Tami the Mom

Thank you all for your responses! I'll be making them this weekend for Monday's parade!

We're getting ready to march in the Memorial Day parade. I LOVE making new neckerchief slides with the boys. We have several "theme" slides now. So last night, out of the corner of my eye, I saw my bucket of army soldier toys. You know the ones- little green plastic army guys. How would they be for slides? They are based on WWII soldiers, which is in large part what Memorial Day is all about. Would they be seen as a tribute or would it be disrespectful? I plan to call the local VFW later today, but thought I would put it out here as well.

We really target incoming Tigers as well. Several reasons - #1 - it gets them into the pack a few months early, so they can start having fun right away, #2 - they are guaranteed adults at daycamp, #3 - we can get their parents trained over the summer and hit the ground running in the fall.

Ok, so since our school also will not let us send home papers either, we look to other ways. We got permission and will distribute papers at the little league field. I am going to check with VBS to see if we can also recruit through them. (Shouldn't be hard, the pastor involved is a big Scouting supporter.) We'll also be out and about for the Memorial Day and Independence Day parades, and we'll pass out flyers then too. And we are holding our crossover ceremony in our town park, inviting the pubkic to join us for a bbq and ice cream social, in hopes of gathering some new kids.

That is amazing. What a great group of boys.

Oh, wow! Every word of your post made me sadder and sadder, angrier and angier!

Go to a roundtable asap. Hopefully your district's leadership is in much better shape than your pack's. You should be meeting at least 3x a month with your Tigers - regular meetings, field trips, pack events. Your whole pack should be getting together once a month to give the boys whatever awards they may have earned. Cub Scouting is all about giving the kids constant reminders of how great they are. Beltloops, pins, patches - these are like gold to a little kid!

I understand you are busy with your Girl Scouts. I have oft heard the phrase "If you want a job done, give it to a busy person." I have 3 daughters and a son, and 2 stepsons. Of those kids, all 3 boys are Boy Scouts, my oldest daughter is a Cadette GS, and in the fall I will have a Daisy. Next year I'll have one more Daisy. Now let me tell you about my Scouting activities - I am my daughter's troop leader, and this year I am helping to plan a council-wide camp event attended by 2500 girls. My son's troop didn't want my help when he crossed, so I stayed with the pack. I am CM of our pack, and I am also our districts CS roundtable commissioner, and I am the council's daycamp director for 2 weeks of camp, 200+ boys. I am lucky to be an at-home mom, because yes, this takes up a lot of my time. But you know what - I spend lots of time with some of the best people on earth - Cub and Girl Scouts! That makes every minute of it worthwhile.

Ok, as far as how many activities any of us might do - you're dipping into a deep well there. Most of the folks who will answer your questions probably have pretty active packs. You need to start small and build a good program. That starts with good training and committed leaders. Step up, or find someone who will. Honestly - for me it's easier to lead than follow. This way things are scheduled around my family's needs, and I always know what is going on. Plan a small activity for your den - a picnic or a trip to a museum. Get some people interested. Build some enthusiasm. Help the kids earn a beltloop or two - watch how excited they get when you hand it to them.

The best and fatsest way you can help your pack is by getting trained. Go to training classes, go to roundtable, seek out other leaders in your area and pick their brains.

Almost all of the Webelos pins require re-earning one or two beltloops. My pack doesn't give the boys another beltloop, we just give them credit for earning it again. All of this information should be in his Webelos handbook.

Ea - I'm not sure how any of that pertains to my question. First, I am not a denleader, so I'm not asking to drag him to meetings I am leading. If we ever are able to get DC's from the only troop in our town, we'd make sure to assign them to dens where they don't have a younger brother or cousin. And we would definitely not put an 11 year old Boy Scout with a Webelos den, because they are too close in age, and the Cubs would not see a "Boy Scout", they'd see a "five minutes ago he was a Cub Scout". Of course all of this is moot, since we cannot get the SM or ASM or SPL or even the ASPL to discuss the possibility of giving us DCs. They tell us they will ask the boys, and then they don't. Or they only ask the older boys who already have jobs, sports, girlfriends and cars to take up all their free time. They won't even consider asking the boys who are younger than 14. That's why I came here asking for supporting information to show them that a 12 year old, 2nd class scout, can in fact become a DC.

