MattHiggins

Maybe instead of trying to influence the entire troop at once from the top down, focus on a patrol. I doubt anyone could go into a troop--especially one that sounds to be otherwise a healthy unit--and change things overnight. If your son happens to be in a new Scout patrol, start there by teaching them how to structure the patrol to be able to work independently of any adults. If they don't have well defined patrols, ask to take on a new Scout patrol, which is often a role for an ASM.

My second observation is a little bit of devil's advocate. How much or how little adults have to get their hands dirty changes based on who is in the troop. It isn't always perfect. Your first impression might have been different if you joined this troop five years ago or two years from now. I'm just giving the leaders the benefit of the doubt. Because they're minors, there's always some wizard behind the screen.

Personally, I would suggest disclosing your son's autism. As a unit leader, I find it difficult to set appropriate expectations without knowing such information.

Anyone know the history on the seven virtues (wisdom, courage, self-control, justice, faith and love) used by many for an Arrow of Light ceremony?

I have read that the seven rays on the Arrow of Light symbol represent the seven days of the week and serve as a daily reminder to do your best. I've also read that it's to remind to do a good turn daily, but that's a Boy Scout slogan.

Anyway, the seven virtues make for a nice enough ceremony, but it seems odd, in my humble opinion, to use this language for the first time at the ceremony.

If the church actually wants the charter, I'd consider it. Often chartered organizations are more like absentee landlords than active partners. So, if the church was proactively looking to hold the charter, I'd hear them out. Are they offering meeting space? Storage? Will someone from the church attend committee meetings (can be a mixed blessing--pun intended)?

Any opinions on how the G2SS would apply if we took some boys "jeepin"?   A bunch of us in the troop have jeeps and I have been asked if we could consider taking some of the older boys "jeeping" offroad, but I am not sure how the guide 2 safe scouting might apply.  I don't think these would count as the same rules as the little ATV type vehicles that some council camps let the scouts drive themselves, and that people are always flipping over etc..  yet, I don't know if this would count as normal vehicle driving.

 

We are talking about some pretty mild off-road trails in a park, not extreme rock crawling or anything like that.  Just gravel, mud, and maybe some stream crossing etc.

 

Anyone have any thoughts?

I wouldn't mix the two. I would make it clear it wasn't a Scout activity.

I would meet with your chartered organization representative. The chartered organization decides who holds leadership positions. Sometimes (sometimes often), they aren't that involved, but I'd start with a conversation there. If not--or maybe also--I'd contact your district executive and your pack's unit commissioner.

Is the Cubmaster trained?

These things can get ugly--at least ugly enough to not be worth the drama. So, another option is to start a new pack. I'd see that as a last resort.

The blanket the Scout Store sells is nice. We have it and love it.

I bit my tongue for page after page of this, but this thread--and it's not the only one on this forum--are horrible examples of Scouting values. There is a ton of great information on this forum, but threads like this are a total disappointment. I know forums bring this out in people, but if I wanted to show Scouts how people should treat each other online this isn't where I'd take them. Like I said, lots of great info here on this forum, but also lots of egos and attitudes.

_{So in his letter, the Archbishop mentions that one of his problems with the Girl Scouts is their relationship with Amnesty International because, according to the Archbishop, the work of Amnesty International is in conflict with the teachings of the Catholic Church.}

 

_{Until now, I never thought of the Catholic Church being opposed to organizations that oppose dictatorial regimes beheading political opponents and other dissidents.}

 

_{Does the Pope know that his Archbishop supports beheading political enemies?  Just curious.}

_{You're twisting things.}

_{As I'm sure you're well aware, the Catholic Church traditionally teaches against contraception (there have been exceptions) and has consistently opposed abortion. Amnesty International has not. Thus, the position of the Archbishop. That doesn't mean he or any part of the Catholic Church supports beheading anyone.}

90% of the work being done by 10% is very much true. I'm sure we all experience it. It certainly is the leading cause of burnout.

