Protoclete

It's just curiosity, but does anyone know where to see stats on the number of districts? I have found 262 councils and 99,814 units (though both surely have changed and will change since these numbers printed in 2018 and 2017 respectively). Just curious if anyone ever published a total number of districts. 

I'm sorry i missed the call,  it was just a little too late in the evening over here. 

Overall, downsizing and streamlining is a good thing. For the size of the organization, we have far to many layers and levels that don't actually seem to contribute to the mission of the organization. Maybe necessary at peak membership levels fifty years ago, but seeming only to exist because they have always existed these days. I'm glad people are taking seriously the pandemic - and even, if unfortunately, the lawsuits - as a real crisis, a turning point, and an opportunity to redesign and come out leaner and more efficient at doing what we do best. The idea that the current volunteer and data management systems - and the whole recharter concept - could be scrapped in favor of something that actually makes sense, and uses the technology we have to limit the amount of 'paperwork' we all have to do is probably the best news in this whole thing. 

It'll be hard, yes, but better than if we just tried to weather it all by doing nothing. 

Thanks, I get that VISA is parallel to groups like the International Catholic Committee on Scouting or the International FOrum of Jewish Scouts, which regulate the religious emblems for Scouts of their faith. It just seemed like LDS would allow the new organization, more in keeping with how other churches handle it, to continue the same awards. After all, they are awards for scouts of that faith, and it would not seem appropriate to change if their faith hasn't changed. But if that isn't the way it's worked out, i will say this: I like the look of the new ones better! (purely aesthetic). 

Maybe I missed something, but why would there be a new religious emblem program? The LDS has an established emblems program, that should really just continue, no? Even if the internal organization responsible for scouting has changed. 

I have been part of reviews that were held in the conference room of the embassy, in (very nice) private homes, in the school or church where district meetings and roundtable were held, and in the (also very nice) fireside room of a golf club that some district personage belonged to. 

There should be a certain solemnity to it - not somber, but serious. The mood should be light but not flippant. You are not there to interrogate the kid, more like a job interview - a conversation about the person and their experiences that brought them to this point. They should be comfortable and not intimidated, but it should be a nice enough space that it doesn't look like an afterthought. You want to demonstrate respect for the Eagle candidate, and also signal that this is a big accomplishment, without getting so formal that they freeze. 

The last board I was on was probably the best I've ever seen. The Scout had finished everything just days before turning 18, was a senior in high school, bright and engaging. We ranged from field studies to Foucault. I think everyone, the candidate and all the board members (who mostly did not know each other) all had a good time. And we learned a lot about the Scout. 

As higher education institutions are moving to online teaching for the rest of the semester because of Coronavirus concerns, it is an opportunity to re-evaluate the availability of some training online that currently is not. 

I am a college professor. I am fully in support of the value of in-person classes and discussion when possible. As for the overall all debate on in-person vs. online, while I enjoy and prefer in-person when possible - if accredited universities can offer all their classes online, certainly scouting should be able to as well. Especially in geographically large councils, for people who have mobility or financial limitations, or times when public gatherings are prohibited (as, for some of us, right now). 

I am also aware that some of the online training Scouting provides is duplicated or cumbersome. However, for the most part, it is much easier now to get people trained at least to a basic, position specific level, than it ever has. This has also, I think just as importantly, made it possible to track a person's training to a degree we did not have even a decade ago.

Noticeably lacking in this area, however, is the College of Commissioner Science. I know the lessons slides/notes are available online (https://www.scouting.org/commissioners/training/college/), but downloading and reading these usually will not 'count' as having taken the class. I have, over the last 15 years, been to three CCS/UoS events, in three different councils, and almost inevitably, it was just a powerpoint presentation that one could have just as well read on your own time at home. There is value in the conversations and sharing with others between 'classes', but the lessons themselves are no different in person than online. 

And, none of those three have recorded any of my attendance anywhere trackable. I cannot 'prove' I was at them, other than to find an old patch when available.  Three should be enough to complete the "master's level" but I'm still arguing for my "bachelor's". 

