Troop185

First, let me say, I have never been to the Northern Tier.  However, I have been canoeing (and portaging) in Northern Ontario for close to 30 years.  One of the main reason, I have arthritis in my neck!

I own 5 canoes, 3 aluminum, 1 fiberglass, and 1 kevlar.  I have custom made ( by me) yokes (with padding) on all my canoes.  The aluminum canoes are 17 feet, and weight around 80 pounds, the fiberglass is 18 feet, 65 pounds, and the kevlar,16 feet, 44 pounds.  Also, my lifejackets have padding around the neck, to help with portaging. 

We always had one person carry the canoe by himself.  That is why we had nice yokes.  It really is easier with one person, especially going around and under, trees.  I would guess Northern Tier expect you to carry them with two people.  And they will probably tell you to tie two paddles inside, if you want  a yoke.  This takes a bit of time, at each portages.  But it does work, if you have some padding for your neck.

The Kevlar canoe does not handle rocks well.  Your scouts would have to be very careful not to put holes in the canoes. I would not recommend them for a river trip, but if you are careful, they are good on lakes (and portaging).

You do not have to worry about damage with the aluminum canoes, but they do not glide over rocks well, but like to "grab" them.  Sometime on river trips, I have put a coat of car wax on the bottom to help with this.  And of course, they can get real hot in the sun.

All in all, I would just go with the aluminum canoes, and save some money.  You might have to take an extra trip on each portages, but you would not have to worry about damage to them.  Fiberglass is also good, but the stronger they are made, the heaver they get.  I know some of the rental places use Old Towns Canoes, which you cannot damage.  But they weight more than the aluminum canoes.

Best wishes to you.  Some of my best scouting memories, are from canoe trips in Northern Ontario!

Years ago, when I was a Webelos Leader (and Assistant Scoutmaster), the Scoutmaster's son-in-law, was a Navy Seal, station at Selfridge Air Force Base.  Selfridge is about 30 miles from us.  For a year or so, he became an Assistant Scoutmaster in our troop.  I invited him over to my house, to talk to the Webelos about his training, etc. 

His normal daily schedule was to rise at 5:00 a.m., swim 8 miles in Lake St. Clair by himself (he told me - he had a beeper in case of problems); run 12 miles, shoot 100 - 200 rounds or so, on different weapons; take a shower / eat breakfast, and then teach hand to hand combat on the base, during the day.  One of his other jobs was to recover dead bodies, in the bottom of Lake Huron, and other large lakes.

The Webelos did not have any problems coming up with questions to ask!  I do not remember anyone moving for over an hour, while the Navy Seal told us his stories.

One of mine worst experience, was in a out house in Ontario.  I had been out for a week with the scouts, wilderness camping / canoeing in Lake Superior Provincial Park.  In the wilderness sites in the park, they have a 'boom boxes' to sit on.  It is out in the open woods, but it is nice to have a toilet seat to sit on.  You have to try to keep the bugs off your butt, and if it is raining, you can pull your rain pants over your regular pants and underwear, to try to keep them dry. 

After a week of wilderness camping, we stopped at a tourist site in the park - the Indian Pictographs.  It was raining, and I had to use the toilet, and there was an out house.  Unfortunately for me, the roof leaked, and all the rain was funnel right into my lap.   It would had been a lot better, and a lot drier, to just be out in the open.

Some of our cub scouts went to a District Day Camp this past week.  I only talked to some of the Webelos parents, but they said they had the scouts lay on a mat to shoot BB's Guns.  Each scout got one shot, then they had to re-load.  One bb at a time!

Boy, were they excited.  I do not think any of them will be going back to Day Camp next year.

eagle90:  You are the man, if you did 52 miles in 3 days on the Manistee River.  There is not that much current! 

