VigilEagle04

"If I'm at a Scout related event in coat and tie, I usually wear my Eagle Dad tie tac, as that is the one that gives me the most pride. I have about 10 different lapel pins I'm entitled to. Sometimes that selection is just random."

I understand that sentiment.

Our lodge used to be a one flap lodge, though in the beginning, there were different pieces. The very first flap had an ordeal piece, a brotherhood piece, and a vigil piece at the top. This was back when the lodge was founded in 1959, and it didn't last all that long. They went to a red bordered lodge flap in 1962 (our flap design has stayed the same ever since), and that was it. For a long time, you received one patch each time you received an honor. So if you were vigil, you would have three. You could purchase traders, which were very different, but it required service hours to be able to do so.

In 1983, the lodge made the change. Ever since we have had one flap for ordeal (white border) one for brotherhood (blue) and one for vigil (red). We also added a fourth one in 2000 for elangomats, it has a green border (and is by far my favorite). Anyway, we've never had too many issues with our system. One thing I don't like is (and this used to be a habit of mine) when you see a Scout or Scouter with a white border flap, asking them when we are going to see them come out and get their brotherhood.

Anyway, I wear one of my green border flaps all the time. No one knows what honor I have, other than that I've been an elangomat. To me, that's one of the greatest services you can perform, and I'm proud to say I've been one. I don't display the Founders Award, or anything like that on my uniform, just the elangomat flap.

Woapalanne: I've worn mine as a lapel pin as well. I usually go with my Eagle tie-tac and an OA lapel pin, either vigil or Founders. I love it as a conversation starter. Great for meeting fellow Scouts/Scouters.

When it comes to service stars and knot devices, I have them in my uniform box. I keep an old tool box around that has various uniform pieces. It's great for CoHs, when a Scout shows up without a necker, or someone breaks a slide or something. I always have extras.

Anyway, in my box are three sets of all the knot devices that go on my uniform, as well as a nice hodge podge of service stars and backings. I only ever wear stuff like that for CoHs and banquets and such, but I've learned over the years that having extras on hand is a good thing, and my Scouts appreciate it too when something goes wrong on their uniform.

emb21:

"We are speaking of small knot devices, small pins which are worn on the knot to indicate earning more then one award represented by the knot in different programs. At present, the knots devices are: Cub Scout, Webelos Scout, Boy Scout, Venturing, Sea Scouts, Varsity Scout, Commissioner, and District."

I've always known about the devices, as I have them for my youth religious award (earned it thrice, at different levels) and have been wearing them since my second one (though only on special occasions these days). Anyway, after all that, I get to my question, what is this district device? That is the one device you listed that I have never seen. I ask because as a District Committee member and an ASM, I'm curious.

"But the leaders did make it up to us as best they could: instead of issuing the BSA's WC, we got the Scouts Canada version. same design, just different background material (velvet)."

I have a couple of those lying about. Good times up there in Canada, eh.

Yeah, I saw that episode when it first aired a while ago. Too bad he didn't have any worth anything, but it was nice of Rick to donate some money anyway. Always great to see the influence Scouting has had on some people.

Eagle92,

I hadn't even thought about it, but you're dead on with the WC being optional. The member of the Venturing Committee I mentioned earlier, I just looked at the picture I looked at before and noticed he is not wearing a WC. Something I had never thought about.

Cleam,

In my troop, we wore it throughout our tenure as Boy Scouts, and I continue to wear the knot. While the AoL may not be as prestigious as the Eagle, or the Silver to many, it is the be all/end all of Cub Scouting. I am personally proud to show that I went through Cub Scouts and Boy Scouts, and achieved the highest rank possible in both, but that's me.

@camilam

"Finally, for the fellow that is wearing 21 knots, I believe that is a breech in uniform etiquette. If memory serves, I think that the most that can be worn at any one time is 9. So I would call him out on that. He can choose which 9 to wear, but I believe that it is only 9, although there are whispers that this may be expanded or changing."

There is no specific number given for how many knots to wear. Some point to older publications guiding Scouters to minimize things on their uniform for the reasoning to wear fewer knots, but there is no number. I know one of the members of the National Venturing Committee, he's a local dentist here. Last count on his uniform were 19 knots, and he's a very "by the book" type of guy.

Deacon, when I was a Scout, there were really only 4 knots that grabbed my attention, AoL, Eagle, District Award of Merit, and Silver Beaver. As I've gotten older, the Award of Merit and Silver Beaver stand out less to me, partially because I've seen some meaningless ones given out. Kind of funny how that all works out.

So yeah, call-outs are optional. We do our elections in the spring, and actually have our deadline set for April 1 usually. We try to achieve 100% unit visitations by then, lodge goal and all that. It gives us enough lee-way for the camporees in May. That's where we do the first call-outs, and we do one each week at camp as well. The Scouters have to know, as they are responsible for signalling to the team who is to go up.

We have our own ceremony, as do most. It's always fun at camp because we actually bring the ceremonialists in by canoe. It's a great effect seeing the torches skirting across the lake during the campfire. Anyway, tap-outs may have ended in 1989, but we did them up until at least 2001. I know I was tapped out in 1999. Now, we didn't tap hard, it was very light (unless you were like me and knew the person doing the tapping very well, in which case, it was hard). Then the name was called out after that.

