WDL Mom

Just got an email from my District Training Chair. She does have the video and the powerpoint! That makes me feel a whole lot better!

Any suggestions or advice would be apprectiated.

Thanks.

Hi All,

I have been working on becoming the Pack Trainer for our unit. I have been through the Trainer Development Conference last month.

I have been asked to help the District Training staff by leading the Tiger Specifics session in two weeks.

I agreed to help out, and asked for the relevant syllabus. What I received was a packet that I am pretty sure is out of date. It still lists the uniform as the orange shirt and doesn't mention the Blue option at all. There is no number or date anywhere on the syllabus.

I did not receive the video, powerpoint, CD or any other resources.

I have an inquiry into the District Training chair to find out what else is provided... I am afraid that the answer I will get back is "nothing"... The Training Chair is brand new to the position. I realize that this isn't the way this should run. I have taught for 18 years, I know I can do a good job presenting the material, if I have it!

I am willing to foot the bill if necessary for some of the training items. Would like to know which you feel are "essential".

Things I have:

Cub Scout Leader Book

Tiger Cub Handbook

Cub Scout Program Helps

Cub Scout Academics and Sports Program Guide

Things I don't have but think that I need:

Current Tiger Specific Syllabus

Cub Scout Leader Specific Video - AV01V013

Powerpoint - I can't find a specific number for this.

Handouts for each participant on CD - no number for this CD.

Things that would be nice to have:

Tiger Cub Den Advancement Chart 34715A

Pack Program Planning Chart 26-004F

Am I missing anything? Your suggestions are greatly appreciated.

Wish me luck!

Hi All,

Here is a proposed activity for my Webelos II den for this summer.

Visit a local certified commercial COPE operation.

* Participate in 7 low ropes team building activities.

* Slide down a 300 ft. zip line over a restored prarie area.

* Pan for gems and minerals.

* Wagon tour of the restored prarie.

My question is in regards to the Guide to Safe Scouting. The only thing I see in it regarding COPE that might pertain to Cub Scouts is:

"Units may participate in age-appropriate initiative games, but under no circumstances should attempt to construct low- or high-course elements."

So, am I ok with the low ropes? What about the zip line? I was unable to find any reference to the zip line in the Guide to Safe Scouting.

Any help or direction on where to check would be greatly appreciated.

I don't want to bring this up to the boys before I am sure that we can actually do the activity...

Hi,

I just did an introduction to Compasses with my Webelos I group last month. The Scout Shop sells an inexpensive basic compass game that I used. Basically you put out 5 or 6 stakes at specific locations in a circle. The circle can be in a gym, or a field. Each stake has a letter on it.

Then each scout or pair of scouts gets a list of compass bearings. They start at letter A go, 140 degrees and write down the next letter and so on. At the end, they check the letters that they got with an answer key. The boys get a lot of practice with bearings in a short period of time and they are in a fairly small area.

I used this as one station. At another station the boys worked on measuring their pace. At a third station we talked about how compasses work and I did the demonstration with the cork and needle. At the end of the meeting we had a search and rescue. They had to rescue a lost child by following a set of bearings and paces. Remarkably the lost children resembled various food items.... which we ate after all were recovered.

By having 3 stations, I only need 3 compasses (for the first activity) and managed to get 12 boys through all three stations plus the Search and Rescue in a little over an hour.

I will say that this was their first introduction to using compasses. I plan on using the Compass game as a gathering activity for later den meetings.

Have fun and check out the Belt Loop and Pin for this as well.

Lisabob thanks for the explanation on the age guidelines for Cubs transitioning to Boy Scouts.

Beavah: I find your comment interesting, sort of a reverse den chief...

In this case, a council is lookin' at things and saying, "Hey, we're seeing a way we might be able to be of better service to kids. Maybe if we encourage the slightly older 5th graders to hop into willing troops while they also finish up in cubs, it will build connections. Those boys might be more likely to continue, and they might pull their slightly younger pack-mates along.

I don't know if my Council thinks that this would help our Webelos to Boy Scout Transition or not. I don't have any numbers, but, I would think that the number of boys that could conceivable "dual" register would be small at best.

IMHO, the problem is that frequently in the Webelos II year, things are gradually grinding to a slow finish. This is my outside observation of our Webelos II dens over the past 6 years.

My plan for next year is to try to ramp up the outdoor stuff and reduce the "den meetings". This is where the Troops need to step up and help the Webelos Den Leaders who frequently don't have the experience/equipment to do these things.

My other thought was along the lines of how LDS advances based on age... Do they have a better transition rate due to this policy or is it such a different beast that the comparison isn't valied?

I appreciate your comments.

Sometimes this mode of communication is a bit vague. Lets see if I can do a better job clarifying.

