Tiny1pj

James, VERY GOOD POINT!

I have a "3/4" axe for the boys to use. It is easier for them to control than either a full size axe or a hand axe (hatchet). My own sons have watched me cut through a 2" limb with one cut with this axe, from a wheelchair.

I wonder how many of our leaders know what the differant styles of axes are for? Even though I use them, I am not familiar with all of them. I wonder how many scouts are trying to use the wrong kind of axe, when they should be using a general purpose axe. Just a question that I do not have an answer for.

That brings up another point. Quality! The axes and hand axes my boys use are Estwing, made in Rockford, Illinois. They are very expensive outside the Rockford area, but are worth it. The heads and handles are a single piece of steel, so there is no possibility of the head coming off. Additionaly the design helps to split small pieces of wood easily.

I know that the BSA suppy catalog items are supposed to be of high quality, but that is not so with every item.

Thanks for some good thoughts leaders!

Paul Johnson

As has been pointed out, the LOCATION is the key. Here, most backcountry people DO carry a saw, and often an axe.

I have never been on the trails you mentioned, however have done some cleanup on the Centennial Trail, leading south from Yellowstone. Saws and axes are common, and used correctly often.

If you are worrying about the boy who has earned his totin' chip carrying and properly using these tools, he should not have been able to earn the card. To earn it, he is supposed to demonstrate proper use. Both of my sons had to be reminded that my corrective lenses were indeed protective eyewear. My 9 year old is safe. However, he is never left unsupervised when handling edged tools.

I am concerned that perhaps the boys you deal with are not truely learning the principals of scouting. Yes, most boys are from the couch potato culture. We should be leading them in a differant direction. This will take time, and some will never learn. That is why most activities have adults around - a safety measure.

It is unfortunate that our society focuses on the idiot box and video games. I made a stand and my sons have extremely limited access to TV, about 3 hours a week. They are involved in church, US Swimming, and after-school study hall. They look forward to scouting activities, and within the next couple of months I expect my oldest to earn his 2nd and 1st class badges.

This summer my youngest earned 7 webelos activity pins, and that was with me in hospital for almost a month! He already has half the items needed for his arrow of light. He is the de-facto denner for his den, always leading the other boys.

I am not saying I have the solution for all boys, but it has worked for us. Both of them are hard workers, and value what scouting teaches.

As for maturity, I know many adults I would be afraid to give a rubber band to for fear they would hurt themselves or others. This includes my father. I did not have good examples when growing up, and have had to either teach myself everything I know, or my best friend (eagle, OA) had taken me under his wing.

As a side note, my troop and webelos son went out on a BLM cleanup this morning. They were the youngest there. My wife saw one of the BLM employees later in the grocers, and was complemented on how hard the boys worked. This naturally made me very proud of them.

Paul Johnson

As you have probably read earlier, that is not an option. It is the same solution that most ecoterrorists take - do not go into the woods, let everything remain as it is.

This is worse than utopian. It assumes that no one has any effect on the forests. This is far from the truth. Even without going up into our forests, we have an effect. Until you are willing to give up all clothing, all transportation (except your own feet), all energy (you are using energy in order to use a computer), and go back 50,000 years, any thought that you have no effect is self delusional.

The acid rain has left thousands of acres (non contiguous) of dead trees. These trees either have to be used or will eventually burn. There is too much out there and not all of it can be returned to mulch and food for the forest.

This ignores winter downfall in prepared camping areas, including scout camps.

I cannot speak for the east, however here in the northern Rocky Mountains what I have mentioned is reality.

Lets not forget some other requirements for merit badges that have the boys cleaning up deadfall, trails, etc. You may be able to do it in more populated areas with your hands. That is not the case when you have a 18"+ diameter tree fall over a road.

Continue to teach both, and USE them APPROPRIATELY. Teach that they are tools, not toys. Teach multiple use of public lands, conservation not preservation. Teach respect, not blame.

LNT (Leave No Trace) was founded right here in my hometown by NOLS, National Outdoor Leadership School. LNT does NOT teach to not utilize what we have available. They use fires made of wood collected at their camp sites.

Read some of Paul Petzal's (sp?), the founder of NOLS, writings. He was a hunter and conservationist.