So, shouldn't we be encouraging either or both:

• These classes be added to the online training available to all scouts.
• A way to submit attendance at classes to be "certified" in some way, so that in-person training is tracked and recorded along with all the online training?

Anything else? 

I'm out here in Transatlantic Council, Mediterranean Distict.

The World Scout Interreligious Symposium scheduled for this week in Jambville (Paris) France has been indefinitely postponed.

We delayed our Annual Conference / University of Scouting event set for this coming weekend in Germany. 

Several of our troops in Italy have cancelled events, and our District is planning an event over memorial day weekend in Florence that is still on - but we are watching carefully and, perhaps a month from now, will have to decide whether it continues. 

20 hours ago, Merlyn_LeRoy said:

To get back to Protoclete's question instead of the usual bickering of theists lying about how atheists can't have morals...

You can't legally charter a traditional BSA unit (pack, troop, etc) to a public school in the US; as your initial post points out, that requires the school to exclude atheists, something a public school can't do.

It looks like some international schools in the US are private, and some are attached to a public school system; only the ones that are private would be able to charter a unit.

Thanks - but, when did that change? Or is it that the charter is with the PTA instead of the public school per se, and they simply use the space? I've been overseas for over a decade, but it seems like most of the packs we had were at public schools.

On 2/15/2020 at 6:17 AM, Beccachap said:

Also, what exactly is the value - if any - to a Commissioner?

 

If you are a large and active troop with well trained and very experienced Scouters, a UC might just be helpful in terms of some of the paperwork and reporting, or acting as an outside resource if you have some internal issues in the unit or within the Chartered org, but that's about it. For smaller units or newer leaders, the UC should be a mentor and resource for how to do things well. 

If nothing else, I cannot tell you how many times I have had unit leaders complain that they never see anyone "from the district". The whole point of the UC is to be the local representative of the district to the units, just as the COR is the representative of the local units and their chartering org to the District and Council. 

I'm in a geographically huge district - multiple countries - I would love to have a UC in each locale where we have units, but it is unrealistic, sadly. A lot of their work ends up being done via email - then it is a little hard to see the value when the District Commissioner is the go-to guy for a lot of units directly. It just ends up sharing the workload on his end, but to the units, they just see one more email address and not sure who to copy for what, so they just tend to include the DC, DE, UC, and me all the time in everything. Despite best efforts. 

Historically, UCs also had something to do with recharter, but now that everything is all online an inaccessible to them, they can't really do much there. 

It is helpful whenever you need a district representative for something - like an Eagle BOR - to have a commissioner around. Or if you need help navigating BSA resources or awards nominations, and the like. 

Ideally, they are there to help your leaders succeed. They are not there for the Scouts - you are. The UC is there for you, the adult volunteers, whether on the Committee or SM/CM and assistants. 

5 minutes ago, David CO said:

The most positive change the councils could make would be to restore the role of the Chartered Organizations.   

Could you expand what you mean by that? I'm not clear what has changed about their role. 

Thanks to all so far. Some helpful information and good ideas.

I forget who asked, but yes, I'm the district chair, just fairly new to the position. First end of year and JTE review. A bit surprised at the difficulty to get relatively simple information from the volunteer management system. Or correcting it. Or finding out where it is populated from. 

The JTE resources (https://www.scouting.org/awards/journey-to-excellence/) are informative in some areas, but it's here that i found some of these things were supposed to be manually entered, but not clear who has been doing the manual entering (not me or the DE).  It's exactly that 'garbage in' I'd like to clean up so i can see what I'm really dealing with.

The new units are there. Small, mostly girl troops, but real. Its the data that's a problem, or how it works. 

I might try to make nice with the Council registrar, but a box of chocolates might not work... she's about 800 miles away. 

I should add, perhaps, i'm not interested much in the result - gold/silver, whatever - as much as in getting the information correct so I have an accurate baseline to work with for the coming year, and seeing that tracked accurately in the system. 

Does anybody have experience with and insight into the District-level JTE information that forms the basis for the JTE Scorecard / meters on My.Scouting? 