My question was (I thought) quite simple.

Had anyone seen a program where a boy was registered with a Troop and also continued to work on his Arrow of Light at the same time?

Apparently no one has seen this, other than trying to help a boy whose Webelos den had dissolved.

My Comment:

"My son will be 11 at the end of this upcoming August which is the beginning of 5th grade for him. He will be an "old" 5th grader. My understanding is that he could join BS in the fall and skip his entire Webelos II year. Which would be tough for him to do with me being the DL:)"

Was intended to reply to Eamonn whose email suggested to me that once a kid is 11 he should be in Boy Scouts. It isn't true in my son's case. Though I agree with mtm25653 and John-in-KC that there is nothing sacrosanct with a February crossover and if the boy meets the requirements, and is ready he should go on to Boy Scouts.

mtm25653...I tried to imply tongue in cheek, that my son wasn't going on to Boy Scouts at this time. He isn't ready. And to be honest, he wants to be with his buds. Maybe I needed to apply more smileys...

Though I find "Are you a leader just to be a leader for your son?" a bit harsh and certainly unnecessary.

evmori... I am well aware of the correct spelling of Webelos. Had you read my second post, you would have noticed I managed to use it corrctly TWICE! Apparently I managed to hit a nerve.

I apologize for my lack or clarity and I would respectfully request that folks be a bit kinder in their responses. This form of communication more than other types requires it.

Hi,

I realize that this could all be rumour. I am not upset, more curious than anything.

I believe that our Webelos to BS transition was particularly poor this past year and this may be an attempt to address it.

My son will be 11 at the end of this upcoming August which is the beginning of 5th grade for him. He will be an "old" 5th grader. My understanding is that he could join BS in the fall and skip his entire Webelos II year. Which would be tough for him to do with me being the DL

I may check with my den and see when they all turn 11. Would be interesting to know how many kids this could effect. Though I don't see anyway for a kid to be registered and active at both levels. This sounds more like the LDS advancement where the boys move on their birthday, though I don't claim to have much knowledge of that program.

Gwd-scouter's situation sounds like a temporary fix to help a kid until they are old enough to register in BS. I am sure that this has probably happened in a number of places on an unofficial basis, not as District policy.

Hmmm, probably have to wait and see.

Hi All,

I was at a meeting and "heard" that our Council is considering the following:

Webelos II would be "allowed" to join a Troop as soon as they turn 11 AND they would be "allowed" to also remain with the Pack and finish up the Arrow of Light AT THE SAME TIME.

The idea being that the WebII's are getting bored and we need to get them into a Troop sooner.... Though, I am not sure how many kids this would effect.

I do not see how a kid can be registered in two different levels at the same time. Does anyone else's Council or District run this? How has it worked?

Hi,

Our school district doesn't do flyers in backpacks anymore. Not for outside groups or many of the school functions.

Instead they use email. They send out the fliers via email to the whole school list.

I like the idea of Little League, might also check out spring soccer.

We have never done a spring recruitment. Seems like our district waits until fall for some reason. They do allow Tigers at Day Camp, but we usually only have a handful, and typically they are siblings of existing scouts.

Hi,

For a day hike, I would try to keep it in the 2-3 mile range as suggested in the Outdoorsman pin. Trying to get some boys this age to hike 6+ miles would be like pulling teeth.

I agree that it needs to be more than just a 3 mile walk. Some things you could discuss during the hike might include:

Buddy system

What to do when lost.

Map and Compass

10 Essentials

Animal or plant identification

Leave No Trace

Pack a sack lunch or cook on the hike.

Choose a couple that are doable and fun!

Good Luck!

Hi,

I used the pamphlet this year with my Web. I den. I did pick and choose what we discussed in den. We used the center poster, that described the effect of drugs. Had the guys find the grossiest effect

of drugs on the body... they liked doing that.

The boys also discussed the possible drugs that they may be offered.

I did cover medicine and how it needs to be taken correctly and with adult supervision. We also did role plays using the NICE strategy to get out of situations where drugs are offered.

I did not go into a lot of detail about different categories of drugs, or specific effects. It is unlikely they would remember

all of the information anyway.

The boys did pretty well with what we did. I did send it home to finish reading with their parents (if they so chose). No major issues with it from either the kids or parents.

Good Luck.

Hi All,

I took the Trainer Development course this weekend in order to become a trainer for our Pack. My question is: how is this program run in other Districts? There are no districts in our Council that use pack trainers as far as I can tell. The District Training chair is new, and she is trying to get a handle on how this is run.

What courses beside Trainer Development is required? Is there any monitoring of the Pack Trainer by the district committee? Where does the Pack Trainer get the syllabus and training material? Our District Training chair bought some of the training material herself... That doesn't seem right to me.