Paul Johnson

Lander, WY

Having just returned from Summer Camp, the only reason we did NOT have a campfire was because I had left the wood cutting tools at home due to the extreme fire danger. Since I live only about 150 miles from the camp, just outside Yellowstone, I thought they had similar drought conditions we had.

To the contrary, there was significant (for Wyoming) rain the previous week, and light rain twice while at camp. Although I still think I did the correct thing in this instance, we did miss the campfire at our own camping area. Wood from winter cleanup of the camp had been provided at each campsite. Amost all of it would have needed to be split, a perfect time to put in use the skills of the "Totin Chip".

In our area, wood stoves, in some form, are in almost half the homes. These skills are used by most people in their daily lives, not just as "scouts".

For those of us in this region, the skills will never be "out of use".

Paul Johnson

T-4013

Although we adults should not be excessive in showing off our own accomplishments, my opinion is that when we are with our troop at a multi troop function, that is the time to make sure we are all wearing the same neckerchief.

At award ceremonies within the unit (troop, pack, crew), it seems that is the time to wear "your finest", your awards, so that the youth will see that you are working toward bettering yourself as well.

In regular troop meetings, is were we (adults) wear something differant than the boys. If it is a pack meeting, I wear the appropriate bolo or neckerchief to my position that I am representing. If a troop meeting, I may only wear my beads, and occasionally no neck wear at all. The boys notice a lot, and are glad to see their leaders recognized for all the effort we put in.

When I am not representing my pack or troop is when I wear my Wood Badge material, or the universal bolo.

I have saved the ties for last. As one person pointed out, any "official" uniform part is still valid, regardless of date, but the balance of the uniform must also match. That is, if a tie was for the green uniforms, then it should not be worn with the tans.

A number of ties have been printed (made) with scout emblems on them. However, in the catalog most of these say "for civilian wear only". The only current traditional tie is black (from the picture). I might wear 0ne for more formal or district occaisions, however the ones I saw in the catalog are just too short! A standard tie stops midway from my navel to my sternum (I am 6'6")

As for the neckerchief in or out, remember that it is a boy run organization.

Paul Johnson

Chair, T-4013

Cubmaster, P-17

District committee member

Hi All - I know it has been a long time since I have been on. Had a mild heart attack (too much stress I was told) in Feb, and my ISP sold, so no access until today.

I see that the general arguments have not changed.

1. The overall quality of the uniforms is not up to par (I got an "experienced" cub shirt today with the left pocket a full inch lower than the right!)

2. A lot of folks with more "dollars than sense" spend a lot more for sporting equipment and name brand junk.

3. The uniforms were not designed for all purpose use.

What we have done here helps with the "Class A" (Tan and green) uniforms. They are worn to troop and patrol meetings, and any time in the public eye for a non-work activity. They are also worn to non-winter camps (district) for morning and evening colors and ceremonies, but time is allowed for change to troop/patrol uniforms (usually troop t-shirt and jeans) for the daily activities, where the Class A's might be damaged.

It works well for us. Now if I can just get my assistant scoutmaster to wear his uniform occasionally!

Paul Johnson

T-4013, committee chair

tdyer56 is on the money about looking in the thrift shops. It has made a large differance in who is or is'nt in uniform.

Another thought - or concern if you will,

I think the only problem with a "given" uniform is that the boy will not always appretiate it. The boys in my wife's den who bought their uniforms, are more likely to wear them, than the ones that I gave uniforms to.

Paul

Yes, it sure is beautiful. I worked at the State School until my disability. My wife currently is on here 23rd year there.

We keep getting new statues every few months, it seems. The local foundry has made many of the bronzes that are seen around the country. They store the statues at various locations around town until shipped to the buyer.

Of the permanent statues, in town, only 2 were paid for by tax receipts. The Antelope just south of the main intersection, and the Lander Lil, across the street. Lander Lil is a Prairie Dog, and is our equivalent to Puxatawny Phil.

Aren't the antelope a beautiful animal? Although I do hunt them (for food), I love watching them. They are the most curious animals (except maybe a cat) I have ever seen. It is fun to watch them try to figure out what something is when the see it.

The river you mention is the Popo Agie (Poposhu) and the places are the Sinks and the Rise. There is more water comming out than going in!!!

For any troops looking for a great long trip, I reccomend Camp Buffalo Bill, near Yellowstone, and also making a side trip to the Lander region.