We have always had Boy Scouts at camp who were just a year or two out of Cubs. We sometimes assign them to help with dens of younger Cubs - parents of Tigers and Wolfs might not know the layout of the property, so it's handy to have a boy who does. Or we station them in the sports field, to help corral the kids during games, a job that our adult volunteers wear out on during a hot, sunny day. Sometimes we just use them as runners - being a Cubs latrine buddy, or bringing supplies around the property. And no matter what - we always attach them to a den who is going to the beach, so they can get a few minutes in the water, and we set aside specific times for them in archery when there are no Cubs. Even the Eagles who have helped at camp enjoy those perks. We've never had a problem with a DC trying to join in arts & crafts. They like being older, having more responsibilities.

Ok, well, to clarify, the reason I am asking is because my sons troop seems bent on denying boys the right to participate in outside activities. This fall, they decided that only 1st class and above could participate in the Webelos Woods program, and since all of the boys in the troop 1st class and above had other plans, they didn't participate at all, even though (as a program chair) I told them we would happily take ANY scouts who knew the layout of the camp property, as most of the parents don't, and we'd need boys to help move the Cubs from program area to program area. They still declined. LAST MINUTE.

I am the Cub daycamp director. My son has helped out since the first year he crossed to Boy Scouts. The kids love him, the parents and staff love him, he has a great time, and never once has he uttered the phrase "I am a den chief, you have to do what I say". However - his troop leadership has now decided that they won't allow ANY of the boys (of course they can't stop me from taking my son) to help at daycamp unless they are fully DC trained thru council. As it happens, last years daycamp director is on the council training staff, and will be doing DC training in March. Except now I am hearing rumblings of "the boy has to be 14 and 1st class." My son is 12 and 2nd class. He will be 1st class by summercamp, but not by March when the training is done. His birthday is in August, so it will be two full summers before he is 14.

Now as far as being a DC for pack events, we cannot get the troop to offer them. I am the ACM of our pack, and our CM has repeatedly asked for DC's. They keep telling us none of the boys are interested, however - again, they will only consider boys who are 1st class and above, putting them in 8th grade or above, and now busy with the 3 W's. Sadly, in our one-horse town, we also only have one troop.

So you can see now, I am looking to find out if there is anything on paper that says a 12 year old, 2nd Class rank Scout can NOT be a DC or help at camp. (I have gone several rounds with the SM and ASM about the difference between DC for camp and DC for meetings, and they won't listen.)

Phew! Now, if anyone can help me find some way to convince them to stop being so exclusionary, I would appreciate it.

I want to get my son and some of the other boys in his troop trained as den chiefs so they can be official for daycamp this year. I have asked his scoutmaster and assistants several times, and keep meeting with either blank stares or downright denial of knowledge. So I tried looking myself, but I cannot find anything that gives me the requirements for a Boy Scout to be a DC. Are there minimum age requirements? One page I found says they are "usually" first class, but not that they have to be. Help!

I don't think there's ever a "need" for a Tiger to carry a knife. Carrying a knife is a big deal to a kid. As such, it should be treated with respect and care. If anything, holding Cubs off until they are Wolfs, or even Bears, only serves to make it more special. Our pack doean't let the boys earn their card until they are Bears.

Sounds like a terrific time!

What you want is a yardstick, with distinct marks at 3.5 inches, 5.5 inches, 9 inches, and 12.5 inches. I can't remember word-for-word how the script I had went, but I can paraphrase. First, the reasonings for the markings - each half-inch of the yardstick is to represent one year of an average mans 72 year life. You have marked off 7 years, 11 years, 18, and 25 years. Here's the story -

Please look at this representation of an average mans life. That average is 72 years. See here (point) we have the boy at his birth (I drew a little blue bootie)- he's small and helpless, he can't do anything without help from his family. Here (point) he is at 7 years old. He is gaining independence, but he has so much further to go. And now at 11 (point again) he is starting to form his own ideas of his life. He thinks he knows more that he does, he still needs guidance and support. Looking here, he is now 18 (I put a car shape there). He's getting ready to move out into the world. He has learned many things from his family, teachers, and friends. Now here he is 25 (pic of a house). He's probably thinking about starting a family of his own. He's finished college, maybe going on to graduate school or starting his career. He's a man.

