wyomingi

I would not suspend the boy. I would suggest that, if he wants to stay in scouting, he should find another troop and then refund his registration.

We had a scout like the one described above. He left meetings without permission, hit other scouts, and was disrespectful to adults. His mother was mad because he was not a patrol leader. Last weekend on a campout I found out that one of his friends is a very nice kid and has a lot of potential. He was just being led astray by the other boy. If the first boy had remained in the troop we would have lost two boys.

I'm not sure the non-engineers here think all the engineering jokes are funny but I love them.

A young man was crossing a road one day when a frog called out to him and said: "If you kiss me, I'll turn into a beautiful princess".

He bent over, picked up the frog and put it in his pocket. The frog spoke up again and said: "If you kiss me and turn me back into a beautiful princess, I will stay with you for one week."

The man took the frog out of his pocket, smiled at it and returned it to the pocket. The frog then cried out: "If you kiss me and turn me back into a princess, I'll stay with you and do ANYTHING you want". Again the man took the frog out, smiled at it and put it back into his pocket.

Finally, the frog asked: "What is the matter ? I've told you I'm a beautiful princess, that I'll stay with you for a week and do anything you want. Why won't you kiss me ?"

The man said, "Look I'm an engineering student. I don't have time for a girlfriend, but a talking frog is cool."

I am confused. Does the BSA want to be a religious organization or not? In Seabourn vs. Coronado Area Council they said.

"Boy Scouts of America is a religious organization, association or society, or nonprofit institution or organization operated, supervised or controlled by or in conjunction with religious organizations, associations or societies within the meaning of the Kansas Act Against Discrimination, expressly permitted by the Act to limit the occupancy of its real property, which it owns or operates for other than a commercial purpose, to persons who believe in God or to give preference to persons who believe in God."

In 1998 Lawrence Ray Smith, Chairman of the Religious Relationships Committee said "Boy Scouts is an ecumenical organization which requires belief in God and acknowledgment of duty to God by its members"

Now after reading the messages above I think the BSA doesnt want to be considered a religious organization.

Have you ever been in an elementary school cafeteria? The boys sit with boys and the girls sit with girls. This starts at about age 8 and continues until the early teens. Boys and girls play separately all over the world. All BSA has done is go with what comes naturally.

If we could go forward in time about one hundred years we might see a Scouts of America with three divisions, Boy Scouts, Girl Scouts and Venture Scouts but not coed scouts. There would be some advantages to this such as reduced administrative costs, better purchasing power , and shared facilities like scout stores.

Prairie_Scouter,

I didn't mean to include you in my comment, hope you werent offended.

Yes, I am in Wyoming but about 400 miles from Jackson. I read somewhere that Teton County has the highest per capita income in the country. So many billionaires have moved in that the millionaires can't afford to live there.

Do you give a patch for cold weather camping? Is it true that in Texas they give out one for camping when the temperature falls below 32 degrees?

Prairie,

The Federal Equal Access Act requires schools receiving federal aid and allowing any groups to use school facilities to allow all. This includes religious clubs, gay clubs, atheists clubs and the BSA. The only exception to this that I can see is if the safety of the students was jeopardized. Please note that this is about using the school's facilities, not being sponsored by a school. They are two different things. Some people here can't understand that concept.

This has been tested in the courts by the BSA From the BSA Legal web site:

The Broward County School Board excluded Boy Scouts from using school facilities after hours, as many community groups had for years. After Dale, the School Board sought to exclude Boy Scouts as violating a Board nondiscrimination policy applying to age, race, gender, religion, and sexual orientation. No other groupswhich included churches, a youth orchestra, a service agency for senior citizens, and an African-American sororitywere excluded. The District Court held that the School Board engaged in viewpoint discrimination against Boy Scouts views, and granted a preliminary injunction. The School Board ultimately agreed to a permanent injunction and agreed to pay Boy Scouts attorneys fees.

Note the last sentence. Heads BSA wins...

A long discussion on earrings can be found here:

http://www.scouter.com/forums/viewThread.asp?threadID=87654#id_92811

A discussion of by-laws is here:

http://www.scouter.com/forums/viewThread.asp?threadID=95278#id_95291

I like think of kids with ear rings, mohawks, spiked hair, funny color hair and baggy pants as future eagle scouts.

I would send Merlyn information on FOS and ask him for a contribution.

Bob,

Your right. A milk can dinner is the western equivalent of a clam bake. We dont have large bodies of water, lobsters, or clams, but we do have Rocky Mountain Oysters. Theyre great breaded and fried.

Has anyone tried cooking in a pie iron?

This recipe was used at the Cheyenne Cowboy Symposium last year. It may be a little large for your needs. I would try using a meat thermometer put in the top. Be sure the steam can vent or you will have hot food flying everywhere.