A kindergarten program is long overdue. We've seen a huge increase in all-day kindergarten since the early 2000s, and now that the majority of the country offers it, BSA has gotten a little behind its "competition." Traditionally, most youth programs start or target student-age kids. Sure, you can enroll your 3-year-old in dance or tumbling, but once school starts that's when the flyers start coming home. Kindergarden is the right time to introduce Scouting. Plus, the BSA was smart about it and kept it pretty low key. Lions will meet only twice a month--one den meeting and one outing type meeting.

As for burnout, it's not the number of years that do it. Youth burnout happens when a monotonous program is offered. It's an easy trap to fall in. In my opinion, every year has to be different--different outings, different games, different locations, etc. Plus, there has to be serious effort made to make certain the experience for a Webelos is different than what he remembers as a Tiger or Wolf. Adult burnout is real and often self induced. When you have it, have (or make) someone else take over. Take a break. Most of us don't because of ego, not because we can't get someone else to step in.

I too had made this mistake. I had it pointed out at EDGE training by a well meaning--I think--instructor.

As has been mentioned, it is indeed a youth-only patch. Interesting, in a training slide show made by national, there were adults shown with the patch on their uniform.

I went with the Tactical 511 pants since I could not find a pair of Scout pants in my size. You can not tell the difference and they are extremely durable. Good luck.

Which ones did you go with?

I don't care for how we do ours.

 

I don't think in my time we ever had a scout or den earn rank by the time of B&G.  Rarely are there even any other awards presented at B&G

we do both AOL & Crossover ceremonies at the B&G

...

I wanted to do AOL patch when earned, and ceremony at the very next pack meeting

B&G as its own event

crossover as a den, or even better a troop event separate from everything else

I failed miserably in making any of that happen.

I was thrilled (and surprised) when our committee agreed to have B&G, AOL, and Crossing Over as three separate events. There are more than a few pack members who don't embrace change.

 

 

I like the idea of saying a troop oriented "Hello" better than the current practice of a pack oriented saying "Goodbye".

When the Arrow of Light Scouts cross over, the troop they are going to is there to greet them and present them with their neckerchief. We give the Scout a Boy Scout handbook before he crosses the bridge. So, our ceremony is both a goodbye and a hello. We have three packs in town and six troops, so kids go everywhere. We often have two or three troops at crossing over.

I know most packs use a bridge in their crossing over ceremony. In the past our pack has had all ranks cross over the bridge, but we've also had the bridge pushed out of the way and only used the bridge for the Arrow of Light den crossing over to Boy Scouts. I highly favor the later. What does your pack do?

My plan is to have the Tigers through Bears step forward to receive their advancement and only use our bridge for the Arrow of Light den.

While we never had all of those rolled into one (your pack should have thrown recruiting night and Pinewood Derby in there too), we did combine a few. This will be the first year that all are separate events.

ROFL....

 

Don't want to hijack the thread, but that video is more of a reflection of TV than it is of Bear Grylls. He's a popular target because, well, because he's popular.  

I honestly do not understand the constant need to force certain organizations to comply to your ideals.

It's clear--in my opinion--that the activist Mark Lawrence, in the interview, is only motivated by his agenda and not a desire to serve youth. Instead of suing the BSA, start your own organization. If it's truly what the majority wants, it will flourish. But, it's not about helping kids, it's about the agenda.

I don't see the point. I would rather that WDL's instill other things in their Webelos--like advancement without parents, independent thinking, and working together.  

This wouldn't replace instilling other elements. Like a lot of the program, it's but one link in the chain.

In my opinion, there are multiple reasons to consider doing it:

> I like to see the program change as kids get older simply so they don't bored. This is probably my primary motivation. It makes Webelos different. Cub Scouts is boring by year four or five if only the requirements change. The risk, in my opinion, is that the subtle increases in complexity are lost on the boys and every year kind of seems the same.