The water was up, due to the rain, the week before you were there.  I had to take some 1st yr. Boy Scouts off the Pere Marquette River, because of the high water level.  Usually, the water level is low in June.  They were kayaking, and two flip in the first 300 yards.  We had to rescues one with a throw rope.  He was heading into a tree branch, where someone dock had been wash down stream.  It was dangerous. The next day, they did 13 miles on the Pine River, with very few problems.  The rain did not seem to affect the Pine.  it was fast, but normal.

I was back up north this last weekend, when you were there.  The water levels were almost down to normal.  I has another scout group with me, and they had no problems on the Pere Marquette.  So you never know?  I am glad you had a good time.

Years ago, one of my favorite scout, move to another city, and join another troop.  We invited him on all of our high adventure trips.  When he returned, everyone was always glad to see him, because he was a great kid, and a good worker.  Finally we lost contact with him - he Eagle, and moved out of state.

At present, I have some scouts that have camped with us as Webelos, and join other troops.  One scout has gone with us on trips to Ohio, Kentucky, and Ontario (from Michigan).  7 scouts from a small troop,  join us last year for a trip to Ontario, and this year, 5 from this troop, went with us to Gettysburg.  Two of their scouts are going to summer camp with our troop. 

I figure if they are not going to give you any problems, why not give them the experiences of camping with your group?

Another old story for your scouts:

I attended a public school in 3rd - 6th grade back in the mid 50ths, and was a member of the safety patrol 4th through 6th grade.  In 5th and 6th grade, I was assigned an busy intersection with an retired adult, who was the safety officer.  The intersection was about 3 city blocks from the school, and then another 4 blocks to my house.  I always rode my bike to and from school. We would sit in his car, talking and eating popcorn, waiting for the kids to show up (no one worry about 1 on 1).  I enjoy talking to him, and I think, he must had liked me (he always brought the popcorn).

In 7th grade, I switch to a Catholic school, and there, the safety patrol was 7th graders.  I was tired of doing it, and said I would be a substitute for the safety patrol.  Two of my friends, were the Captain and Lieutenant of the Safety Patrol, and they would let me sub anytime I wanted to get out of school early. One day, someone reported my two friends for jay walking.  I could write a book about the 7th grade nun, but needless to say, she was not happy.  Our classroom was on the 2nd floor, and she took both of my friends, and actually, threw them down the first flight of stairs.  "Now you go back to that intersection, and walk across the street, the way you were taught to do!"

  There's always another weekend.

Not always in a large troop.  We had an Eagle Ceremony last weekend, one next weekend, and one the following weekend.  We had two Life Scouts present their Eagle projects at the Committee Meeting last night.

Good luck in going to everything! ( I am going camping with the New Boy Scouts, and then the Webelos in the next couple of weekends.)

A story for your scouts:

My 1st wilderness trip, as a leader was on the Manistee River in 1968!  I was the 22 year old Program Director for a YMCA camp,  We had an Honor Camper Program at camp, and I invited the participates to join me and another counselor, for a canoe trip after the Summer camp season was over.  The YMCA pick up the cost, which was not much.  Six 11 and 12 years old campers return, so we had a total of eight people, and four canoes.

We paddled from Tippy Dam to Lake Michigan, about a nine hour trip.  We took 5 days to do it - a lot of swimming and fishing, and not too much paddling.  As you can image, with honor campers, the kids were a lot of fun.  Near the end of the trip, we paddled right through  Manistee City, and come out at Lake Michigan.  There is a Coast Guide Station there, and they told us: "Is the Red Flag is up, do not go out into Lake Michigan - small craft warnings!"

As it turn out, there was a small craft warnings, but the Coast Guide forgot to put up the red flag.  We kneel down in the canoes, paddled around a big pier, and let the waves takes us back into the beach.  The kids had a blast, but I was scared!  Back in those days, you could just camp on the beach, which we did; and got picked up by the YMCA the next day.

 Some portages are only 30 seconds long and can get backed up with several crews waiting to cross. When it's your turn, everyone behind your crew expects you get out and move out fast. Not a lot of time or space on those entry points to change shoes, but we have not tried it either.

