sst3rd

It's been a while, but it happened again last night at our meeting. We've already implemented a commonsense plan, but please give me your thoughts. Our Scouts were playing basketball outside (not in uniform). The time came to start the formal meeting and change into uniforms. The Scouts tend to place their "play" clothes on a shelf in their Patrol areas until the end of the meeting. During the meeting, a wallet was taken from a pair of pants. Not much money, but the Scout's new driving permit was in there. The Scout didn't notice until he got home. He called me (SM) to please check the Scout building the next morning and call him when he got home from school. I did. No wallet. He called me, and I met with him and his Dad at the meeting place. Checked again. No wallet. Reviewed the meeting and came up with possibilities. Dad said to chock it up to experience. They went home. I called our CC, and we decided I would call each Patrol member and simply state that this Scout lost his wallet and someone may have mistakenly picked it up with their clothes on the way out the door. Please check, and if you find it, no harm done. Call me and I will pick up and return to Scout. I made all of the calls. No response. What, if anything, is there to do next? The meeting area is one big room. Lots of action happening all of the time. The PLC will review this at the next meeting. Thanks....... Anderson

As I stated earlier in this discussion, the Scouting program is being brought down to the lowest common denominator. Hazing and abuse are "victim defined." If the Scout is in any way put in a possible position where he may possibly be abused or hazed by "HIS" understanding, this situation is not allowed to happen. The adult leaders are charged with seeing that these possibilities DON'T happen. Of course, this is an impossibility, but we adult leaders must try. Traditions must be removed and replaced by the safest possible environment that can be created. With a lot of work, the basic character of the BSA program can be maintained.

Once again, having to defer to the lowest common denominator. If the Scout feels victimized in ANYWAY, this is abuse (mental, physical, hazing, or whatever you want to call it). This is against BSA Policy.

At summer camp in the mess hall, if you accidently go "in" the OUT door, or come "out" the IN door (this is done to avoid accidents serving food from the kitchen), you had to properly navigate the doors three times, while the Scouts and Scouters in the mess hall counted for you, "ONE, TWO, THREE!!!!" It took about 10 seconds, and then you went and had a seat, no BIG deal. Unfortunately, these "traditions" are now being removed from the world of Scouting, as Scouts and parents complain about this type of abuse (hazing).

Soon, the really fun, traditional, Scouting stories, gags, and skits will be gone, because in someone's opinion, this is abuse or hazing. They will be distant memories of when Scouting values included poking good natured fun at each other (oh my gosh, is that physical abuse?????).

Again, Scouting is to provide that Safe Haven of Scouting adventure. It's just getting much more difficult to provide, without hurting SOMEBODY'S feelings about SOMETHING !!!! Give me a break. Even if you are an experienced Scouter with training, "your best" may no longer be enough.

Anderson

The Pack or Troop Committee meets WITH the COR (Chartered Organization Representative). If the decision is made by said Committee AND the COR understands and agrees with this decision, the COR, ONLY, has the authority to release an adult leader volunteer.

Our Troop uses an erasable calendar (we also start after summer camp, usually in August). By the time I put up school, church, District, Council, National, OA, and holiday dates, there's really very few to choose from. As the SM, I do set up this calendar. It gets the process started, and the PLC comes up with locations and associated themes for the camp outs. The PLC runs them past the Committee who will usually support the PLC's plan, but may offer input based on something we may all have forgotten. It's a team effort, and I try to keep it as simple as possible. This works for us.

Le Voyageur,

Will do. Those are new places to me. I'll look 'em up. Are you on Staff at Blue Ridge this summer? I'll touch base with you then.

Thanks,

sst3rd

So Dan,

You're getting ready to discuss this with the Scoutmaster????!!!! Are you ready to become the new Scoutmaster????!!!

Seriously, allow the Scoutmaster the opportunity to review with you how the Troop's program planning is currently done.

In our Troop, the monthly program theme provided by the BSA is offered, but usually is not used. I've collected years of these "Program Helps," and I've seen where they tend to be rotated every couple of years by the BSA. However, because I have so many of these themes collected, there's usually a general theme that we use about every other PLC meeting. Camping, cooking, engineering, winter camping, sports, conservation, first aid, etc.; these never go out of style, but the Scouts also come up with their own unique themes as well. Give the PLC the flexibility to remind them that this is THEIR program, and are responsible for it.