In my mind, this should be like adjunct faculty. The district Training committee is the regular faculty. The adjunct staff can step in and help out with District training or perform training in the unit if needed. I think the Pack Trainer should have to check out the training material from the District. That way the district has some oversight on who is teaching what, when and to whom.

How does your District handle this?

Thanks for your help.

Hi,

Yes Webelos should do most requirements in den. However there are specific ones that HAVE to be done at home.

For the Citizen pin, boys are required to earn the Citizen belt loop... it requires the boys to chart chores for a week.

For the Fitness pin, boys are required to either plan a week's worth of meals with their family or record their meals for a week.

Anything that has to be done at home (especially something over a week) will end up with stragglers. I send home den notes and email reminders to the parents. I have even at the end of den meetings conferenced with the boy and parent regarding what the scout needs to finish.

It is difficult. You can't make them do it. I have four boys that have everything done for their Webelos Badge .... except the religious requirement #8. I will not do that for them. Either they do it at home or no badge.

Hi All,

Our topic at Roundtable this week was training. After the discussion, I had two questions about things that didn't seem to jive with what I have heard from other sources. I would appreciate your input!

1. A Baloo trained person is required to attend Pack camp outs. Pack submits a Tour Permit without the required Baloo person. The Council incorrectly issues the Permit. Something "bad" happens on the trip.

The Tour Permit can be "retroactively denied" by the council and then the BSA insurance would NOT be in effect.

2. Webelos Specific Training is only "good" for two years. So if someone took the training in the fall of their Bear year, they would have to take it again in the fall of their Webelo II year...

I think there are trainings that are recommended to be on a two year cycle... YPT and isn't Safe Swim/Safety Afloat required every two years?

Thanks for the help!

Hi,

I taught High School for 7 years. I wondered what in the heck those teachers were doing at the Middle School! Why if they would only do this and that, the problems we have would be solved! I have spent the last 12 years teaching Middle School. Now I KNOW what they do! Now if only those Elementary teachers would get on the ball...

The schism is natural, due to different programs and ages. The cure IMHO is building relationships. Relationships between the scouts and between the scouters. Sending a den chief to a Pack is a start. Scouters need to network across the program, not just in their "area". Is it easy? No. Would it work? I think it might. Look at Troops that have strong ties with a Pack due to having the same CO.... Could Troops be "assigned" a sister Pack to "advise and mentor"? Or would this be forcing the issue? Just some thoughts...

Hi,

Whatever you plan, keep them moving. They won't sit still for long. My guys like food, fire, building things, tearing things apart, any form of tag, capture the flag, or dodgeball.

At our last den campout we made marshmellow catapults for the engineer badge. Though we didn't make them like in the Webelos book. We used a mouse trap, big pink erasers, a plastic spoon and a whole lot of duct tape. It was amazing how long they shot marshmellows around the cabin.

Do a hike with a purpose, an astronomy hike, or a Geocache type hike, night hike to identify as many critters as possible.

I would agree that it would be best to keep the adults out of it as much as possible... What do you do with the Webelos Den Leaders??

Having things tie in with the Webelos Pins is nice, but, I would focus more on it being FUN!

Hi,

In our District, we finally put together a listing of all troops in the area and have mailed it to all Webelos II boys and their den leaders. The flyer also includes a checklist of the types of activities that the Troop has done in the past. Roundtable allows Webelos leaders to choose which session to attend... either the cub or the boy scout discussion, depending on what is of interest. Otherwise not much is done.

Haven't seen much done consistently on the Cub side or the Boy Scout side. It is pretty much hope they all finish Cubs, hope they bridge, hope they stay in Boy Scouts. My older son lasted 8 months before he quit. Mainly due to sports, but, also, I feel because he didn't have an "identity" with the Troop.

I think that the transistioning MUST be on both sides, starting with Webelos I. I am the Webelos I leader for my younger son's den. Things I am trying include:

Picking a den name and patch and yell.

Building a den flag.

Having the boys select the pin that they want to complete in den.

Using denners.

Having a den chief.

Going winter cabin camping and using a duty roster and the boys. doing the meal and activity planning.

Having the boys pick and plan a service project.

I am toying with...

Having the denners present the awards to their den mates at pack meetings.

Using jigsaw method and let the boys teach some of the items for various pins.

Trying to set up joint activities with a Troop.

IMHO Troops need to:

Provide an ADULT for the new adults to contact/explain things!

Have a PLAN to help the new boys connect and establish an identity in the patrol. Not just hope it happens.

Make the initial meetings the new scouts attend upbeat and fun. This should be followed by a great campout for them to get their feet wet.

Offer joint trips/activities for Webelos II dens.

I am really trying to avoid what happened with my older boy.