> It prepares them, in a small way, for the Boy Scout patrol concept

> As was pointed out, it builds team spirit

> As was also pointed out, it's fun for them

> It's something you can let them completely take the lead on--again builds towards Boy Scouts

Do most leaders have their Webelos dens come up with a name and pick a patch?

My pack has not been doing this, but as Cubmaster I have encouraged the Webelos and Arrow of Light dens to do so (they have not and it's not a put my foot down issue). I see it being valuable because it keeps Cub Scouts from getting stale for the older boys and gives a taste of taking leadership on a task. Of course, picking a den name isn't the only element for keeping Cub Scouts interesting and not monotonous for the older boys and it isn't the only time they get to take point.

Anyway, do most packs have the Webelos pick a den name and patch? I presume that the word patrol is not used as they are still a den. I am also a den leader of our Bear den and plan to have the boys do this as soon as they crossover.

The other leaders not using this option has been a lot like the denner concept. My den is the only one that has denners. I recommend, but don't push.

ROFL, why? I don't need him for anything . . .

. . . He gets paid to develop relationships with units. It is literally one of his paid duties. Not sure why I should help someone do their job when they obviously could not care less about me, my unit, my CO or anything related to our well-being. There has to be a line drawn at some point when trying to help others otherwise 1) they will never learn to do things for themselves, and 2) everyone has a limit to which they can help someone.

Do you have a relationship with anyone at your council? I imagine you must. I wasn't suggesting your role is to help the DE.Doesn't sound like he needs any help if he has had the job for years and doesn't have interact with any units--not even send an email. If I was you, I'd be more interested in seeing how he can help your unit. Maybe your unit is an island and you don't need your council for anything.

Still surprised a DE is never required to got to Roundtable or even contact a unit.

Never seen my DEs. Ever. Couldn't pick them out of a police lineup. For all I know we don't have any.

Your council doesn't require the DEs to attend Roundtables? I'd contact your council's Scout executive and ask for that to change.

Like most people here, I have been involved in Scouting from a few different angles. I was a Scout, I got involved again as a parent, quickly became a Scouter (assistant den leader to den leader, assistant Cubmaster to Cubmaster). Not the most original story. Like a few, I have worked on the professional side as a DE--thankfully only briefly.

While I love Scouting, I hated that job. I didn't care for the council management (leadership style or goal achieving methods), but I was blown away by or most disappointed with the animosity from fellow Scouters. Of course, many frustrations with council were warranted (but often Scouters would never see council actions with an open mind) and I'm sure I dropped a ball or two (who doesn't), but animosity was the default behavior from a huge number of Scouts.

As a DE, you didn't have to prove yourself a failure to be treated poorly, you had to prove yourself to be super human to be treated remotely decently. The council and DE were, in my experience, often the scapegoat. DEs are often (as in always) caught in the middle-- a nasty crossfire of blame. Charters are a perfect example.

This animosity for the professional side of Scouting was something like oral tradition. Leaders learned to hate anything council before they met anyone from council. I have to admit a quit the job because of council management. They make most DEs miserable and have an uncanny turnover rate to thank for it. And, it's not just my council, it seems to be an epidemic. That said, I have to go back to how disappointed I was in how un-Scout-like many Scouters behaved. Oh well. All I really have to say is to maybe work with a DE and not against him or her. At least treat them like you'd want to be treated.

I'm having trouble getting our treasurer to buy in to getting the belt loops and pins for the required adventures ahead of time.  We have plenty of money in our bank account, I think he's just afraid that our leaders will lose the loops/pins and we will have to re buy them.  Any ideas on how I can convince him that giving the boys immediate recognition is more of a priority than preventing the possible loss of a few awards?  Is there anywhere that I can find the "official" recommentation that they be given out immediately in print that I can share with him?

That's a pretty legit concern. I saw a pack use a flat plastic tray style box with the flip open lid and adjustable dividers. They are used for fishing tackle and hardware all of the time. They work great for belt loops. It organized and had a inventory sheet