Be careful.....

A problem I've run into with our Pack, are adult leaders who are not trained on how to use a Den Chief. I might send the Den Chief to District leadership training, but if the Pack adult leaders don't know what to do with him, they tend to dump everything on him. Obviously, the Den Chief doesn't last very long.

This sounds like a topic covered before, but it's an important one. Having taken Basic many years ago, I remember being told to encourage the parent(s) NOT to use Scouting as a "grounding" tool (and that there were plenty of other tools to use). For all the reasons mentioned, this can be good or bad. However, as a Scoutmaster, I have a problem when the Scout is grounded, and he is a leader in the Troop. I do remind the parent(s) that when the Scout is grounded and can't attend Scouting functions, he is an ineffective leader. Based on that Scout's position and the duration of the grounding, the Scout can be replaced. All of our youth leaders are told this as they are taking their leadership training.

Le Voyegeur,

You bring up great points in floating the James. Our Troop was camping down from Hopewell at Sherwood Forest (home of John Tyler), and I realized that our Scouts were not used to canoeing on a "moving" river. They weren't used to the tide coming and going, nor have they seen ships so close up. I gave them some pointers, as they were only going to fish near the shore. I always bring up the story of temporarily losing two older Scouts, several years ago, at this very spot. They were inexperienced canoeist on the river, and were quickly swept up river towards Hopewell. I had a motorboat, and found them about a mile from camp. One was paddling, and the other was exhausted. They were actually loosing ground to the river. Lessons were learned.

I hope I don't get too far off this thread, but here goes. Our Council has a fairly large camp. The facilities were adequate, but not much more so. Our Troop has done lots of service out at this camp (outside of the three OA work weekend Ordeals). The one building that had heat and electricity, was the administration building. Every January (after the holidays), our Troop had a Merit Badge Weekend. There are bunk beds in several rooms perfect for the Scouts and Scouters (separately of course). Our concentration was on the merit badge programs, and we didn't have to worry about cooking, tents, tarps, etc.. As a Scout Leader, I saw nothing wrong with this special event, and it became traditional. The Scouts looked forward to it every year. You guessed it. Someone at the Council took offense for some reason, and immediately made the admin building off limits to Scout Troops. I was told that Troops don't camp that way. Yet, OA Staff adults still use it, training Staffs still use it, "special" Explorer Posts and Venture Crews use it, and other "special" folks. You bet I said something. I feel if I work my butt off at that camp, the Troops have as much right to reserve and use Council Camp facilities, as anyone else. We're all part of Scouting. We always left the building in better shape than we found it, but that didn't matter. Now that our Council has put lots of money into the Council Camp, they've created a separate Cub Camp, so that the original camp can be Boy Scout only. I'm aware that exceptions will be allowed (yeah, for the right people). I've had a great relationship with the Ranger for years, and he informs me that things will become even more restrictive. I've helped the camp build a new COPE course, rifle range, skeet range, and lots more, but I've been told that these facilities will only be used during the eight weeks of summer camp. There's a long history of our Troop not attending our home camp, so there is definitely some tension in my relationship with the Council. I will continue to push opening up these facilities for all Scout groups, of course, with the proper certifications. But, after I pushed what the certifications were, I was told that the Council hadn't made up their mind yet, what the qualifications will be, and again told that the facilities would be open during summer camp, and that I ought to bring our Troop (the Scouts decide from several camps in the mid-Atlantic area). I keep hearing of all of the "support" that the Council is supposed to be providing its Scouting groups, but they've locked up the most important one, the Council's camp and associated resources.

anderson

Our Roundtables are executed by our District Roundtable Staff. Most of these folks are unit leaders of some sort. Staff members come and go, but the quality of the Roundtable program has been high for some time. They follow the monthly themes as outlined in the Program Helps documentation, which is supposed to be supported by articles in the Scouting and Boy's Life magazines (of course a month in advance). We unit leaders attend a formal opening, then an announcement session. This is followed by a breakout session pertaining to the monthly theme. We are encouraged to bring Troop youth Staff, but few show up (the old "one night a week" is enough excuse). Attending unit leaders get all information to the Troop leadership (both adult and youth). The program is as fun as it can get. The Boy Scout program IS fundmentally different than the Cub Scouts. We can hear them all evening in the next room.