Milk Can Supper

25 ears sweet corn, shucked (reserve a few husks for lining can)

25 medium red potatoes, scrubbed but unpeeled

3 pounds carrots, peeled and halved

6 medium onions, peeled and quartered (optional)

4 heads green cabbage, cored and quartered (optional)

50 Polish or for a spicier taste include some chorizo sausages

To prepare the fire, dig a shallow pit 8 inches deep by 20 inches wide. Place two cement blocks, which will support the milk can, on either side of the pit. Build the fire using about 10 to 15 pieces of hardwood (about 1-1/2 inches in diameter and 15 inches long).

When the embers are white hot, the fire is ready. (Continue to add wood little by little to maintain a slow, even temperature while cooking.) Place a thin layer of corn husks on the bottom of a clean, unrusted 8- or 10-gallon milk can to insulate the food from the fire. Place the potatoes in the can, then add layers of carrots, onions, corn, cabbage, and sausages.

If necessary, stuff the sausages into the can. Pour 6 cups of water into the can. If your can has a lid, place it on gently to allow some steam to escape. (This is very important as a lid that is jammed on may cause steam to build up and blow both the lid and the contents of the can out the top.)

If you do not have a lid, improvise one by placing a doubled sheet of heavy-duty aluminum foil over the top of the can and crimping the edges. Set the filled milk can on the cement blocks above the fire and cook gently for 1 to 1-1/4 hours. Add more wood to the fire as needed.

If the liquid in the can seems to be boiling away, add 2 cups of water. Empty the can into serving containers.

The ACLU doesnt define the 1st Amendment, the courts interpret it. When the ACLU can see a clear violation of the law, such as public schools sponsoring private religious organizations, they try to end the violation.

1) Charter Orginizations provide money. It may be minimal, such as the charter cost, but they do provide some monetary support.

2) The BSA is a religious organization. The courts have said so and the BSA has said they are ecumenical.

Chartering a BSA unit is giving money to a religious organization. It is also an endorsement of religion and discrimination on the basis of sexual orientation.

Ed,

The 1st Amendment guarantees freedom of religion, not government support of religion. Where in the constitution does it say that the government can give money to a private religious organization?

"Get R Done" is a phrase that has been made popular by a comedian called Larry the Cable Guy. He denies being racist, hateful or homophobic but posting some of his jokes here would be offensive. His humor appeals to 13 year old boys and rednecks but that's just mho. Judge for your self at http://www.larrythecableguy.com/bio.htm

The Department of Education has proposed a new rule (CFR108.6 c) that states:

Recruitment. Any group officially affiliated with the Boy Scouts of America or any other youth group listed in title 36 of the United States Code (as a patriotic society) must be allowed access to students, and student information, for recruitment purposes on terms that are no less favorable than the most favorable terms provided to one or more outside youth or community groups.

When this rule becomes effective schools will either have to ban all youth group recruitment or allow scouts. I predict new law suits.

If this is true it is more bad news.

Boy Scout council accused of inflating troop totals

February 24, 2005

MEDFORD, Ore. (AP) A Wyoming man has filed a lawsuit against a Boy Scout council in southern Oregon, alleging it forced him to resign when he uncovered that troop totals were inflated to boost executive salaries.

John Mangan, 62, is seeking a $296,000 judgment for lost wages and emotional distress.

Mangans case is the first reported instance of phantom Boy Scout troops in the state, said Victoria Cox, spokeswoman for the Oregon Department of Justice. The FBI has opened investigations around the country into similar allegations against the Boy Scouts of America.

Mangan discovered numerous Scouts who did not exist but had been identified on the councils books, according to his suit, filed in December in Jackson County Circuit Court.

I was shocked, he said Wednesday. After I found out about all this stuff, I was really disheartened to go out and raise money for that council.

The Crater Lake Council serves 10 counties in Southern Oregon and Northern California and lists a membership of 5,300. Mangan said seven phantom troops of about eight to 24 scouts each were on the books in Jackson, Josephine and Siskiyou counties.

Mangan says the district manager previously in charge of scouting membership acknowledged to him that the records were doctored because annual salary increases were determined by scouting participation.

After Boy Scout officials heard his allegation, the councils membership records showed a reduction of more than 600 scouts between 2001 and 2002, Mangan said. The biggest drop was in Josephine County, he added, from 942 youth to 703.

Mangan alleges that his investigation rubbed executives the wrong way, and he was told to quit or be fired in September 2003.

Mangan now works for the Boy Scouts in Wyoming. But he said he failed to find employment with the organization until January of this year because local Boy Scout executive Ed Weiseth falsely characterized him as an unsatisfactory employee.

Weiseth told the (Medford) Mail Tribune that he would not respond to Mangans allegations.

United Way of Jackson County executive director Dee Anne Everson, whose organization funds the Boy Scouts, said she called the local council office Wednesday after being contacted by the Mail Tribune.

She said Scout officials denied keeping ghost troops on the books.

Our board would ask for some answers ... because theyre donated dollars from people who trust us to do the right thing, Everson said.

