BrentAllen

Seattle, You will have to take your argument up with Green Bar Bill. When I started this Troop, I followed his advice. This is what he recommended the new SM say to his new group of Scouts at their very first meeting: "The Troop we organize here must be one of the finest and most active Troops ever started. It must measure up with the best Troops in the Council. Every Scout in it must be right on the job all of the time to be the best kind of a Scout he can. Ours must be a winning team in the great game of Scouting!" I've since followed the program he outlined to meet those go

...and there are plenty of other folders in the forum if you don't like this one... So, what are we supposed to discuss in this folder, titled "Uniforms"?

SP, Turn to page 33 in the current BS HB. You can read the answer to your question there. Also, for our Honor Patrol competition, Scouts must have their handbook to be considered in uniform. Kudu, Thanks for typing out a response I really didn't want to spend time on. If there was ever one statement you made that I 100% agree with (and couldn't say better), it is the following: "If a Scoutmaster makes a radical Outdoor Patrol Method his ONLY aim, the "Three Aims" will follow." Character? The character I want to see is the Scout who is cook for his patrol for breakfas

Beavah, I knew you wouldn't let me down! Those other methods - we gave up on them. We are bringing in a bunch of sofas and drink machines so the boys can sit around like couch potatoes and play video games. Adult Association? No need, just letting them go with the Lord of the Flies. Character? Our motto is "Just don't get caught" or "Just don't get caught in our Troop t-shirt." Aims? Who needs them? We are just a camping club, can't you tell? Sorry, if you want to see how we are delivering the promise of Scouting and achieving the Mission, you are going to have to haul yo

Lisa, Your solution is not an "either/or" it is an "and." Think about it - those who are already incarcerated have already gone through the public school system. We spent that money, and now we are also incarcerating. The only way to get to an "either/ or" is to do what Seattle suggests - then you at least save the educational funds. Please note that I am not agreeing with Seattle - I'm not sure if I understand exactly what he means. I was just making a point about Lisa's choices for spending the money.

Buffalo, Do the boys ever want to go to Philmont? If so, they better start liking backpacking. :-) If you have a High Adventure backpacking trip scheduled during the next 12 months, that Crew (up to 12 for Philmont) should be taking shake-down/ training trips, in addition to Troop trips. That would be a good time to invite some newbies to go along. Start them off easy. Providence Canyon State Park makes for a nice 7 - 10 mile loop, if you camp at the Pioneer sites. We made that trip, breaking camp completely for the backpacking, and returned to the same site for Saturday night.

If Venturing is the model of success for the BSA to go coed, it ain't going to happen anytime soon. Our District had 6 Crews last year, and two of them didn't recharter. Those two had COs that are sponsoring successful Troops. The average membership in the other 4 Crews is around 6. The lifespan of a Crew appears to be pretty short, around 2 - 3 years.

Beavah, I could talk about the others all day long - it's just not as defined as the others. Outdoors Our oldest boys are freshmen in high school, just turning 15. We have 8 of them. Nearly all have been to Summer Camp 4 years, and will go for their 5th camp this year. Most have been to two HA Bases, a 10-day Northern Tier Trek covering 106 miles as 13 year-olds, and down to Sea Base last year. They are heading out to Montana (MOHAB) for a backpacking trip in the Rockies this summer, a couple of hours south of Glacier National Park. They will finally get to go to Philmont in 2012

Beavah, I guess I missed that part of my training where they told us we would only be able to prioritize a few of the methods. IMO, the best Troops make a priority of all the methods to achieve the Mission. "Even da most well off troop doesn't have the time and resources to prioritize everything." Sorry, I disagree. The SM who is trying to build the best Troop in his Council knows he needs all parts working to reach his goal. Using your house and tools analogy, the SM knows he needs the best in everything to produce the best product on the market. And maybe that is the rub, not ma

Basement, If you thought I was taking shots at you about income, then I apologize. That was not my intent. My intent was to point out that the JTE was designed to help units build a stronger program, and that the budget was not just a recording of financial numbers. The budget can be used to build a stronger program by pointing out to parents that the Scouts would like to do some things that they can't afford, and that you needed additional fundraisers to accomplish them. In my mind, the Scouts come up with a wish list and then submit it to the Pack or Troop committee, which is suppo

"...Scouters push uniforming so hard...." This is what I can't understand - why does uniforming have to be pushed so hard to be successful? A Troop is going to have a uniform culture - it is going to be established and followed. That culture may be full uniform or it may be waist-up or some other derivative. Troops that are full uniform have that culture, and it is followed just as easily as the waist-up culture. I think some here think that full uniform Troops are constantly fighting a battle to keep the boys in uniform - that simply isn't true. It is a culture, an acceptable practi

Kudu, If you don't think boys take pride in their baseball uniforms, then you are very mistaken. Beavah, Boys like the uniform - did you miss Lisabob's comments about the Switchbacks? It appears many like the shirt, since some Troops wear only that. And what's the deal with all the fat Scouters in your area? Do you not have any gyms?