 

 

Barry

I am glad I live in Michigan, and can get into Ontario, north of Sault Ste. Marie is about 5 hours driving time. 

The last time we did an Ontario river canoeing trip, we took the Agawa Train, got off, and did not see anyone else for a week!  No problems with permits, or having to rush through a portage, or worrying someone is going to take the best campsite. 

I have not been to Ely, but have canoe Northern Ontario (Wawa area) for the last 30 years. I wear old tennis shoes with wool socks in the canoe, and on portages up to 200 meters.  Over 200 meters or so, we change into dry socks, and put on our backpacking boots.  We are in and out of the water a lot, and do a lot of lining of the canoes through rapids.

Gee mattman, that story would have gone from good to great, if you would had said "that scout in now my son-in-law!

Back in the 50s', when I was a 1st year Boy Scout, we went to "summer camp" at a field next to the Scoutmaster cabin.  We dug a big latrine, with a big tent over it.  It really smell!  One day we went into town, and a couple of the scouts bought World War II gas mask.  They try to rent them to the other scouts, before they went into the latrine.

I was fairly homesick most of the week.  For some reason they needed someone to climb up a really tall tree.  I enjoy climbing - I use to climb up telephone poles all the time.  Anyways, I climbed it, and got whatever they wanted.  Everyone was real impress with how fast I could climb.  I wasn't homesick after that!

I am glad you son had a good experience.  It is always good to get the Webelos out to a scout camp, so they know what the troop is talking about, when they becomes Boy Scouts.  I do a campout with the Webelos every summer; and we always stop by the Boy Scout Camp, to visit on the way home.

You are right about "hands on".  This past Saturday, a group of Webelos were walking by me, heading to the fire ring.  The Webelos Guide said they were working on the Outdoorsman Activity Badge, but he did not know if they just needed to show how to build a fire, or if the scouts should light it.  I turned to the Webelos as said, "Do you want to light a fire?"    Well, you know what they said!

Last year, the Bear Leader from our feeder pack, came out to the Saturday night campfire, with his family.  He had a great time, and was back camping with the 1st yr. Webelos this year.  I thought that was a great idea, and invited the entire Bear Den to come out this year, for the campfire.  No luck with them, but will try again next year.

We just completed our eleven Tenderfoot Weekend, and six Webelos Campout.  I thought an update on this topic might encourage other new to the forum, to try it with their troop.

For the first time in eleven years, it did not snow or rain at Tenderfoot Weekend.  We had 52 spent Friday night, and 85 on Saturday night, including 5 from our Venture Crew.  Last year, the Venture Crew came out and did a Flag Retiring Ceremony at the Saturday night campfire.  This year, they came again and most of them spent the night (like I said, the weather was great.)  They do a great job with the retiring ceremony, and it is good to see some girls.

We had 14 Webelos this year.  My grandson and a buddy came 85 miles to join us, for the Webelos Campout (thanks to Nana).  The adult Grub Master for the Grump Patrol, for the first, nine Tenderfoot Weekend, came on Saturday to help out.  He has moved about 250 miles away. His son, a Eagle Scout and college grad. could not make it this year.  He was at the first 10!  And the Grub Master for the Webelos, has been doing it for all 6 Webelos Campout.

This year, only 5 of 12 new scouts completed the requirements for Tenderfoot, by Saturday night campfire.  Last year was a record: 15 out of 15 new scouts, and they are all still with us, except the one scout that move to the other side of the state.  Six of them were part of the Leadership Scouts this year, for the weekend.

 

 

Example: I saw that two of my Scouts had pitched their tent in the dark and had left the stuff sacs, pole/stake bag, and various other things lying around camp until well into the next day. Instead of making a show I just took both Scouts aside and explained that the tent belonged to the Troop and asked them if that was how they treated their own stuff.  No one laughed at them and they understood--through my gentle reminder--that they should take more care with the gear and not leave things out to get wet, lost, or damaged.