We have a habit of little things like that, but we've always been selective about it. If the principal knew a candidate, they'd have some fun. Be it tap-outs, Ordeals, or Brotherhood ceremonies.

I went in 2003, and it was a good time. Lots of information on American Indian history/lore/craft. Seminars on ceremonies and dance were held as well though.

As with anything, it being the first time for an event, there were kinks and it was a prototype. All in all, it was an excellent time though. If nothing else I completed a breastplate, two chokers, and some other stuff there while there during my down time.

This seems like as good a thread as any to ask this question. Years ago (ok, so not so long ago, but it's been a while) when I was a lodge officer in the OA, one of the lodge members would give us all a nametag. It was brass (or some type of metal, it has a gold coloured finish though) and had an enamel OA logo on it.

Anyway, I have lost mine in the process of moving and everything, and I want to get a replacement. Sadly though, the gentleman who gave us these nametags has passed on.

Does anyone have any idea where these might have come from?

acco40,

Interesting that you talk about starting on the inside for some with a new row. I've actually never seen that done. It's always been centered or the outside.

"Vig,

I hear ya. Yep I wear 6 knots, and to behonest I am an anal retentive uniform nazi who actually takes off my knots and resews them so that my Eagle, AOL, and religious knots are always the first three. Everything else will come after those three for me."

I know a few people like that. People are often surprised at mine though, in that those three are always the bottom row. I tell them they mean the most, and they are the most important. The thing is though, I view them as representative of the foundation upon which the remainder of my Scouting career rests.

It's kind of a symbolic and sentimental thing for me, but it's just my way of doing things. Since there is no order of precedence for the knots in the BSA, to each their own.

I'd like to comment on Gary's post. That isn't always the case. You could have a youth, or an adult elangomat. We do not separate the youth and adults on the trail when we bid you spend the night alone. It may be different for some lodges and what not, so I'm not sure how it works for the particular lodge you are joining.

ScoutBox,

I definitely get where he is coming from. I will say, though, I could never go knotless. My three youth knots will always have their place. I understand why some people like to go knotless, but for me, I just feel like having those three on there say something to the Scouts and parents. I've been there, I stuck it out and made it, and so can you.

Jeff,

I think it's fun to keep a shirt around that has everything on it. I won't deny that it's a bit egotistical, but every once in a while it's a fine thing. I keep a long sleeve shirt with everything on it, and yeah, it looks excessive, and I'm sure it will get to be even more so over the years. I only break it out for special events, district/council dinners and the like.

Pretty much whatever you feel comfortable wearing. I tend to take the same approach Beavah stated, what's relevant. Two knots will always be on my uniform though, AoL and Eagle. Things like this though, I have the Scouter's Key for the District Committee, but not for any troop level position. On my troop level uniform, that knot doesn't exist (though my troop uniform has my AoL, Eagle, Youth Religious Emblem, and James E. West knots). Apart from the four on my troop level uniform, which may appear on all uniforms down the road, there are a couple others that may appear on all of them. In my opinion, awards like District Award of Merit and Silver Beaver are worthy of being permanent fixtures. Your training awards though? Not so much.

Just my way of thinking.

E92:

Explains why I'm not familiar with it as a current command, it's a jarhead thing. Go figure they'd have something like that. I know for sure I won't be using it anymore now!

"TWO" (yes, it is actually the number version) is a part of older D&C, that has remained in some commands, specifically when commanding troops to "uncover." A command typically has two parts to it (though some have up to four), a preparatory command, and a command of execution. The prep allows the people to hear what command is about to be given, and prepare for it. On the command of execution, the movement takes place. Some commands were only one word in some D&C standards, and those words would be used as a preparatory, and the word "TWO" would be used as an execution command.

Now, this is in no way a definitive answer. I have no reference as to an authority on the issue, but this is just what I have gathered from my knowledge of current day commands and how it could have fit in. The theories as to the salute being one, and the return to attention being two could very well be it. Me personally, I use present arms and order arms, as did my troop.(This message has been edited by VigilEagle04)

Here's my usual thinking on this, for meetings, especially those where I am going to be around district/council/area/region/national staff, I'm wearing the official pants. If not, if it's an activity, a service project, a camping trip, the official pants don't come along usually.

I'm not advocating not wearing a full uniform, but I just find there are other pants much more suitable than the official ones for non-meeting activities. I do try to match color as much as possible though. My goal is that at a distance, someone is not going to be able to tell the difference.(This message has been edited by VigilEagle04)

Gern,

I was thinking what you just said while reading through this thread. I am an accountant for a company that does a lot of business with the government. Government contracts probably provide enough money to pay for nearly all the salaries in the U.S. subsidiary of the corporation. Are we "tax supported?"

It's kind of interesting to think about, given my specialty is, you guessed it, taxes. Which brings up another question in regards to this whole thread. My entire job is researching, calculating, preparing, filing, paying taxes. Be the taxes income, excise, sales, use, value added, property, business personal property, real estate, business, gross receipts, whatever. Because all of my money is made by dealing with taxes, am I tax supported simply because of that?

I just want to say, I love you all for introducing me to this company. I am a big supporter of wool products like these, and I am very surprised I had not heard of them before.

Like many have said, there is no definitive way. We're not talking a military style, formal color guard, so you really don't have to worry about what regulations say according to FM 22-5 or the like. The U.S. colors remaining in the position of honor is really the only thing to take into consideration for a color guard like this. The rest of the details you can wing.