Hi,

I knew we weren't alone in our lack of committee. I also know that we need to do more targeted asking of individuals.

As the Web I den leader, I know my parents best, and I would feel comfortable asking them to commit to a specific task. I don't know the parents of the other kids nearly as well.

One suggestion I made to our CM was to have each den "run" a particular event. So that the parents for that den would be in "charge". The Web. II's would do Blue Gold because it includes their bridging ceremony. Web I's would run the Derby, because they have seen it done for a number of years. The younger dens would have activities that would be easier to manage.

CM didn't like the idea... I think the loss of control is an issue. Sometimes I feel that way myself. If I do it, at least I know it WILL get done and the way I want it....

Fuzzy... How does that go over requiring every parent to commit to something? Had anyone refuse? I think it is a good idea. It sure can't hurt.... They don't show up anyway. Maybe this would be a way to get everyone to buy in.

Thanks for the help.

Hi,

We also ran the Webelos stations seperately from the other Cubs. This past summer, the boys earned their Scientist pin, last year it was Engineer. Not sure what is up for this summer.

If we had 6 rotations for the day, 2 of the Webelos rotations were for the Scientist pin.

The difficult part was getting all the boys rotated through the stations. We had over 200 Webelos, and it took about a day and a half to get them through one station. Though with 5 days of camp we were able to cover all the requirements. Might have been a bit easier if we had a third adult to staff a third station.

The craft rotation focused on a larger project that would qualify for the Craftsman pin. The other 3 rotations were for swimming, archery and BB guns.

Hi All,

Our Pack has a committee that is so inactive, that it is basically nonexistent. Last 3 meetings have consisted of myself, (the Web. I DL) and the Cubmaster.

We also have a trained CC who is also our COR. We do have a treasurer as well.

We have monthly meetings and all parents are invited to attend and participate.

No one shows.

Events, campouts, advancements, BG, Pinewood Derby are all planned and run by the den leaders and Cubmaster. I know that this isn't "by the book", but, it is what we do.

How do you change this? We are so used to doing "everything" I could see it being difficult to give up the control...

Has anyone tried having a parent representative to the Committee required from each den?

It seems with my limited knowledge that Committees are more important at the Troop level, and not so much at the Pack.

Looking for suggestions to improve this situation.

Thanks.

Hi,

This was a first winter den campout for any den in our Pack, as far as I know.

Our Pack does tent camp fall and spring, but in the winter, it would only work on a den level due to the need for cabins. There is no way our Pack would have the appropriate gear to tent camp in the winter in the Midwest.

The cabin we had a heater and the boys were toasty all night. I was more comfortable in the cabin and playing outside than I have been at many of the cold, windy rainy fall/spring campouts!

I would encourage others to give it a shot!

Hi,

Your over achiever might check into the Religious Awards program. The program is done at home in conjunction with the families' church or religious institution. It took my son a couple of months to complete as a Bear.

Isn't there also a Scouting Family Award?? I vaguely remember seeing it in the Scout Shop... Anyone else heard about this, or had a scout go through it?

One other thought... this boy might benefit from being a denner for his Wolf den, with age appropriate responsibilities.

Good Luck!

My Webelos I den "survived" their first winter den campout!

Temps were in the mid 20's with about 3-4 inches of snow. We spent all day Saturday, Saturday evening and came home Sunday morning.

We sledded, captured many flags, built mouse trap marshmellow catapults and played games all night.

The kids really seemed to have fun.

They also:

Ran a duty roster - without complaint!

Cooked on a camp stove

Washed pots and pans

Hauled water

Went to the outdoor latrine

It was good. I am tired.

Hi All,

I have a Webelo I son, that insists that every patch he wears be on his uniform! He is currently wearing the Khaki shirt and has the Outdoor Activity award on the flap of the right pocket.

Can he also put a patch on the lower part of the right pocket in the temporary location?

He also wants to wear his Compass point emblem on the button as well!

To me it is a bit much... 3 patches in a very small space with one overlapping...

Is the Compass point emblem from the button considered to take up the spot for the temporary patch??

I suggested a patch vest, but, no one in the pack has one and he wasn't interested.

I guess I shouldn't complain, I have boys in my den that have earned awards and ranks, and they are NEVER sewn on the uniform. I even volunteered to help/show the boys how...

Thanks.

Hi fgoodwin,

In our Council in 2005, Product Sales were 27% of the Annual Budget, Direct Support was 24%. Both, I agree are to be considered "major" sources of income for the Council.

As for changing our presenter... I think we are stuck. The gentleman is on the Executive Board for the Council. He is actually a nice guy and a parent in our unit. As far as I can tell people in the unit like him. The presentation is unfortunately like being held hostage....

Our CM is a very nice guy and unlikely to rein the presenter in.