Beavah, A good contractor (SM) isn't going to let a poor subcontractor ruin his overall product. Use a bad electrician and poor materials, and even the house with the best plumbing and carpentry will still burn down. Houses are different styles, but in each style there is still high quality and poor quality end results. You can build the best house in the world, but if it looks like crap on the outside, nobody is going to care about the inside. If we can't teach our Scouts that curb appeal (first impression) is important, then we have failed them.

Scoutfish, There's no honor in trying to rationalize down the program - anyone can do that. No matter how hard you try, the text is not going to change. The honor is found in trying to meet or exceed the standard.

Beavah, no comment on the restaurant? I think the SM was doing the same thing, which is not being rude, but helpful. And being obedient would mean wearing the uniform of the group you belong to and are representing.

SR540, I would defer to John Wooden. I think he knew a thing or two about uniforms and putting together high performing teams. Jeans are the uniform of the car camper. No one serious about the outdoors would wear jeans camping. "I pity the fool" that wears jeans to the Boundary Waters Canoe Area or on a real backpacking trip.

skeptic, I don't know exactly whay you mean by "governing documents" but the Cub Scout Leader Book is pretty clear: "Uniform parts should not be worn separately or with civilian clothing. The entire uniform should be worn or not at all. The pack does not have the authority to make changes to the uniform."

Sherm, You owe that Attaboy to someone else, not me - the description isn't about our Troop - yet.

So Beavah, is that upscale restaurant being rude for offering you a dinner jacket because they require it, and you didn't wear one? This is the same issue here. As for your hypothetical, you have it all wrong. The election team comes in at the rear of the building, where the SM is (at the back of the room). He speaks to the election team, since the SPL is involved with the program. The SM isn't fat, he just ran a half-marathon this past weekend. His Troop is very fit, as most of the boys run Cross-Country, inspired by their SM. They are completely and correctly uniformed. They have

Beavah, You must have been around some pretty sorry units during all those years, since you are always making excuses for them. I guess you never saw a really good Troop, because according to you, if the boys can say the Oath and Law, they must not be living it. If the Troop is fully uniformed, they must be a bunch of parlour Scouts with no outdoor program. Maybe if you saw a really strong, healthy Troop, you would have a different attitude, because believe me, they do exist. The $64,000 question is why do these units exist, and others can't pull it off. Weak-kneed leaders is my a

Basement, If you are looking for some magic program to get your parents involved, it ain't going to happen. That's not the point of this program. It is to help units build strong, healthy units, and I think it does a good job of pointing out what it takes to build those. You say the Pack has succession planning covered, but yet you said earlier that nobody would step up to take your place. That's not succession planning, in my book. Succession planning to me means you have ADLs for all your Dens, so if the DL gets transferred, ill or whatever, you have a specific person there to tak

Basement, Weren't you the one who was complaining about the Pack being a one-man show the other week? About how you couldn't get parents to volunteer to help with the Graduation campout? How you were still serving as Cubmaster because no one else would step up? You had the PWD where a parent hit one of your leaders? And now you say your Pack has all 13 points covered, including succession? How does your Pack run a full week of Day Camp when you can't get volunteers for one camping trip? Something doesn't add up.

Here's another shining example of why we should all love unions. City bus driver shows up for work drunk. Fire him, right? Nope, can't do that, thanks to the union. Headline should be "Union Protects Drunk City Bus Drivers." Bus driver who showed for work 'impaired' won't be fired

Oak, Did you conveniently forget about what happened in Maryland earlier this month? Maryland gay marriage bill dies with no final vote http://www.onlineathens.com/stories/031211/nat_798287281.shtml

RS, We do our own cooking at Summer Camp, bring our own food, even though the camp has a nice, big dining hall. They give us a discount on fees. We use dry ice, and it works pretty well even here in Georgia. There are a few lessons we have learned along the way. 1. Have additional equipment used just for Summer Camp - bigger, better cooler in addition to regular cooler, and a bigger food box (plastic) in addition to the one used regularly. 2. For better insulation (ice lasting longer), put large cooler on ground, stack smaller cooler on top, keep out of sun. We had one patrol keep