Give me a call if you get in the area.

God bless all

Paul Johnson

To "Coolscout101" - Your last post shows that you are definately NOT cool.

Remember the Scout oath "do my duty to God and my Country"

and to "to HELP other people at all times"

and in the Scout Law "Helpful, kind"

The attitude shown by "That's your problem, not mine" shows a lack of these things in your life.

Most of us in these forums have tried to help solve problems for other scouts and scouters. There are a few things that will take a concerted effort on the part of all of us. Specifically anything that has to do with policy or uniforms.

Paul Johnson

Lander, WY

As for the vest, I found that a heavy synthetic felt worked well. To make the vest less "itchy", line it with a satin type material. As for your scout leaders tan patch vest, the only "autorized" color is the red vest. Unless it is an older vest that I am unaware of being autorized, he made it up on his own. I personally think he should get back to the original colors.

"Official Coat" - red wool by Pendleton, may only have a single patch in the back, the official patch in front on the left pocket, and the Philmont Bull on the left shoulder.

I wish you well with your son in Scouts!

Paul Johnson

As to wearing the "temporary" patches, may I suggest the Red Vest, which is intended for that purpose!

It may be worn by youth or adult in informal situations (not at a board of review, court of honor, or as part of a color detail).

I made my sons each one, and they are very happy with them. It gives them a place to wear the patches they have earned/recieved over the years, and you do not have to strip them off when the boy bridges to scouts.

Paul Johnson

I am not sure what you consider a "campfire robe". However, an excellant blanket coat as used in the Rendezvous would probably meet your needs. There are many patterns floating around. These coats are VERY warm, easy to sew, and only take a single (wool) blanket for a normal size person. The name of this coat is a "Capote" - I am unsure what is means or origination other than from the French.

Paul Johnson

In the last Scouting magazine, there was a fairly large section devoted to it. I thought I saw an address there.

If my sons had not run off with it, I would look - They seem to like the adult mag as much as they do their Boy's Life!

Paul

I thought that was what happened when you had too many "scouting - 1 hour a week" times!

:-)

I never knew the name of this wonderful movie, and have never seen the start. However I think every adult scouter should watch it. So many of the issues it dealt with are just as applicable today, and may be an excellant way to discuss how to deal with issues in your own troop.

Thank you so much for bringing this movie back to mind.

BTW - if anyone does hear of it being released on video, please let me know!

God bless all,

Paul Johnson

Finally someone who gets the idea of true integration! Mike Long hit it on the head when he said "But I certainly would not describe most of them as disabled". To me this would make the perfect unit. The person's health condition is not the primary criteria in the decision making process. If ALL people would take this attitude, there would be no need for the ADA.

The merit badge book does not say that the den or troop worked with has to be a "disabled" troop, nor do the individuals have to consider themselves "disabled". Only have a disabling condition.

Even though "legally" disabled since 14, I did not consider myself disabled until I was forced into a wheelchair 2 years ago. I did make a concession of using the "handicapped parking permit" after my leg was amputated.

Most of us who have severe disabling conditions do not think of ourselves as very disabled, because we usually think of people who are worse off.

It is important to recognize the differance of a disabling condition, and the perception of a disability. I consider myself "differantly abled", and know that I have many abilities that others do not. I just cannot walk, or use my hands very long anymore. Most youth/children do not think of themselves as disabled unless an adult forces the issue.

OGE - As to the units in our district, many of the mormon units contain only 2-4 boys, and I am not as familiar with them as with the other units. However, one of my favorite tasks as a leader was sitting on the eagle board for a boy who DID NOT make his disability known before the board. It did become obvious he had a developmental disability, and we had to change our questions to get the information we wanted. Yes, he did pass, with only one concession to his disability.

jmc - your posts suggest that perhaps you have not come to terms with your own situation. If you look back at my post, you knee-jerked at a particular term, that is still accurate. Although most "disabiling conditions" are hidden, the boys will know of someone who fits the criteria. I was responding with suggestions on how to help boys earn a merit badge, not to complain about leaders. We can trade arguments about who is more impaired till doomsday, but that will not help the boys.