Before I got involve with our troop (about 40 years ago), a new scout went camping with the troop.  He wore tennis shoes and blue jeans, and did not bring anything else.  He left his tennis shoes out of the tent when he went to bed.  It snow that night!  That was the end of his scouting career - and his mother work for the BSA Council.

"But that was an event focusing on one MB.  These "fairs" and "universities", which I have never attended, where they do multiple badges, don't sound like a good idea."

Years ago, when my son was a Webelos (he is 39 now), our district had a merit badge day.  The original idea was to have this at the end of September, so the scouts with partials merit badges from summer camp, could find a counselor to finish the badge.  It became a joke.  Scouts would come home with 3 or 4 merit badges in one day, without doing any previous work on the badges.  Our district finally did away with it.

I work out there for about 5 years, as an Athletic Merit Badge Counselor.  The scouts had fun working on the requirements, but I think I only signed off on one scout, in the 5 years, and he has almost everything done before he seen me.  You need a track & field area, pool, etc. to complete the requirements, and we were at a Boy Scout Camp. 

The year my son was a Webelos, I drove home for lunch, and took him, and two other Webelos back with me.  I told the Webelos, all wearing their Webelos Uniform, to walk around and see what the Boy Scouts were working on.  Just for future reference, when they became Boy Scouts.  They were gone for about two hours.  When they came back, my son said, "Aren't you going to congratulate us, we all earn coin collecting merit badge!"  I

It seem that the 3 Webelos, sit down at the table with the counselor, and some Boy Scouts.  My son was into coins, and answer a few questions.  The other Webelos kept quiet.  The counselor gave everyone the merit badge!

Thanks to Scouts Mom Web Site, I found my answer:

1.  Create a hike plan
2. Assemble a hiking first-aid kit
3. Describe and identify from photos any poisonous plants and dangerous animals or insects you might encounter on your hike.
4. Before your hike, plan and prepare a nutritious lunch. Enjoy it on your hike, and clean up afterward.
5. Recite the Outdoor Code and the Leave No Trace Principles for Kids from memory. Talk about how you can demonstrate them on your Webelos adventures.
6. With your Webelos den or with a family member, hike three miles (in the country if possible).
7. Complete a service project on or near the hike location.
8. Perform one of the following leadership roles during your hike: trail leader, first-aid leader, lunch leader, or service project leader.

Our Boy Scout Troop is thinking about offering a 3 mile hike and campfire, for the Webelos in our area.  [We do a Webelos Campout, at our Tenderfoot Weekend in the Spring.]  We thought this would give us another contact with the Webelos, in the Fall.  We want to do the hike at our troop meeting place (a county sportsman club, with lots of acreages), on a troop meeting night.  Some of our older scouts would hike with the Webelos.  At the end of the hike, they would come out of the woods, to a campfire with the rest of the troop.  And I would think, there would be some food.

It is always an attraction for the Webelos Leader, if his Den will complete some requirements.  Our scouts are thinking of it, as another recruiting opportunity.

If our scouts decide to try it, I will let you know how it goes.

Can anyone tell me, in the new requirements, if there is still a Webelos 3 mile hike?

Could your son's troop, join with the troop that has 15 scouts? That would be a win for both of the troops.

I have not done the Au Sable, since I was in college. A beautiful river, but not like the BWCA. Any Michigan river in the Summer, is like playing bumper boats on a weekend. Plus you have the general public, drinking, etc. If you can go mid-week, you will enjoy it more.

The fastest river in the lower part of Michigan, is the Pine (class 1 & 2). I have a cabin in the area, and I usually take the new scouts over for a day, on a Friday in June. They mostly kayak, and canoe in the front seat, while the adults are in the back of the canoes. Years ago, I did a two night trip on the Pine, with a group of youth. I only know of one campsite in the lower part of the river. Again, ok during the week, but not on the weekend.