A lot of this information seems to be automatically brought in from somewhere - number of new units, number of District committee members, etc. - but it has little to do with the reality. And it does not even seem to match the information in the system itself. 

For example, there is no correlation between the number it shows are on my district committee and the number who are actually on the committee, nor the number who have positions that show up in the system who should be on the committee - and no where to update or edit it. 

Or the fact that the "new unit growth" shows that we have 30 units, over last year's 21, yet numbers this as a 9% increase. Basic math problem. 

Some things, like camping nights and service hours, I know simply depend on units getting their information in on time, but there is a lot else that seems to be auto-filled and is not at all accurate. 

Have tried talking to professionals and they are pursuing it, but I was hoping to cast a wider net. How do i update this or where does the info come from? Who even knows this kind of thing that I could ask? JIRA is 50/50 in terms of agents even reading the requests for help accurately. When they do, they are great, but it is a hassle even to ask. 

I've never run into this as a problem before. One of our international schools, run like a public, non-sectarian school, has been a Chartered Org in the past and was asked to become one again. They seem to be stuck on the Statement of Religious Principle, that if the IH and COR sign it, they are committing the school to the exclusion of atheists in a school sponsored program. I've never had a problem with a public school or an international school before. Usually they 'get' that Scouting is nonsectarian, and that the chartered org gets to decide how much if any religiosity is part of the program. 

Has anyone faced similar challenges and how were they dealt with? 

Wow, this is an old thread! The question came up in another context and found this looking for insight here. Since the thread was last updated, there have been some developments, at least according to this http://www.scoutinsignia.com/cnclknot.htm:

Quote

 
Unofficial Girl Scout Gold Award square knot

Emblem Description: gold square knot representing the Girl Scout Gold Award (the highest award available in that movement) on a middle green background with a silver border (left). There is also a version which has a mylar gold border (right).

Girl Scouts of the USA (GSUSA) Gold Award (lapel) Pin, the highest award in Girl Scouting (equal to BSA's Eagle Award)

Background/Justification: Between 2009 and 2014, fourteen local Council Scout Executives in various parts of the nation APPROVED this unofficial insignia to be worn by Gold Award holders (or who previously earned the Girl Scout First Class Award) who are currently registered as Venturers, Venturing leaders or Boy Scouters.

The BSA approved the wearing of the small Girl Scout Gold Award pin to be worn centered on the left pocket of the Venturing field uniform in 2009; with the new Venturing award placement starting in 2014, the Gold Award pin may be worn centered on the left pocket flap between the button and the top edge of the pocket flap.

 

We had the same system when I was a scout, a council or district patch in the middle, with segments for summer camp and camporee and all sorts of things ringed around it.

The center patch was supposed to be centered on the pocket, and the segments not to exceed the seams of the pocket. 

In fact, this example is used on this page, from my old Council: http://www.scoutinsignia.com/tmppatch.htm

I think the only badges I remember being set below the pocket were the Arrow of Light (left) and the Recruiter Strip (right). 

Some award knots are restricted, and you must show that you have earned it to get one. 

However, some, like the Youth Religious Emblem knot are not restricted. You can simply buy it along with other uniform pieces. We trust you. 

(I earned my first youth religious emblem in 1991 as well. I still have the medal, but no certificates or paperwork anywhere. Never had a problem getting the knot when i got a new uniform shirt.)

19 hours ago, jjlash said:

For both DAM and Silver Beaver we carry forward non-selected nominations for 1 year.  That is - new nominations that were not selected to receive the award are automatically kept and are considered again next year.  They are only carried forward 1 year - if they are not selected the second year they are destroyed and must be re-nominated for future consideration.

This is a good practice. We implemented that this year, but with a two-year 'live' period. 

After nearly ten years as an adult Scouter, over a twenty-year period, I finally got to do Woodbadge last summer. At Gilwell itself, which was part of the appeal to doing it then. 

The value of Woodbadge is that it is a leadership development course. It is ideal, I think, for

   a) Scouters who are relatively new but have completed the other basic training sessions - so maybe around 2-3 years of tenure. The next logical step after IOLS or BALOO. 

   b) Scouters who are returning to scouting after a hiatus for whatever reason (this was my case), a way to jump back in and get reconnected, reoriented.

   c) Anyone who has not had serious leadership training through the military, their religious institution, or executive management in business. 