Here's good source for prayers from many traditions:

http://www.worldprayers.org/index.html

If you click on celebrations or adorations you will get a random prayer, or you can use the search feature.

Some of my favorites are:

In striving to recognize the primacy of Fire and Light,

I feel kinship with my Zoroastrian brothers and sisters.

In striving to obey the Ten Commandments,

I feel kinship with my Jewish brothers and sisters.

In striving to be kind to neighbor and the needy,

I feel kinship with my Christian brothers and sisters.

In striving to be compassionate to creatures great and small,

I feel kinship with my Buddhist-Jaina brothers and sisters.

In striving to surrender myself completely to God Almighty,

I feel kinship with my Muslim brothers and sisters.

In the recognition that wisdom flows from enlightened masters,

I feel kinship with my Sikh brothers and sisters.

In remembering that serving people should be the goal of religion,

I feel kinship with my Baha'i brothers and sisters.

In my respect and reverence for Nature that sustains us,

I feel kinship with my Native American brothers and sisters.

In feeling that these and more are all paths to the same Divinity,

I feel kinship with my Hindu brothers and sisters.

In my love and laughter, joy and pain,

I feel kinship with all my fellow humans.

In my need for nourishment and instinct to live on,

I feel kinship with all beings on the planet.

In my spiritual ecstasy with this wondrous world,

I feel kinship with the Cosmic Whole.

universal reflection - v. v. raman - cape of good hope 1999

For each new morning with its light,

For rest and shelter of the night,

For health and food,

For love and friends,

For everything Thy goodness sends.

thanksgiving - ralph waldo emerson - 1803-1882

Threadjack!

If you guys don't stop getting along and having fun OGE is going to have to move this thread out of the issues and politics forum.

Who comes up with this stuff?

Maybe it was a patrol name.

CU in Boulder, Colorado has a student dining hall named the Alferd Packer Grill.

A news story that can be found here

http://www.nbc4i.com/news/4103397/detail.html

dated january 18, 2005 reported "The Central Ohio chapter of the Boy Scouts has pledged that it won't unlawfully discriminate against anyone in hopes of continuing to receive funding from United Way."

Does anyone know if this is accurate?

I was taking some boys on a short backpacking trip and noticed that one of the younger boys had a heavy pack. One of the purposes of the trip was to have the boys learn what to bring and what to leave at home. I discussed this with the boy and we examined his pack contents. He had more clothing and food than I could believe. When I asked why he said "my mother put it in". Despite his heavy pack the boy did very well on his first backpacking trip.

Back at the parking lot his mother greeted me and asked how her son did. I said that he did fine, but would have done even better if he had packed his own pack. She said he knew where everything was. We then discussed the heavy pack and how she had not really helped her son by over filling his pack. I think she got the idea.

I think this illustrates how adults (not just moms) doing things for the boys is sometimes not helping.

Blogger:

I see that you have an interest in the religions of our founding fathers. I recently learned that about what is commonly called the Jefferson Bible. The full title is The Life and Morals of Jesus of Nazareth, Extracted Textually from the Gospels. It is a compilation not a translation. Jefferson wanted to emphasize the moral teachings of Christ and deemphasize miracles.

The text can be found in English, Spanish, and German at http://www.angelfire.com/co/JeffersonBible/. It is also available in paperback.

I am very impressed by what you have done but do have one comment. Please add a disclaimer on your site saying that the opinions on the site are your own and not those of the BSA.

"activities of the members of the Boy Scouts of America shall be carried on under conditions which show respect to the convictions of others in matters of custom and religion..." - scout bylaws

If Scouting allowed pagans to become Scouts, would you expect me to respect the belief that trees are deities? Rooster7

Pagans can become scouts and yes, if a scout has a sincerely held religious belief I think you should respect it. You dont have to agree with it or accept it just respect it.

I have read many posts in the Issues and politics forum and have reached the conclusion that the BSA needs a comparative religion merit badge. Comments like Buddhists pray to Buddha and How can a person swear to uphold this 12th point of the Scout Law and still be polytheistic? show how little we understand each other.

What do Unitarians believe? With a little help from google I found the following on the Unitarian Universalist Association web site (www.uua.org).

We, the member congregations of the Unitarian Universalist Association, covenant to affirm and promote

The inherent worth and dignity of every person;

Justice, equity and compassion in human relations;

Acceptance of one another and encouragement to spiritual growth in our congregations;

A free and responsible search for truth and meaning;

The right of conscience and the use of the democratic process within our congregations and in society at large;

The goal of world community with peace, liberty, and justice for all;

Respect for the interdependent web of all existence of which we are a part.

As the philosopher Thomas Carlyle said "The religion of a man is not the creed he professes but his life - what he acts upon, and knows of life, and his duty in it. A bad man who believes in a creed is no more religious than the good man who does not.

Troops that are sponsored by a government agency to find a new sponsor or become an explorer post, or disband would you go away?