You can extend the trip, by portaging around Tippy Dam, to the Manistee River. The Manistee is a nice river, but is slower than the Pine. Also, the Pine is spring fed, and cold. It feels good, when it is about 90 degrees!

I have not done the Au Sable, since I was in college. A beautiful river, but not like the BWCA. Any Michigan river in the Summer, is like playing bumper boats on a weekend. Plus you have the general public, drinking, etc. If you can go mid-week, you will enjoy it more.

The fastest river in the lower part of Michigan, is the Pine (class 1 & 2). I have a cabin in the area, and I usually take the new scouts over for a day, on a Friday in June. They mostly kayak, and canoe in the front seat, while the adults are in the back of the canoes. Years ago, I did a two night trip on the Pine, with a group of youth. I only know of one campsite in the lower part of the river. Again, ok during the week, but not on the weekend.

You can extend the trip, by portaging around Tippy Dam, to the Manistee River. The Manistee is a nice river, but is slower than the Pine. Also, the Pine is spring fed, and cold. It feels good, when it is about 90 degrees!

~~Oh, and Troop 185: I trust that was not only you and the new Scouts? Sounds like a neat intro to Scouting , WITH appropriate YP stuff!

What did I ever say (write) that would make you think, I would every go by myself. That would be crazy. In fact, it is an interesting story about this trip. It was scheduled for June, but got push back one month.

The weekend before the Boy Scout trip. I was spending Sunday night, at the Nordhouse Sand Dunes with a group of Webelos (5 Webelos, 1 Boy Scout, and 3 other adults - including the Webelos Leader.) We were backpacking back to the vehicles on Monday and returning home, and the Boy Scouts were backpacking into the dunes on Wednesday. So to save me some work (I though), we did not take down two of the tents – one for the scouts, and one for the adults. [i had done this before, and did not have a problem. The Nordhouse Sand Dunes is the only federal wilderness area in the lower part of Michigan, but does not have a lot of traffic, during the week.] I only had 4 new Boy Scouts coming on Wednesday, and another Assistant Scoutmaster. The scouts were small, and could all fit into one tent.

The SA was going to Philmont later in the summer with his son, and was excited about doing the backpacking, to help with his conditioning. That weekend, he was leading a canoeing trip with the Boy Scouts, and developed an infection on his leg. He returned on Sunday, and called my wife to give us the bad news. Of course, I could not be reached, as I was at the sand dunes. I was over 100 miles from the dunes, on the drive home, when I got the news.

I cancelled the June trip for the new Boy Scouts, and then drove back to the sand dunes by myself on Tuesday, in a rain storm. (I put 475 miles on the van that day.) I hiked in with an empty backpack, and took down the wet tents in the sand, and backpacked back to the van. The only good part, there was a high school youth camp, coming in for the night. They did not know where to go, so I was able to help them out.

The S.A. had a bad infection, and had to cancel out of going to Philmont, and could not come up to my cabin in July. One of our committee members, an Eagle Scout, joined me for the trip; plus we picked up two more scouts, and the guest youth, that could come in July. One of the dads also a committee member, could come up in July, so we had 7 youth and 3 adults.

By the way, the CM and SA are both in their mid 60’s, and I am turning 70 in two months. We have been around this scouting business for a long time, and know all the Youth Protection regulations.

One troop brought in some twine, and had the Webelos make a rope. They let them take a piece of the rope with them.

Last year, one of my scouts had a hot glue gun, and was making neckerchief slides for them. My idea this year, was to have some cookies with the troop # on them. I like the idea of giving them something with our troop # on it; even if they would eat them up. Unfortunately, we did not have the time to make them (maybe next year).

I am from Michigan, and do not know anything about the Columbus area, BSA. However, every 2 - 3 years, we take a trip down, around Columbus, about 65 miles to Hocking Hills State Park, in Logan, OH. It is hard to believe, something like Hocking Hills is in Ohio. Lots and lots of waterfalls, and rocks for the scouts to climb on. Make sure you take a visit, and good luck.