Venturer2002

I'm thankful for God, Scouters, family, friends, our Constitution, and leftovers!

I wasn't raised in a Roman Catholic family, so I wouldn't really know about the Mary/May-pole connection. I was aware, however, of its pagan roots as a solar celebration. That was precisely the reason why the R.C. church outlawed celebration of this holiday, and subsequently must have re-introduced it as a Mary festival.

As a Protestant, I'd still have qualms about its celebration in either tradition, but clearly the original post wasn't intended as Catholic-bashing, but merely an example of a pagan holiday I wouldn't wish to celebrate as a Christian.

I've been a member of a sick troop, and wish that I wasn't. The problem with not starting a new troop in your community is you'll effectively cut off the other boys in your area by ignoring the problem at hand: the need for a new Troop.

Start a new Troop, and in a few years you'll get bunches of kids, and you'll be doing one of the best "good turns" you can for both your son and your community.

instead of ignoring the problem, attack it. And furthermore, your district officials are totally correct in steering you clear of lone scouting when there is no need to. Just because your son CAN be a loner doesn't mean he SHOULD...the patrol system doesn't function with one kid and his momma.

I wouldn't think any unbeliever would WANT to celebrate the Birth or the Death and Ressurection of our Saviour any more than I would want to frolic around a may-pole!

Or it's not a Christmas Tree per se...

Christians celebrate Christian holidays, Pagans celebrate pagan holidays, and atheists celebrate themselves.

Cody,

Sounds like a great project! Make sure to check with your school to see if they don't have any resources (many already deal with suppliers of playground equipment). Another good lead for playground equipment would be your Town/Township/City 's office, they might have some people or phone numbers to help you.

Have Fun and continue your work!

God bless each and every one of you, and may all enjoy the fullness of his bounty through Christ.

"If you worship the One and Only true God then there is no 'god of idols'. Why do you refer to gods that do not exist? I don't think your wording is really what you meant. "

Actually, he's right , considering this scriptural passage:

"For YHWH your God is God of gods, and Lord of lords, a great god"

(Deut. 10:17)

In considering also the 10 Commandments (really many stuck together in similar groupings to help you remember them) think of numero uno: I Am The Lord Thy God; Thou Shalt have no other gods Before Me.

The One True God also said this on earth, as Jesus: "I am the way, the truth, and the light. None shall come to the father except through me" and I think that's more in line with what he was talking about.

classb.com has a great namebadge made similarly to the above reply, but they can greatly customize emblems and colors to match what you need.

I'm a Den Chief right now, and I was recognized at the Court of Honor, and the Pack held a Den Chief Induction ceremony. When I was trained at the council level the Pack was nice enough to pick up the tab for that, as well as the book & cords.

The BSA now fully recognizes the Activity uniform, as well as Troop uniforms, as suitable uniforms. That's not to say that Memorial day your Troop should shirk their so-called field uniform, but rather at summer camp they needn't be so hot all the time.

You can salute wearing the Activity uniform, Troop t's, etc. Sure makes the issue clearer in my opinion.

Firstpusk,

Evolutionary theory deals with creation outside of the scope of God, based on that alone it is an engine of evil.

I wasn't clear on your meaning about you preaching sunday, please clarify.

It seems to me that ScoutParent has made several wise conclusions.

1. Evolution supports the idea of "survival of the fittest" and champions genetic change which increases survival, genetic superiority if you will.

2. It is an established fact that scientists used such "evidence" during the 1940's in pre-war Germany to "cleanse" the gene pool of "lesser races" that would hinder the creation of a master race. For further clarification, read Meine Kampf (sp?)

To me these two pieces of fact turn the credibility of evolutionary theory on it's head. Eugenics and Evolution are inexorably linked, which precludes nearly anyone of religious convictions from subscribing to this idea.

Evolution, like many areas of science, is not infallible. As many have stated, Newton's "law" does not apply in particular situations.

The idea that the power of government stems from the people is the cornerstone of american democracy. This principle has been subverted by such institutions as the Electoral college, created so that dumb people wouldn't make stupid mistakes.

Another american institution, evolution, seems to be doing the same thing. Even though the general populace is outraged when evolutionary theory is preached, the outcries fall on deaf ears.