I assume that the SM and CC are taking training as a refresher instead of this being their first training in 40 years. It's a good thing. For them to continue to run the Troop the way that it's always been run, is in direct conflict with the program. Again, Bob's words are right on. I'm probably one of those old stubborn Scoutmasters, but I've moved on with the program as it has changed. I haven't agreed with all of the changes, but I take care of my primary responsibilities of training the youth leadership to execute the program as presented by the BSA. It is a flexible program in that it has lots of room for adaptation caused by the Troop's location and personnel. If the old SM believes so highly in hiking, so be it. But if the Scouts want to bike and swim, it's his reponsibility to provide the support (through the Committee, ASM's, etc.).

As I've grown older, there are things I just can't do anymore, but it doesn't stop me from providing the trained adult leadership to do the things the Scouts want to do. It is so important for the Scouts to see that this is their program. It is the only one like it.

If the old Scoutmaster can't see the writing on the wall, he's older than I think. If I saw a bunch of experienced, excited, and trained adult leaders coming up soon, I would feel blessed, not threatened. Do what you have to do !!!!!!! It's for the Scouts.

Unless they are part of a Troop or Patrol program, District event, or camp out program, new Scouts should not be counseled toward merit badges until they attain the rank of First Class. That's where their priorities need to be. I believe that Bob White will bring up the "First Class in the First Year" program (or whatever it's called). This is a proven goal. It still works for us.

High adventure is the usual answer to older Scouts that are bored with their Troop's standard trips. If these older Scouts are 16 or 17 years of age, an interview with the Scoutmaster can get them a position as a Junior Assistant Scoutmaster. These duties are anything an adult Assistant Scoutmaster does, and that can include just about anything based on the needs of that specific Troop's program, and what this Scout would like to do. That's just one possibility for a Scout who doesn't want to leave the program but doesn't care to do high adventure. There's much more.....

Anderson

Le Voyageur,

Will do. I hope to get back into leading the high adventure group of our Troop next year (no one else wants to do it). I tend to do that on alternating years. I want to know more about your canoeing program. I'm training my base camp replacement this year.

Looking forward to the trip as always,,

sst3rd

Youngblood,

I guess you had to get that "gay hater" thing in there somehow. It's a non-issue with our Troop. It's not part of the program. We don't train our youth leaders in it, and our Scouts have never been accused of it. We would have heard.

As a Scout leader in a community with lots of youth, I would like to see a variety of national ads for Scouting. No one expects it to counter the mass media or a poor Scout program. Our Troop has a great program, but it's hard to get the message out. We do lots of community service so they know we're here. Our leaders are trained. We have a great meeting facility. We do Open Houses every fall and put ads in the community papers (our Pack stinks, but we're still working those issues). I will admit, that we live in a very diversified community. With a majority of the community now consisting of minorities, we need a national campaign to raise awareness of the Scouting program for EVERYONE !!! A lot of our problem is just getting to show the program. A lot of the problem is cultural. A focused targeted series of national promos would be great, and help us get the word out. As it stands now, we simply can't compete. Our Scouts do promote their program, but there is still so much that they can do. Come on National, we're not looking for a hand out, we're looking for a hand up (sorry, I just couldn't resist).

Le Voyageur,

Our Troop has been attending Blue Ridge camps for years. We're from a nearby council whose camp is growing and growing, but has just never impressed me. Since the Blue Ridge camps have had such excellent programs for years, our Scouts expect to go. We've also been to Camp Shenandoah and Camp Daniel Boone. Good programs, but we wind up coming back to Camp Powhatan or Camp Ottari. We've participated in most of the offered programs, and they've all been outstanding.

As I've stated before in another thread, I'm jealous at all of the conversations concerning drop out rates from graduating Webolos. Our Troop has an outstanding program. Has for years. Unfortunately, our associated Pack has had an inconsistent program (and I'm being nice) and lack of trained leadership, except for the lady running the show. All appropriate procedures are being worked, but the Troop won't receive any benifit for a couple of years if then. We do lots of recruitment around the community. A national kick-butt ongoing promotional campaign would support our efforts. As stated by others, if we can just get them in the door, they'll like it. For a youth, it's just that first step..........