But let's look back at these years - (use your fingers to show the 2 inches of "life" between the 3.5 and 5.5 marks) the time from 7 to 11 years old. Sociologists have studied human behavior, and we know that most of what a child learns about character development happens during these crucial years. These years when he is exposed to new ideas, new people, and his own growing independence. These years can be a critical time for instilling in him the values that we want him to hold dear - truth, honor, dignity, respect. (Set the ruler down and step toward the crowd.)

(Holding your finger up showing those 2 inches still.) This is what it takes to teach a boy the values you want him to learn. This is all - and together we can do it. Spending an hour or two a week is all it takes. And when you see how small that time ends up being in his life - isn't it worth it?

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We did this speach at a Roundtable last year, and there wasn't a person there who wasn't silent for the whole thing.

Hey - nldscout - what council are you in? I'm in Twin Rivers, and we haven't heard any news on anything yet. We have lots of families interested in a Lion program. I think a lot of them have daughters who joined Daisies in kindergarten, and now they want their sons to jump into Cubs. I know I have boy/girl twins, and it was a big reason why my daughter waited until 1st grade to join Brownies.

I know there was discussion of a new Lion rank coming in for kindergarteners. Does anybody know where it stands now?

From my experience, gathering a top-notch staff will really help make things go right. In our RT (I am the CSRTC) we have a woman who coordinates a "gathering activity" - sometimes a game, sometimes a project, just something small and quick and theme-related that folks can do as they arrive, before they take their seats. Then we have a general session - opening skit, a song, some outdoor and theme related idea sharing, a training highlight, then breakout sessions. I have a really fun guy who takes Cub denleaders to one table, where they make crafts, sing songs, play games - it's a full-on cirsuc at their table. An enthusiastic woman leader Webelos leaders in discussions and hands-on experiments based on the Webelos program. Another lady leads the CC's and CM's thru some discussion topics and pack issues - rotating themes, these discussions can take off in any direction. After a 25 minute breakout, we all join back up for show-n-tell of what everyone did, and then some quick announcements, and off to snack. I provide a theme-related snack and everyone can munch and talk, share ideas and enjoy time with fellow scouters. We "end" at 8:30, but it's not uncommon to still be there at 9:15.

I think the place to start is refining your program. Gather your staff, guide them thru how you want your RT to flow. Get everyone on the same page. Use the RT guide as your jumping off point. Once everyone is comfortable with how they do things, let them be creative. Veer off from the printed games and songs. With an unlimited source of online information, bring new ideas to folks. And market your program. Put up signs in your scout store or office. Call CM's and CC's on the phone and invite them to come check things out. Go to camp-o-rees and district pinewoods and daycamps, and talk to adults.

From my experience, gathering a top-notch staff will really help make things go right. In our RT (I am the CSRTC) we have a woman who coordinates a "gathering activity" - sometimes a game, sometimes a project, just something small and quick and theme-related that folks can do as they arrive, before they take their seats. Then we have a general session - opening skit, a song, some outdoor and theme related idea sharing, a training highlight, then breakout sessions. I have a really fun guy who takes Cub denleaders to one table, where they make crafts, sing songs, play games - it's a full-on cirsuc at their table. An enthusiastic woman leader Webelos leaders in discussions and hands-on experiments based on the Webelos program. Another lady leads the CC's and CM's thru some discussion topics and pack issues - rotating themes, these discussions can take off in any direction. After a 25 minute breakout, we all join back up for show-n-tell of what everyone did, and then some quick announcements, and off to snack. I provide a theme-related snack and everyone can munch and talk, share ideas and enjoy time with fellow scouters. We "end" at 8:30, but it's not uncommon to still be there at 9:15.

I think the place to start is refining your program. Gather your staff, guide them thru how you want your RT to flow. Get everyone on the same page. Use the RT guide as your jumping off point. Once everyone is comfortable with how they do things, let them be creative. Veer off from the printed games and songs. With an unlimited source of online information, bring new ideas to folks. And market your program. Put up signs in your scout store or office. Call CM's and CC's on the phone and invite them to come check things out. Go to camp-o-rees and district pinewoods and daycamps, and talk to adults.

I'll be making FOS presentations at a couple of Blue & Golds and CoHs in the next few months and am looking for words of wisdom from y'all about what works and what doesn't. Thanks!