Evolutionary theory is not science, for it relies too heavily on faith for it to be a science. Faith you ask? Yes! Faith that there is no God. Faith that we WEREN'T created by God. Faith that we were once simpler organisms. And , yes, the faith that this process will continue.

Modern Evolutionary theory, and its offshoots known as planned parenthood, eugenics, & "social darwinism", are nothing more than the dogma of a failing religion. Nothing more than the feeble hope of man to transcend humanity. Nothing more than the serpeant's promise in the Garden of Eden.

For, as a religious teaching, this school of thought has no place in any academic institution, and should be confined to the bitter tirades of secular humanists and atheists.

(I already can hear people outraged at my use of the Holy Bible in this post, and for them I will pray tonight. Think of your replies as a prayer list :-) )

In my council the Order of the Arrow improves the summer camp, helps leadership development through higher training, and promotes the aims of scouting through Troop Representatives who, funny enough, represent the OA in the Troop.

Since the scouting program in British Commonwealth nations was structered somewhat differently from the Boy Scouts of America, you'd need to adapt the aims of your program.

We also drew on the rich traditions of "Native Americans" when formulating our program, maybe you could use the aboriginals?

Your ideas/principles are sound, as I've noticed that the greatest number of scouts in my area are lost during what you call venturing. The Order of the Arrow is called the "Brotherhood of Cheerful Service" and that's what works for us. Possibly the Aussie program would have a different focus.

Hope I helped you!

Atheism, as a belief system, has no place in schools.

There never will be a 100% politically correct public

school. Humans tend to use examples they've picked up

in their experiences as humans to further explain something.

Completely excluding other religious teachings is in itself

part of a religion. Because of this idea, the only alternative

is to offer up all religions on a single plate. But if you do this

how are ALL supposed to be represented equally, when there are such

things as religious minorities?

The current interpretation of the first amendment is the problem here.

When originally established, this amendment sought to protect a

fledgling government from being controlled by a religous body, or

controlling itself a religious body.

When asked "Do you consider yourself Christian, Jewish, Muslim, Other, or None of the above?" you have the ability to state your belief system. The same idea is

present in the Pledge of Allegiance. People who believe in one or more god shouldn't be offended, those who believe in God shouldn't be offended, and those

who raise men up to the ranks of deity shouldn't be either.

I consider myself to be a "tolerant" person on many issues, but tolerance doesn't mean accepting a belief as your own. I don't find a problem with atheists following their own belief system, but what I have a problem with is people imposing their own beliefs on me, which is exactly what's happening.

In no way did I attack science.

What I stated was that Merlin must have been doing what Christians & Jews have done for millenia; interpret science within the scope of his own faith.

Faith? Atheists have faith? Yes! Because humans are (at least from what I've read) hard-wired to search for and accept some sort of deity. Many turn to God, and others to false gods. When people reject belief in deity, they themselves contradict their principles by elevating humans to god-like status.

For, when all gods are gone, and God is rejected, where else is there to turn but humankind?

Webelos was the best of all Cub Programs!

When my mom was the den leader (Tigers to Webes)

she let the boys decide things,

we didn't use the official "denner" and "assistant denner" titles, but had similar offices.

For those that say that Webelos is supposed to be run 100% by adults, you're dead wrong. Webelos IS a transition program into the other programs of Boy Scouting, and is meant to prepare you for bigger stuff. At least that's what Council Den Chief Training staff told me ;-)

Look at the Webelos plaid pattern, that pattern incorporates blue, gold, kelly green, and red. These colors symbolize Cub Scouting, Venturing, and Boy Scouting. Webelos is meant to tie it all together for a young audience.

Just remember, keep their attention by having a gathering activity at the beginning of each meeting. The Den Chief Trainer told us that she personally had 4 cubs unscrew her toilet from the floor and tried to lift it one of the first meetings when she asked them to wash their hands.

The phrase "separation of church and state" is attributed to Thomas Jefferson, a slave owner, adulterer, and theist. Do any of you agree with adultery or slave ownership?

Because the statements he made were never written into law they are just that, personal statements. Not one place have I read that there is a "wall" between Church and State. Because of this I can only stand to believe that in this statement Jefferson abused his authority, acting as if he were in charge of the United States, when actually he was only furthering his own causes.

