Zorn Packte

1) What is your position in the Troop? SM, ASM, Committee?

I'm a committe member in charge of nothing special but who does what needs to be done at the time. Maybe you could call me "Scouter at Large."

I don't have any trouble with moms in particular but I do have trouble with parents in general. I don't see a need for a parent to go on a camping trip unless he/she is a member of the troop leadership corps.

Too often, especially with moms, I see them "running interference" for their son. "That's too heavy, let me carry it for you." "You go play, I'll set up your tent." "I'll cook dinner, you guys go do something."

I think that a camping trip with 30 boys and 15 adults is a bit silly. It isn't teaching the scouts to survive away from mom. Once upon a time, I had a mom go camping with us and get livid when I told her that she really needed to bring her own tent and let her son sleep with his buddies.

If I could afford to donate a school bus to my troop, I'd do it. That way we wouldn't need so many parents to drive and fewer would find excuses to go camping.

Take your son camping away from Scouts. Let him show you what he's learned.

If you want to be involved with the troop, volunteer for a committee position or go get leader training and become an ASM.

Sounds like it time for a Kamikaze volunteer!

So I should crash my car into her home?

Are you a white supremacist? It really only takes a yes or no.

Are you a white apologist? A black supremacist?

Draw your own conclusions about me. You made the allegations, you are obliged to prove them. I don't care what you think.

If no one will talk to the "mother" no one can complain about her

I think that it would be easier to find a volunteer to kill her than to find someone to confront her.(This message has been edited by Zorn Packte)

So what I'm reading here is "what's done is done." Once a boy gets signed off and the BOR says "Ok," it's over. If the BOR was bribed, there was colusion or conspiracy, or whatever, there is no turning back. Just like a Presidential pardon.

The SM did say that he'd look into it.

The Advancement Chair got a bit testy and said that he considered it over and done.

Doesn't give you a lot of faith in the system :-(

My son is in Dr. Beado's new troop. He had "advanced" to within Requirement #8 of First Class within 4 months of joining his old troop. Does he know his stuff? Nope. My wife listened to him complete #5 for 2C: Identify or show evidence of 10 kinds of wild animals. How did he do it? At a patrol meeting he was asked to name 10 different animals. Who asked, then checked him off? The Scoutmaster! Needless to say, the new troop will redo lots of these requirements.

This is the sort of thing that I'm talking about. Although Super Mom probably wouldn't be that bad, she'd go on a walk and point out everything. "Look Bobby, there's animal stuff" Check!

I suppose that means that Assimov, a Biology professor as well as a sci-fi author, didn't understand the meaning of the word as well.

BTW, not all facts are data but all data should be fact.

I think that you are confusing the common understanding of theory with the scientific understanding.

Not really, I have degrees in Math, Physics and Mechanical Engineering. A postulate, hypothosis and a theory are all different animals. None are fact.

Theories remain theories until they are proven for all cases. Gravity is still not understood. Nothing about evolution has been proven for all cases.

I asked you on the other thread for a viable scientific alternative to the theory of evolution.

As Issac Asimov said about Einstein and relativity, it is only a theory. Creationism is also a valid theory because no one can disprove it. Scientific? What is science? Science is observing the natural world and drawing conclusions from your observations. We've observed the world and concluded that God made the world. That's science at its purest and as valid as an unprovable theory of evolution.

OK mom is a ASM. Is she trained?

Oh, is she ever trained. She's been through SMF and Woodbadge. Also has been asked to join the District Training Committee.

You'd think that she'd be a stickler for proper Scouting but I think that she has her eye on two Eagles for her sons.

"Go ahead, turn around and walk away. That's a classic response." So are you saying that you ARE a white supremacist? That's about all I can interpret from the response...?

See, still the classic response. If I don't yell out that blacks deserve special treatment and that being white is horrible, I must be a white supremacist.

Here's the deal . . . blacks don't deserve special treatment, Jews don't deserve special treatment, WASPs don't deserve special treatment. Got it? The only group that deserves special treatment are first generation Romanian-Americans (just joking there).

The black culture seems enamored with in self-pity. Look at Bill Cosby, called a traitor to his race because he's educated, successful and doesn't play the stereotyped black man. If I was black, I'd be offended as hell by the likes of Martin Lawrence and his cohorts that portray black men as sexually obsessed, illiterate, buffoons.

The Japanese think that America is filled with crime because they watch our TV and movies. What is a white man from a small town in Iowa supposed to think about blacks when is only exposure to blacks has been on the WB?

Got it?

Just because he has an "overbearing mother" is no reason to assuem the kid cant do whay he is suppsoed to, even though I have to admit I would also be suspicious.

Knowing mom and son, I would say that he may have passed many requirements by something akin to the Papal wave of the hand method. Maybe I'll ask him to lash something together for me on our next campout.

BTW, will anybody in the troop talk to the mother before his Eagle BOR?

I don't know if anyone has the courage.

I'm trying to give you the benefit of the doubt, but it seems like you're coming across as some kind of either white supremacist, or at way least anti-black.

If it's the first, I'd like to figure out a way to symbolically turn my back on you and walk out of the room.

Go ahead, turn around and walk away. That's a classic response.

Proclaiming, "Black is Beautiful" is okay but saying, "I'm proud to be white" is racist.

Blacks wears shirts that say, "You wouldn't understand, it's a black thing." If a white wears a similar shirt, it's racist.

Black commedians make fun of whites, Jews and Orientals on a regular basis but if a white Gentile commedian makes fun of blacks or Jews, its racist.

