to disagree on this.

But since BSA has staked out their position by invoking the same 'birth certificate' standard as the NC bathroom bill, anyone in support of that position must also support scout membership for the male who has undergone the gender reassignment and is now, by any physical appearance, a young woman. That standard cuts both ways.

As for the comment about being racist? Where did THAT come from? What does transgender have to do with race? As Ross Perot says, "I'm all ears".

If you are as self-righteous and judgemental of scout leader role models who don't agree with cultural inclusiveness as you are to just us in this discussion, just imagine your reaction to their natural behavior.

I'm not all that concerned about the 'natural behavior' of scout leaders, whatever it is you mean by 'natural behavior', as long as the YP is not violated.

NJ, I agree...I think....

My point is that any level of positive leadership is going to have some kind of influence on the young person. To me this issue is all about 'control' and has little to do with what might be 'best' for any particular young person.

We as a culture should have a set of safe behavior guidelines to protect our youth when they are going through times of confusion.

It's called 'Youth Protection'.

Giving acceptance to every thought of an inexperienced undeveloped immature juvenal mind should be a crime.

What level of crime do you advocate? What would you call it?  What punishment?

Acceptance of allowing the child to evolve toward that emotion is the same as contributing to the choices they make in their future. I contend the BSA needs to save the volunteers and it's reputation from that contribution. I guess it comes under "Do no harm."

Role models? Hello? You can't be an active leader in a youth organization without making those contributions.

Who am I (or you) to say it's not possible?

You must know already that this is all about 'control'.

If BSA wants to be 'true' to their so-called membership 'standards', then membership for the teenage boy who has gone the distance with complete reassignment must be supported by BSA no matter what the present physical reality is. The birth certificate will identify her as male and no matter what the physical status actually IS, BSA must live up to their stated 'standard'.

And she will also be welcome in this unit.

Technology does indeed make for interesting times. And those who are uncomfortable with it need to learn to live with it because 'it' is not going to stop. Even better, the changes brought by technology are accelerating.

My advice: enjoy the ride.

Edit to add: in response to the following post, this unit has some trans adults in leadership positions. They are also prominent in local community, government...and most people have no clue or else just don't worry about it. It's just not that big a deal...unless you make it one. And that's what BSA seems to be trying to do.

Sorry, all my stuff is aged about 30 years earlier. But as I peruse the flea markets for cheap unregistered guns I often see these kinds of things offered, sometimes alongside the guns, lol. I'm just not certain about their dates.