It modeled the patrol method, gave a birds-eye view of scouting, and allowed for some concentrated networking and team building - and some of the dynamics thereof. It demonstrated a number of topics and tools to use for leadership development of the Scouts, which is the point. The tickets helped me focus concrete actions to improve service in my district, very practical. 

It was valuable to me as someone who, despite having been an Eagle Scout and a scouter, had been away from Scouting for nearly a decade (due to location/availability), as a way to reconnect and reorient, and see what has changed, and to meet people face to face in a Council that covers two and a half continents. But the general leadership content was mostly nothing new - and in fact that I have taught many times in many organizations. It was still worth it though. 

Challenges or disadvantages?

I think it is overhyped at times. It could be a mountaintop experience for someone who has never been to a leadership training seminar or retreat before, or who is not in a leadership position for work. I remember thinking in my 20s to put it off until I had more experience because people made such a big deal about it - but now having done it i think that would have been the ideal time to do it. Having done JLT/NYLT as a youth, this is just the adult version. The problem here is not Woodbadge itself, but the way it is sometimes presented to those who have not been. 

There is also the tendency, in some places more than others, towards cliquishness or a kind of group within the group. I remember at a Council training day, some guy got up and started singing Back to Gilwell - which meant next to nothing to me at the time. More and more scouters joined for their critters, gleefully and almost like kids again. It was a bit surreal. By the time they finished, 90% of the people in the room were up there, leaving the rest of us feeling a bit dazed and confused. Only then did anyone explain what that was all about. If I had not already decided to do Woodbadge that year, that experience would have turned me off the whole thing. Not the way to promote something, in Scouting, in my mind - "here, feeling left out? Good! Here's what you should do to join the inner circle!". 

I also do not understand the obsession some people have with critters. It was my patrol for that week. OK. The people were great. There's really nothing about being part of Bobwhite patrol during that one week that I need to carry on about after it is done. Maybe it would be different if I had been an Eagle or a Bear or something, but... meh. The people I spent the week with were good people, inspiring, and I'm happy to connect with them on occasion. I cannot even remember what patrols I was in as a Scout over the period of several years, why would I carry on about what patrol I was in as a Scouter, for one week? 

I think the new curriculum is meant to address these last couple issues somewhat, and that is a good thing. 

Overall, it is still worth doing, if you can.

Well, FYI, got an answer from National. The database has been suspended because the vendor pulled out and while national is undergoing its staff changes and restructuring. Hopefully will be back sometime in the not too distant future. 

For those who have organized district or council awards committees, did you use or discover any really effective tools for helping committee members evaluate and compare nominations? 

For example, did anyone use a 1-5 rating scale on different aspects of the nominations, or assign points, or create a matrix or written evaluation tool of any kind? Or just get together and hash it out verbally with each other? 

As I'm organizing our awards committees, I'm looking for good ideas to implement here - which will culminate in a live meeting, of course, but would love to hear some good ideas if they are out there. 

At my woodbadge, there was an interfaith service / scouts own planned by the "chaplain aides" of each patrol, many of whom were actually chaplains. 

In addition, information was given for the local Christian church to attend Eucharist, at a time that made it possible to do before registration; there was a shabbat blessing during friday night's meal; there were juma prayers that everyone was invited to, with a slight time adjustment. 

I have been to unit events where the chartering organization was a specific church (say, Catholic or Lutheran) and a service of that denomination was planned. 

I find that a lot of people appreciate the religious diversity, and seeing the different traditions' prayers in practice, rather than just a one-size-fits-all opportunity. But there is room for both. 

So... what happened with the Scout alumni directory update? I see https://scoutingalumni.org/ got a new look and feel, but we cannot log in anymore nor search for alumni. Any ideas what the status is? 

Is there still a Roundtable Staff Scouter Training Award? I find it referenced all over the place, but only with the old style progress record, and nothing seems to say it was discontinued. Anyone know for sure?