Having been told myself that I should "stay home" and not be seen because of my obvious disability, I know that these boys are getting some of the same crap. Because of that they may feel shame, or fear of their condition being a barrier by being differant. For that reason alone the option of "helping a boy join" is not contrived, but a VERY GOOD IDEA! The youth who may percieve that their disabling condition keeps them from joining will certainly benefit from the confidence he can build as he advances in scouting.

ADD/ADHD has many levels. Rarely do we see a severe incidence of it. However, last spring I had a boy come through my station at Camp-O-Ree who had absolutely no control. If the leaders of the patrol (adult and youth) had known how to deal with this situation, all the boys could have learned. Instead the adults kept telling the boy to sit, and the other boys kept watching him. The entire patrol lost out due to the ignorance of the condition by the adults, and lack of training the youth leader could have had. It was not the patrol leader's fault that this boy was out of control. But it was definately handled badly. (My solution would have been to have one of his parents along to sit with him, perhaps even "hugging" him to help him keep control. I have used it with several of my clients, but is not appropriate at in scouting except by a parent)

Thanks Uncle Bob.

It is a great thing to see boys "doing their best", especially when we see so many who barely try.

There are probably a lot of boys out there who would joing scouting if not for the costs. We do what we can, however it is never enough.

My thoughts immediately go to a story I heard once -

A man was walking along the ocean, and saw another up ahead of him, stooping down and throwing something into the ocean every few steps. He caught up with the second man to see that he was throwning starfish back into the water. He told them man " your task is impossible, you will never make a difference." the second man said "it mad a differance to that one" as he tossed another starfish back in the ocean.

I know I will never be famous, or win a Nobel prize, but if I make a differance in one boy's life, may be my actions will live on.

Thanks,

Paul Johnson

You are EXACTLY they type of person that has made living with disabilities a living hell for me.

Untill you live with a disabiling condition, as I have, for more that 26 years, you cannot understand what it is to be disabled. In the last 2 years I have gone from relatively stable health to having my health care team "politely" suggest I start planning for "my future", including hospital bed and possible home care by licensed care givers.

I may be new to scouting, however when I read the requirements of the badge, I thought there were overly easy. But then, I completed Woodbadge at a totally non-accessible camp in a wheelchair, and all my ticket in about 9 months. It is the first merit badge my troop looked at (part of my ticket), and they could have easily accomplished the items in a very short time.

I have lived with a mentally ill father and a brother with mental retardation my entire life. My first employment was as a nurses aid in a home for children with developmental disabilities.

My entire highschool sophomore year, and about half my junior year, were spent as an inpatient at the Childrens Hospital, Madison, Wisconsin. When I should have been learning to date, I was spending time with kids that never left the hospital alive.

Although it is possible you have been through all this, it is very unlikely.

I stand very strong by my assessment that most scout leaders are ignorant of what really does constitute a disability. (sctmom is very correct that diabetes is a disability - I can give you all the first hand scoop of what it is like to be a diabetic of less than 2 years, with good control, and having multiple organ failure or other related problems).

A few months ago Scouting magazing had an excellant article on disabilities. I believe it should be required reading for EVERY leader.

As for the requirements being "contrived", no more so than many of the other merit badges, or rank advancements in Cub scouts.

I could easily continue, however will ask that you look up the definition of "ignorant". It means that you lack knowledge. All of us are "ignorant" of many things.

My experience with scout leaders throughout this and surrounding councils should give me an insight into what most leaders are like. They are generally intelligent and care about boys. However they do not have a clue when it comes to disabilities unless they have 1st hand experience of long standing with a close friend or relative. Not even my closest friends really understand what it is like, only how to help given certain situations.

jc, you need to re-read your own post and reconsider your words.

Paul Johnson

The CR/IR (institutional rep) is the ONLY person that may be registered in 2 positions by the same unit.

According to the Scoutmaster Handbook, p 156,

"The chartered organization representative is a member of the charered organization and the recognized head of its Scouting department. The COR is appointed by the head of the institution and serves as the connecting link between the institution and the troop. ... The COR is the chartered organization's representative on the district committee, and is a voting delegate at the local council's annual meeting. In addition, the chartered organization representative may serve on the troop committee."

Paul Johnson

The requirements of this badge are much easier to achieve than the previous posts suggest. This shows an ignorance amongst leaders as to what really is a "disability".