To All,

Fantastic conversations. I live on the east coast, but I'm a major Packers fan (I really don't know how that happened). Mr. White; as my comments about written policies not being forwarded to units concerning gay Scout leaders, I realize that it is policy. But the action happens at the unit level, and without documentation, it's just another "unwritten" policy. As far as "unit options," no, it will never happen on an official basis (much less receiving anything in writing), however, it has been in existence for at least the 35 years that I've been involved. You can say it's not there, but it is, and it works.

All very interesting comments, but as in all other threads of the same nature, it's all repeats. No opinions have been changed. Again mentioned, is unit option. Unit option already exists, and has been utilized for many years. As a long time Scoutmaster, I, the CC, nor the COR, have of yet to receive in writing, any policy (new, amended, or otherwise) concerning gay leadership being rejected. I continue to review the adult application, and I still don't see any mention of rejecting gay leadership (or to be on the look out for it). A "policy" has never been discussed at the many levels of training that I've been involved in, nor have I heard it mentioned at Roundtables, District, or Council meetings. The few times I've ever heard it discussed among Scout leaders, was the fact that it is a "none" issue in the Troops. There it should stay.

I certainly respect those countries that have taken their Scouting programs co-ed. The United States, in my opinion, is unique in so many ways. It is so diversified across the board. As has been stated on many other threads, a lot of the volunteers that support the Troops, no longer have sons in Scouting. This is a tremendous amount of experience and knowledge that I think would leave Scouting if it went co-ed. I can't break it all down and give you specific reasons. I just think that the positive and traditional "character" of the program would change to a degree that the male Scouts would lose a program that they deserve to have exclusively. I feel that having the co-ed Venture/Explorer programs are enough, and as has been stated (I'm sure) so many times before, the Girl Scout program should satisfy all of the needs of the girls, and where it does not, their parents need to get involved in such a way as to take that program in that direction. So, in case there was any question in your mind, I don't want co-ed Scouting in the BSA anymore then the current available programs.

Anderson

"Cool" for and 11 or 12 year old, is completely different then for a 13 or 14 year old, or a 15, 16, 17 year old. I think LongHaul's two definitions of "cool" cover's most of it. Being accepted by your peers is very important for this age range. Fun activities can be anything from a "fishing" theme camp out, to any number of high adventure activities. Scouting provides the opportunity for the Scouts to choose and plan these activities (with guidance from adult leaders who are trained in the parameters of BSA acceptability). These activities are usually not available to the Scout, without Scouting. That's what makes Scouting so unique. Older Scouts like to be leaders. Younger Scouts like to be accepted, and part of a winning team (an active, challenging, and organized Patrol). If the Patrol method is used successfully, there are almost no limits. "Cool" is being able to answer the question from a non Scout friend, as to what he did over the weekend, and know that it really was something "cool."

Anderson

I guess it was bound to happen. After twenty odd years, our Troop's six Patrol mess kits have lost their tops. That's right. The larger of the two frying pans in the kit, that caps off the top of the mess kit and makes it complete. Our Troop recently cleaned up our gear storeroom in hopes of finding these missing pans, but of no use.

The only way I can describe these kits, is that they are 8 - Scout heavy aluminum standard kits we use for our Troop's base camping.

Does anybody no of a supplier that might have these parts? Any help or ideas would be most appreciative. Even without these tops, these kits will continue to be used.

Thanks,,,,,,,

sst3rd

Categories and labels. It's never that simple. If any of this STUFF makes it to the Packs and Troops, programs will be folding in mass. I haven't had to defend this policy (I still haven't seen this in writing) of excluding gays. It never comes up. The Mormons taking over the BSA ? Money, power, dictatorship ?????!!!!! This hasn't affected the ground level programs of the Packs and Troops (at least in this area). And if it ever did, again, programs will fold. There is a lot of flexibility in the Scouting program, that allows different paths to the same goal. There has been unit choice in adult leadership for years, if not from the very beginning. I've never been accused of being a member of a hate group, or anything similar. Where do you people get this? Tell me where you live so I can avoid that part of the country. I'm still trying to find, in all of my years of training, the manual that shows me how to teach this "terrible lesson" you're refering to. You folks are really trying to create something that simply doesn't exist, except maybe in your own heads. Everything I've read concerning these issues, are repeats that I've long tired of seeing. Nothing new is being presented, because everyone is talking the same old arguments. I'm done.