Re-interpretation of this part of the constitution has lead to many degrees of debate. The Government has no authority in matters of theology, likewise the various religious bodies should in no way act as Government officials. The English monarch is the "Defender of the Faith" in that country, and as such is the head of the Church of England. Mainly, as others have so correctly stated, this portion of the constitution was written in to avoid the English situation that they so greatly loathed.

The phrase "under god" can mean what you want it to, whether it be the God of Abraham, Allah, any Buddha, Zeus, or even man. Man you say? Yes! For the only logical choice when the afterlife isn't in the picture is for people to institute themselves as "gods" and that is the real heart and soul of this debate, let us not forget it!

According to Merle LeRoy science is all based on theory, and mathematics is the only subject with such formalities as 100% accurate laws.

If this is the case, than why do you claim that creationism is bunk? Based on your own statement, you cannot without a doubt prove to me that C-14 dating is 100% accurate, that humans evolved, or that your theory is correct.

Because of this, you must be operating under your faith. I reached this conclusion based on the following principles:

a) the ideas you base your opinions on are, according to your own statements, unprovable.

b) because you cannot prove your statements, you must have formed your convictions based on the faith that they are correct.

c) this translates into the fact that you, a self-proclaimed atheist, are indeed a theist of some sort.

For all those questioning history, how about the issue of William Fakespeare? Many still insist that it really wasn't Shakespeare, but really Christopher Marlowe, who wrote the body of his work.

The reason that no history book will be correct is that humans wrote it. The only 100% historically accurate account of historical events is the Bible, both Old and New Testaments, as they are the revealed word of God.

Just as a little note to all on this thread:

Pedophilia has little if anything to do with being a fruit or not. Pedophilia is an unnatural attraction to children of either sex, the fact that boys tend to be molested more often than girls is just a sad bit of coincidence, according to psychologists. In fact, many pedophiles appear to be heterosexuals and are respected members of their community.

Homosexual men and women are attracted to people of their gender and legal age. Even though I personally feel homosexuality is an abomination, I don't want to lump all perverts in one category.

BobWhite,

The Guide to Safe Scouting could be interpreted in such a manner as to classify this as a bullying incident, which by its very definition is a threat of force.

A scout threatening someone with an ax if they didn't shut up would be judged based on the possibility of danger, not the actual acts commited thus far.

Clearly he stepped over the line, let us not lose that. I believe that this thread was intended to bring attention to the double standards used in judging scouts by certain forum posters. What Bob White, OGE, and others have posted only seems to further prove Yaworski's case.

(This message has been edited by Venturer2002)

Old Grey Eagle:

Methinks that you might need to study some vocabulary. Your statement that your son wasn't threatening anyone is entirely incorrect; here is Merriam Webster's definition:

1 : an expression of intention to inflict evil, injury, or damage

2 : one that threatens

3 : an indication of something impending

Also based on the Guide to Safe Scouting, his conduct was entirely wrong:

"If confronted by threats of violence or other forms of bullying from other youth members, Scouts should seek help from their unit leaders or parents."

This clearly was a "violent" act, and also a form of bullying.

Nowhere does it say in the SPL handbook that bodily fluids, or the threat to use them, are a leadership technique. Instead, the Guide to Safe Scouting condemns such acts, and turns them over to the discretion of the Unit leadership.

If I didn't know any better, or didn't know how to use my resources, I would look at such an example as acceptable. Clearly the Guide to Safe Scouting states otherwise.

Those who say "he wasn't gonna use it" should go on the road, performing at carnivals, for clearly such people must be psychics. Nowhere in the given situation were we informed of a contingency plan should the threat not yield the intended result.

Do any of us know if he would have? Of course we don't.

The good Doctor could probably elaborate as to the health risks associated with this particular threat, let alone the unpleasantness.

BobWhite mentioned that theft of property was unacceptable, should this bag of urine burst on his victims, he could have ruined clothing or damaged equipment.

His feckless (not reckless) behavior clearly put others at risk, and should not be tolerated, as doing so would go against the program set forth by the American Scout Movement, the Boy Scouts of America.