1) any boy who has been diagnosed with ADHD has a disabling condition.

2) mental retardation

3) Autism and it's many subcategories

4) Asthma and other lung conditions

5) Heart conditions

Too often we look for the conditions that are easily visible, but forget the less obvious ones. How many boys do we have out there that would benefit from the program but do not join because they are ashamed of their "disability".

To find out more, visit with your local independant living center, state vocational rehabilitation office, and school district.

This is one area where my pack and troop are both fortunate. They have a scoutmaster with hearing impairment, and a cubmaster in a wheel chair. They do not see the impairments because we do not let them get in the way. Yet they are real, and cause difficulty in everyday life.

If the only reason a boy invites another is to earn the badge, you are right that the motivation is bad. However, the invite should come IN SPITE OF, not because of, the disability.

In our city, EVERY non-mormon unit has disabled scouts.

Paul Johnson

Uncle Bob, I live in the poorest county in Wyoming, with the highest (adjusted for seasonal fluctuations) unemployment in the state. Approximately 1/3rd of my Cubs are in single parent families, who earn $6.90 an hour at the Wyoming state training school, the county's largest employer.

We "scholarship" any who state that they are unable to pay the registration, and ask that they pay for the following year's registration from their popcorn commission.

My own income is only $800 a month (SSDI), and my wife and I have not earned enough to have to pay income tax since I have been disabled.

That $100+ uniforming cost for each boy is an awful lot to come up with when we have my entire income going to housing, and fully a third of my wife's is paying insurance.

I know there are a lot of folks out there that cannot send their kids to school in anything not new and brand name. And I see it every day here.

However, my troop, and most of my pack, is not in that category. The hole are honest work holes, not in them for fashion. My entire den is in the same financial category we are, yet they worked very hard and completed the arrow of light, and all 20 webelos activity badges in under 13 months.

I would love to know what it is like not to have to worry about making next months bills. However, scouting is still a priority in my family. However, I doubt that anyone will wear a new uniform because of the cost. And we will not be going to a jamboree because a month and a half of wages per person is just more than we can stand.

Paul Johnson

I must strongly disagree with pwlane. If there is a problem, it needs to be addressed. When I logged onto the supply division web site, I was initially happy to see a "survey" - but then greatly disappointed to see that it would only allow a SINGLE improvement suggestion. We need to make our voices heard, that the quality has to improve, along with the prices, or a number of the boys will be going without.

I have an "experienced" uniform closet, and it is very sad to see a uniform that has been through a single boy look worse than one that has been through many boys, and obviously used. The uniform that was through a single boy was my son's, and he was very active. Yet the uniform that is 40+ years old, is brighter, seams stronger, and material thicker than a uniform that I bought new just 3 years ago.

I have to make my own clothes due to being confined to a wheelchair and being large (6'6" tall, 350 lbs). There is not a single pair of pants or a shirt that will fit me out of the box. I cannot even wear the socks as they are too small, and a larger pair is not available (I wear a 15 wide). The regulation socks are like a tourniquet on my leg, and being a diabetic that is definately not healthy.

Paul Johnson

Cubmaster, Troop committee chair, District committee, Wood badge, ....

The BSA Uniform guide does not specify that a specific badge be worn on a specific color, neither does the inspection sheet.

In my opinion, the only considerations should be 1) where the boy wants it, and 2) put it on a contrasting color so that it may be seen (i.e. put the safety badge on something other than green).

The current policy is that the badges may be worn on the webelos cap OR the colors. This was done because a lot of boys would lose the colors during horseplay.

Paul Johnson

Cubmaster, P-17, Lander, WY

The bad news is that what the porn person has done is perfectly legal. It is a version of "Cyber Squatting" - taking a name of a business or organizations and registering it so that the org will have to "buy them out". It is a sleazy way to extort money legally from organizations that do not want to be associated with that garbage.

Paul

A while back I asked about anyone who had ideas to adapt uniforms to those of us in wheelchairs. There were no replies to that post, so I started experimenting.

The result is that I have some things that I am willing to share with anyone who has an interest in adapting their pants and shirts to fit better in the event of needing it for wheelchair use.

Please contact me for further information.

Paul Johnson

Cubmaster/Troop Committee Chair

P.O. Box 446

Lander, WY 82520

(307) 332-5957