The list is nearly endless.

I think the analogy is apt; some members of Restricted clubs didn't give a second thought to belonging to a club that explicitly excluded Jews

What's wrong with restricted clubs? The Jews have always been able to form their own clubs and make them better. In most cities that I've been to there are exclusive black clubs, whites need not apply, but I've never seen any lawsuites over those.

Did the scout show any evidence he knew his stuff? Was the scout confident he had completed the requirements?

Outside of the BOR, does the scout show he knows his way around a campsite? If you toss him a rope and ask if he can show Tommy Tenderfoot how to tie a square knot, etc can he?

I wasn't on the BOR but I've been around mom for five years in Cub Scouts. She was a Den Leader then Cub Master. Her son managed to gain so many arrow points for Wolf that they went below his beltline. As a Webelos, her son managed to earn all 20 activity pins.

Quite often her idea ofr meeting a requirement is very different than mine. For example, if I'm teaching knots, I won't say that you know a knot unless you can tie it long after my instructional period. Her idea is that if you can tie it while watching her, that's good enough.

The problem is that not only is she intimidating (she could pull my head right off) she also takes on every job that no one else wants. So no one in authority wants to challenge her for fear of her quitting.

"I think your assessment of how justices are chosen by a president is not only overly cynical, but hopelessly simplistic."

I know how justices and judges are picked. Most, if not all political systems in this country are corrupt. Appointed judged are picked because the pickers like the way they do or will rule.

Congress is hideously corrupt, they make rules that apply to everyone but them. They sell their votes, they barter their honor to stay in office.

Local governments are constantly looking for ways to suck money out of the Federal government to promote empire building.

I was all a good idea 225 years ago but it has gone awry. The government is no longer accessible to the people.

The purpose of the First Class program as it is, is to allow the new Scouts to quickly gain some rank, and National has studies that show Scouts who gain First Class in the first year have higher retention and much better chances at becoming Eagles.

I guess that this idea is something that rubs me the wrong way. The goal of Scouting is not to produce Eagle Scouts and the success of a program should not be judged by the number of Eagles that it produces.

It seems that the road to Eagle has become just a series of ticket punches instead of the end result of a natural progression of a Scout.

Too often I hear parents telling their sons, "Do this, it will count for Eagle." What I really LOVE are the parents that get to talking about whose son is farther along to Eagle at the lowest age ("My son is ready for his project and he's only 13" or with the Scout in question it may be 12).

A Scout or Scouting program should judged by his attainment of the stated goals of Scouting, Character, Citizenship and Physical Fitness, not by what badge is worn on whose shirt.

I like liquid fuel. A fuel canister takes up less space than a propane tank and I'm sure it lasts much longer. Also, the idea of dragging an empty propane tank around irks me.

Oh, for the good old days when you could build a fire where ever you went.

Justice Black, Everson v. Board of Education 1947

That is only one man's opinion. The Supreme Court is comprise of men who are selected, not for their intelligence, but for their record of ruling in a manner that pleases the appointer of the moment. The whole system is flawed and like most government organizations, corrupt.

They were intelligent men, and they did: "congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion".

Let's try this one more time Boris since you seem to have trouble with English.

"Establish" means to start or found. So Congress can make no law regarding the starting or founding of a religion. "In God We Trust" on money has nothing to do with starting or founding.

I've queried both the SM and the Adv. Chair and they are both of the opinion that all requirements are met. But our BORs have had a history of just rubber stamping advancement and not really making sure any requirements were met.

WOW! Good questions. Now I got one. My wife I sit on several district committees and were presented with the blue district committee members patches and given silver shoulder loops. We were told that when we wear the district patch and silver loops, we can not wear unit numbers. Although I have seen SM's and ASM's who sit on district committees wear the silver loops with their unit uniform without the district patches. What is the correct way?

If you think about it, when you are working at the district level, you are not representing a unit so why would you wear a unit number with your District patch? However, as was pointed out, not everyone has the deep pockets to buy a half dozen uniforms or can justify it to their wife even though she may have 10 pairs of seemingly identical shoes.

I've seen people use velcro to attach patches so they can switch them at will. There are other methods that work as well.

As Brian (aka Merlyn) slips into insanity, he begins to rant. Screaming "it's unconstitutional," he is led to the electroshock chamber for treatment. Doctors hope that a few blasts of high voltage will cure him of his delusion that he is a constitutional scholar.

Next, they'll work on his fixation with 60's vinatage cartoons.

Face it, Brian, the constitution means what it says despite what corrupt Justices have proclaimed. The writers were intelligent men and if they didn't want the 10 commandments in the courthouse, they would have said so.

We had a BOR for a Scout last night who "completed" all of the 1st Class requirements. This guy is only 10 years old and it is within a couple days of 6 months of him crossing over.

I put "completed" in quotes because I'm not sure how he managed to do it all. His mom is ASM for New Scouts and I think that she played fast and easy with some of the requirements. For example, I think one of the requirements (my book is elsewhere right now) is to attend 9 functions other than troop meetings. For the life of me, I can't imagine how he did that we had a new scout campout, summer camp, a clean up day and he missed our "recruiting day." I have a feeling that his mom declared everything thing that they did during the summer "a scout function".

Other things too, like cooking for your patrol. I know for a fact he wasn't the patrol cook on the new boy campout and they didn't have any patrol campouts this summer but the family did go camping a few times so I'm sure she let him cook then.

Any suggestions? Should I just live with it or should I make a fuss?