We had our FOS presentation last week at our Pinewood. We had a captive audience, near full attendance, and it's early enough to give folks a chance to pay their commitments before the end of the year.

Our presenter is fabulous. He keeps it short - not more than 8-10 minutes, and he involves the group. He mostly points out some facts - we get less than 10% of what we used to get from UW. We have a beautiful camp that we don't want to lose. And more and more industry is leaving the area - meaning fewer corporations to contribute. Even with directed giving through the UW, we don't get nearly as much as we used to. And he asks people to give until it feels good. Giving till it hurts makes you not want to help out next year. Giving until it feels good leaves you feeling like you're part of a good program.

If any unit in the council meets the Fair Share $52 per kid goal, they will give us rank advancement patches next year. Big whoop. But better than a sharp stick in the eye, right?

We bring in a guy with a bounce house on Fridays when we do a carnival. Also, folks we know who have popcorn machines and cotton candy machines. They never charge, so we make sure their kids get to go down to archery and they always leave with a covetted "skull" bead.

We bring in a guy with a bounce house on Fridays when we do a carnival. Also, folks we know who have popcorn machines and cotton candy machines. They never charge, so we make sure their kids get to go down to archery and they always leave with a covetted "skull" bead.

If you get the chance to go, I highly recommend! We had a terrific time! The campground is very nice, all the amenities- flush toilets, nice tent sites, camp store with plenty of souvenirs, and a pool, tho we never used it. The one thing we were surprised about was the train tracks that went directly along the grounds, and the freight trains ran all night long- every 45 minutes or so.

We brought extra food for breakfasts because their description of the provided meal was "breakfast in a bag" and we were afraid it wouldn't fill the girls. Well- it was plenty! In each bag was a single serve bowl of cereal, variety choice, plus a danish and a bagel, cream cheese, butters and jellies, and plastic utensils and a napkin. To drink- one each white milk, orange juice and chocolate milk (Hershey's of course!)

All in all, we had a great time. The girls got to ride a bunch of rides, we all brought home bunches of souvenirs and of course- chocolate. For 7 people, we budgetted about $1500. We raised almost $2500 and came home with $525 left over. If we'd only had the original $1500, things would have been snug. We allowed everyone $100 for shopping once we knew we had extra money, and we brought an extra adult who was not figured into our budget, and we were able to cover all of her outside meals and some gifts.

I stayed with the pack when my son crossed because the troop said they didn't need my help. I didn't start over as a denleader though, I was and am still assistant CM. Our pack CM also stayed after his boy crossed to Boy Scouts. We think it's important for continuity of leadership. A few years back our whole committee left at the same time. Their sons had all gone on at different times but they stayed on for a while. The problem they left us with was no trained leadership. We had to scramble to get a new committee trained and in place.

Our council is an early adopter. We're not sure how things will shake out, exactly, but we might as well make the best of it. From what we understand, as the councils merge, most of the paid staff will be trimmed down. However, a lot of things will become "regional" where they were before considered "council functions".

As far as keeping us in the loop- yes, absolutely. We had a meeting last week with a council rep who told us as much as she knows at this point. Our specific concerns were how they will handle "council" functions- our every-third-year council camp, and some of the bigger programs. She says we'll all see how that will work together. Our council happens to sit geographically right in the middle of all of the ones that are merging, so hopefully we will now be able to take advantage of everyone's programs.

We don't give trophies to everyone, but we do give certificates to every boy. We've had to add some over the years as the pack has grown to make sure every kid got something different. Some of our newest categories-

Baloo's Favorite (chosen by CM)

Akela's Favorite (chosen by ACM)

Pit Crew Favorite

Best Fixer-Upper

Judge's Favorite

Best Non-car (things like pencils and spaceships)

Good survey. As pointed out, no mention of a Girl Scout history or adult leader awards.

Another question I might have added would have been- what position/s do you hold or have you held?

I would love to see a Lion program for kindergarten boys! As a mother and an aunt of twins, both sets boy/girl, it was hard to explain to our boys why their sisters could be Daisies while they had to wait to be Tigers. And as a leader for both sets, I see how much fun the younger boys could be having.

Isn't the whole point of a test program to work out the kinks?